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Author
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Topic: Variables that contribute to success or lead to failure
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 27, 2007 11:50 AM
It's interesting to read all the opinions one can get on different topics discussed on these coyote calling forums.
Many times you will find successful coyote hunters that totally disagree on certain methodology but you seldom read the disclaimers relating to their specific areas that would explain the differences in their opinions.
Topics such as the importance of camoflauge, how long to stay on a stand, calling with or against the wind, continuous calling or intermittant calling (sp?), what you can get away with for movement, the value of howling, etc. etc.
For the novice caller, and the calling editors with limited experience looking for something original to write about, it can really be quite difficult to sort out the value in the information without referencing the variables associated with that information.
In this thread, I'd like to list many of these variables that affect coyote calling methodology from one area to the next in no particular order.
1. Coyote population in a given area.
2. The ratio of adult coyotes to juveniles (population dynamics).
3. Geography.
4. Habitat.
5. Calling pressure.
6. Human disturbance which would include various hunting seasons.
7. Weather / air density / wind / temperature
8. Time of year
9. Quality of sounds being elicited
10. Calling coyotes from within their territories as opposed to calling them towards sources of danger.
11. Prey availability
I just listed 11 individual variables that affect coyote calling success so consider all the combinations of those variables you could conceivably have and you start to realize why there is seldom consistancy in calling techniques from one area to the next.
The value of understanding these variables is to consider their application when receiving an answer for a question you may have asked so the answers you receive have more value.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 27, 2007 07:54 PM
I got to thinking awhile back[from what I recall] I've seen. Is the vast majority of coyotes out "hunting". Were traveling across or quartering the wind.
I would estimate mild pressure[from man] in my area. The main negative factor's in my area are;
Small land sections[mostly 1-sq. mile]
Little to no ground cover[especially Winter snowfly]
These small sections, allow the coyotes to see & hear most everything, that pose's a potential/real threat.
Whether a person, stalks in for a call set or stalk hunting. They'll hear/see you most of the time. Not to mention your vehicle moving/stopping a mile away.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 27, 2007 08:08 PM
2 dogs,
No question that the situation you just described requires a different strategy. That's where it's nice to work in team effort with radio communication between hunters. If one hunter gets directly upwind of those coyotes, they'll generally run straight downwind to an eagerly awaiting partner. Some things about coyote behavior can be quite predictable.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 27, 2007 08:20 PM
10-4 Wiley. I know of what you say.
I hunt alone the majority of the time. Unless I have a wingman, which is rare.
The majority of the coyotes in my area. Hear & watch every vehicle from afar. If that vehicle slows, they raise their head. If that vehicle stops, even behind a hill. They'll stretch their head/neck forward staring hard...There ready to leave.
I see them as dots on the snow from afar. I can most of the time, tell driving slowly by them, whether their head is up. If it's up, I keep moving. Then I'll view them from another angle from atop of a distant hill.
I'll then drive around their entire section, looking for all landmarks, hills, valleys, structures, ect. Making my plan as I go.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 27, 2007 08:27 PM
http://www.hunt101.com/img/468601-big.jpg
Head down, pushing 1/2 mile away. Both pics zoomed on 6X. They both seen me, before I seen them.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 28, 2007 04:46 AM
More unknowns;
When I see a coyote on the move, I assume it's hunting[still hungry]. I realize they move for many reasons, not just looking for food. But when I see them walking, their always putting their nose to the ground. Et panning around, looking/listening.
"hunger" continued;
Two of the coyotes I knew[one had a squirrel treed over a hill from me] or seen that were "hunting". Were called in the "closest" to me. I've tried calling some that were balled-up, after I stalked in. They either walked away, ran away. Or loped on by, from way out there looking my way.
Most of them are bedded. Pre-Sunrise, until around 10-11am before they'll bed down for the day. Rarely any movers after 12:00 noon.
The ones that are bedded, I don't believe are all that hungry. If they were, wouldn't they still be hunting. Hunger, is a powerfull force to overcome.
If hunger is not the driving factor in calling a coyote towards you. Then you are playing hit & miss, as to what makes them interested. IE: Territorial, curious, seeking a mate, ect.
[ January 28, 2007, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 28, 2007 06:55 AM
2 dogs,
You have a pretty good understanding of your coyotes.
The buddy system would work wonders in your situation.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 28, 2007 09:19 AM
2dogs,
I have about 4-5 spots that sounds like most of your hunting area. heavy pressure from all the ranchers, greyhound guys and goverment ADC shotgunner's from planes and helicoppter's....
These places have one brushy draw and are mile squares..
I only go to these spots when I can have someone drop me off and then drive on. Usually my brothers old rattle trap diesel...you can hear it coming for miles....
I sneak in and setup.
The coyotes thinks the danger has gone will tend to respond better.
Regards
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 28, 2007 11:34 AM
Kelly,
Bro & I have done the same thing. Works pretty well. Bro is a pretty fair shot[much better with a revolver]. But try's to hard on the coyotes. I always bust a gut, when he's my wingman.
I learned that manuver years ago. By myself, spotted one laying a tad over a 1/4 mile. He was eyeing me as I drove by slowly. I underestimated this one. I slowed down, shut the ignition off.
Coasted down hill a couple hundred yrds farther away. Et slowly/quietly stopped behind the 1st high road bank. I waited 10 minutes or so. To put him @ ease. Quietly got out, et slinked up the ditch & into the field. Next, I see the coyote around 1/2 mile away. Looking my way over it's shoulder. I do believe he had his tongue sticking out @ me ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
I haven't tried that since.
[ January 28, 2007, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 28, 2007 11:36 AM
Moral of the story;
Coyote didn't see my truck pass on by the high bank. Coyote, figured something bad was coming, gone.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 28, 2007 12:53 PM
"Coyote didn't see my truck pass on by the high bank. Coyote, figured something bad was coming, gone."
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Keep on talkin' 2dogs, you almost got me believen' ya. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 28, 2007 03:51 PM
Rich C.,
Most coyotes, as long as I don't "stop" or slow down abruply. Will follow my truck for quite aways. I'll generally go "atleast" another 1/4 mile on past the coyote. Sometimes farther while watching them, to see if they raise their head or move.
They no doubt are very cautious of vehicles. But drop their guard around farm tractors. That dusky Black coyote, I posted a pic of. My Bro & I are holding.
Seen him, following a tractor in a hayfield moving bales 5/8 mile out. Coyote was hunting, et very close behind the tractor.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 28, 2007 05:05 PM
Simple solution 2dogs, .......time to invest in a tractor! Take it one step further, invest in a tractor that has a cab and heater
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted January 28, 2007 05:14 PM
The main problem in my situation. Is my inabilities.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 28, 2007 05:20 PM
2dogs,
I know that coyotes hear my truck slow down and stop on the rock roads, so I have no doubt that they will be wary of that sound. I just doubt that they have enough brains to watch to see if your truck came out on the other side of the cut. I think your coyote in that scenario simply heard your truck stop. Just my opinion.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 28, 2007 05:22 PM
TRnCO,
I think that I will record the sound of a tractor pulling a plow or something. I could play it loudly as I drive through the fields toward my calling stands.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 28, 2007 05:27 PM
When we have a coyote sitting or laying down and watches the vehicle, we send in a shooter from the oppisite direction.
On one occasion we had a coyote laying on a hillside in some corn stalks. We sent in a shooter from down wind into the corn stubble, while the shooter was walking towards the coyote i kept an eye on the coyote and the coyote did the same to me. The shooter had his radio turned off and he walked past the coyote and the coyote just laid there. The shooter got to the end of the field and turned on his radio and asked where was the coyote, I told him that he missed the coyote by 50-75 yards and walked past him.. The shooter heads back into the field and this time has his radio on, when he was straight west of the coyote i stopped him and told him to look straight east and out 50 yards or so.. The shooter could not see it so he started walking east and finaly jumped the coyote and got him on the second shot... That was one cool custumer..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 28, 2007 05:32 PM
Man, what an idea Rich!! You could even go as far as hooking it up to your horn button, and then while your driving in, just push the horn button and your truck sound all of a sudden is a tractor!! Of course, don't forget to unhook the horn! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 28, 2007 05:44 PM
TRnCO,
Unhook my horn and connect the horn button to recording of a loud tractor? Now THAT would work on coyotes, and double as a warning blast for city driving as well. I might just do that.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 28, 2007 06:50 PM
I believe that coyote did hear me stop, Rich C. But they also have heard & seen me stop farther down the road. Et went from alert to stand down.
So I'm convinced on "that coyote" anyway.
That it reacted that I stopped close by. Two cues;
1. Coyote didn't see my truck pass the hill.
2. Coyote heard me stop.
Dodge make tractors?
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 29, 2007 03:52 AM
Camo;
I've worn all White, including my rifle being taped or sprayed White. I've had coyotes pick me out prone on the snow, crawling & while motionless.
One guy suggested my "Whites" were not the same White hue, as the snow. That is correct. Due to washing with detergent.
However, The snow in my hunt area is often shaded by picked crops, Sun angle, wind blown dirt, ect.
I believe, they see the movement [my White on the snow's White]. As well as the off colored motionlesss mass of, off White on the snow.
I've crawled to the top of my hill, on sleeping coyotes across the valley. Also past the top of my hill[not skylined].
I've had some slowly raise their head & pan around. Some of these coyotes stopped panning. Only to focus hard on my white mass, from afar. I know these coyotes, didn't hear me. So I concluded, they seen my mass. That caused them some alarm.
I can make out my White camo'd Bro, over 1/2 mile away on a snow covered background. Even when he's motionless. Why couldn't a coyote. I say they can.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 29, 2007 04:08 AM
Further;
Right after a coyote beds down. They'll pan around mostly 180 degrees, sometimes 360. They'll do this for quite awhile. Before laying their head down & tucking it into their tail area.
I believe, not only they are looking for any threats, food, ect. But are taking in a mental image of everything around them.
Some coyotes will repeatidly lay in the same focal area. I believe not only do they feel safety in these "repeated areas". But also know the lay of the land & can detect. A new foreign object in the area.
"Nomads" will do this also, when tresspassing. But rarely sleep very long or heavy, often panning for threats.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 29, 2007 08:24 AM
Rich, I don`t believe a coyote has the ability to reason but I will say that I`ve experienced what 2dogs mentioned about the truck stopping behind a hill. We overcame the problem by slowing enough for someone to bail out & start walking to a good calling location while the truck went on to another short calling stand in another area, nowadays I just don`t mess with that sort of thing at all, getting old & time is somewhat of a precious commodity.
Back to Scotts original post, all of those things overlap each other in some way or other & most of them could be broken down into several different sub-catagories which, when you think about it, makes it somewhat of a science that the average recreational caller may never really understand in depth, but that wont stop me from trying.
Scott, one thing that I`ve been paying attention to in recent years, that has been discussed here & there on these boards is moon phase, I have no scientific proof but in the short while that I`ve payed atten. it seems as though it has a huge effect on calling success, not just at night but especially in the daytime. With the exception of calling under a full moon at night on snow WITHOUT a light, I`ve found that my #s go down during a full moon, for reasons that I feel are obvious. I`ve even noticed on the boards that when folks are complaining about lack of calling success that SOMETIMES it coincides with a full moon.
I`m sure this is elementary stuff to those of you who have been calling for 30 years but I imagine there are a bunch of recreational callers who could benifit from discussing a few of these variables, myself included, I`ve been calling for roughly 20 years, recreational calling of course, & I would like to discuss in depth some of these variables, it never hurts to discover what you think you already know.
If we could keep the thread on track, it would be a great benefit to hear what the old pro`s have to say about some of these variables & how they use them to their advantage.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 29, 2007 08:41 AM
Reasoning;
I have no doubts a coyote can't/doesn't do that. Some say "learned behavior" Samo...samo IMB.
A coyote "reasons", a possible threat when a vehicle slows or stops. Same coyote, chases a rabbit into a brushpile. Coyote circles that brushpile[reasoning the rabbit may bolt out of the other side]. Or he/she may be able to reach in & grab the rabbit.
Coyote being pursued "close" by hounds[their on his rump]; coyote will jump a fence rather than go through. Reasoning; It's quicker. Same coyote non-pursued, slowly go's through or under a fence. Reasoning; non-threatened.
Domestic dogs, can reason. Why not coyotes.
In our group of sighthounds. Their was one dog specifically. If he seen a Jackrabbit start to loop wide. He'd break from the pack, et cut the rabbit's angle.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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