|
Author
|
Topic: Coyote vs. Badger?
|
JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
|
posted October 02, 2008 04:03 PM
I wanted to share this picture with everybody. One of my trail cameras took this picture and I thought was it a neat picture
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted October 02, 2008 04:28 PM
Awesome photo, Jeremy. I doubt that it was a "versus" encounter though. Many reports of a symbiotic relationship between those two little guys. National Geographic aired a program that showed a badger and a coyote co-operatively working a prairie dog town. Camanzind described the same in one of his study reports. Many ****** tribes reported a working relationship between the two. J. Frank Dobie printed an illustration of a pre-Columbian Casas Grandes pot from Chihuahua, Mexico that featured a badger's head on one side and a coyotes head on the other, both in bas-relief.
The Mexican name for the badger is Tlalcoyote which means earth coyote or coyote that lives in the ground.
I've never seen a coyote and a badger together. I would absolutely sell Tim and Danny to the Gypsies for the chance to see that.
IP: Logged
|
|
rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
|
posted October 02, 2008 05:07 PM
That's a great pic, Jeremy. And a neat little narrative Rich. (What kinda ******* were those?)
The Badger has his head down, but the Coyote sure doesn't appear too worried.
Very cool!
--------------------
- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted October 02, 2008 05:52 PM
Dobie doesn't say, but states that it is believed to have been fashioned over a thousand years ago. The Navajo have many tales of the relationship between the coyote and the badger. That's probably an organizational meeting between the two in preparation for the night's hunt.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
|
posted October 02, 2008 05:58 PM
That coyote is just trying to help a one eyed badger get a drink of water.
--------------------
Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted October 02, 2008 06:23 PM
A coyote is what he is, so you never really know what is going on in that pointy little skull of his. If badger doesn't pony up dinner for coyote he may find an apple in his own mouth. I'll ask Gary to post a dandy pic that he took and the story that goes with it.
IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
|
posted October 02, 2008 06:56 PM
Very cool Great catch Jeremy.
--------------------
Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
|
posted October 02, 2008 07:16 PM
Thats interesting rich, I didn't know that.
A good friend of mine saw 2 badgers and few swift fox standing off this summer. I don't think he ever saw the outcome but I would imagine the badger was trying to get the swift?
[ October 02, 2008, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: JeremyKS ]
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted October 02, 2008 09:20 PM
As far as Kit versus Badger, the kit Fox lives in a mounded hole, a lot like what the badger digs into for rodents. Could have been a homestead issue, but they would have no chance against an aggressive badger pair.
I saw a video clip some time ago of a confrontation between a badger and a lion, over a kill. I don't remember what it was that they were fighting over, or who killed it, but the badger drove off the lion.
Tell you what, there is almost nothing to grab a hold of, on a badger. The trickster probably gets a few squirrels the badger misses, but I do not think a coyote or a pair of coyotes could do much, (if any) harm to an adult badger.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
|
posted October 03, 2008 03:33 PM
I think badger is espanol is "tejon". I think.?
Very cool picture Jeremy. That badger seems almighty tall for a calm badger. Looks like he's standing on his tippy toes to me.
I shot a badger from close range once and only managed to rip open the under-side of the belly. HOLY SMOKES!!! I've never in my life heard a more ferocious screaming and growling as that critter jumped around in circles biting at his wound. Scary stuff!!! They look about as fast as a sloth but I bet he'd be almighty quick and scrappy fighting a critter his own size.
--------------------
I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
|
posted October 03, 2008 03:40 PM
The symbiotic relation is this, the badger does the work and the coyote, being the ultimate opportunist, takes advantage of the badger's work. The Coyote can't hurt the badger and the badger can't catch the coyote. The coyote follows the badger looking for the easy meal that results when the badger's digging pushes a rodent from a different hole than the one the badger is digging down. The badger is only slightly annoyed by the coyote's presence but mostly ignores the coyote and goes about it's business. That's the symbiotic relation between the badger and coyote. Follow them sometime and you'll see.
~SH~
[ October 03, 2008, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
|
posted October 03, 2008 05:07 PM
A couple summers back, we were sitting on my Dad's deck and noticed a barn cat out in the field prowling for a ground squirrel or mouse. Dad said that particular cat hunted the field often.
A bit later we noticed the cat lugging a large ground squirrel back to the house. Suddenly out of the tall grass on the edge of the field a coyote came swooping in on the cat. The cat ran like hell for the nearest tree, but the coyote was gaining way too fast. Finally the cat dumped the squirrel which the coyote promptly grabbed and headed back into the timber with. From the way this played out, it almost appeared as if the coyote knew the cat would drop the squirrel, and live to catch more for the coyote to steal without a fight.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted October 03, 2008 05:16 PM
Scott, ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
did you write this one?
"Such a relationship between different species that benefits both is called mutualism. According to some, a different kind of dog—a coyote—teams up in such a relationship with a badger. The coyote's keen sense of smell and the badger's unrivaled ability as a digger are viewed as ready-made for partnership. According to this belief, the coyote locates inhabited rodent burrows, and the badger moves in to do the heavy earth moving, with the pair sharing the bounty. Others are more skeptical, believing that the cunning coyote has learned that trailing along behind a badger may reap rich rewards. As a badger roots out its hapless prey, a window of opportunity may open for the coyote—to snatch away dinner. Thus there may actually be two victims—the rodent who loses its life and the badger who loses a meal. Mutualism? Or thievery?"
IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted October 03, 2008 06:18 PM
Yeah right, mutualism.
Same as when a coyote follows a tractor, catching squirrels the tractor misses. Interesting to note that archeologists have dug up pottery with a tractor on one side and a coyote on the other, which proves the close working relationship between the two species.
I think folks are putting too much into cooperation between coyotes and badgers. Evolution by now would have provided the coyote born in mixed litters.
Yeah, it has happened, but probably not as romantic as some would have us believe.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted October 03, 2008 07:05 PM
Killjoy
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted October 03, 2008 07:06 PM
Er, ... I mean,... how interesting. I couldn't agree more.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted October 03, 2008 10:13 PM
Lance, you should run for public office.
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
|
posted October 04, 2008 04:40 AM
Leonard: "...archeologists have dug up pottery with a tractor on one side and a coyote on the other.."
LMAO! TOUCHE!
My thoughts exactly!
Reminds me of those pictures that were circulating of the mule "supposedly" attacking the mountain lion as the lion dogs casually observe. Give me a break!
The mule simply got tired of packing the dead lion and took it's frustrations out on the dead lion. As if a mule could catch and kill a lion and as if a pack of lion dogs would simply sit there and watch. Even guys that should know better don't stop to think.
Can you picture a mule chasing a lion through the timber and rocks? LOL!
Sensationalism!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted October 04, 2008 06:10 PM
Doubting Thomas's and Heathens, read this.
If it is print it MUST be true.
"This is an advantageous partnership for both animals because they benefit from each other’s strengths. The coyote has highly acute eyesight and badgers are extremely efficient diggers. The short term relationship these two species have for hunting persists because the morphological adaptations of the coyote and the badger are complementary to hunting small mammals such as ground squirrels. Current research suggests this relationship is mutualistic because benefits received from the relationship for both species are more beneficial than the costs of maintaining the relationship (Minta et al. 1992). "
"Abstract
Coyotes (Canis latrans) associating with badgers (Taxidea taxus) appeared to hunt Uinta ground squirrels (Spermophilus armatus) more effectively than lone coyotes. Coyotes with badgers consumed prey at higher rates (P = 0.09) and had an expanded habitat base and lower locomotion costs. Badgers with coyotes spent more time below ground and active (P = 0.02), and probably had decreased locomotion and excavation costs. Overall, prey vulnerability appeared to increase when both carnivores hunted in partnership. Complementary morphological adaptations and predatory strategies, interspecific tolerance, and behavioral flexibility allowed them to form temporary hunting associations. The following ecological circumstances may have increased the likelihood of this interaction in our study area: relatively high densities of predators and prey; relatively long-lived predator populations; a vegetative structure that impeded solitary hunting by coyotes; a high connectivity of prey burrows that decreased hunting success of badgers; an absence of interaction with humans; a stressful physical environment. must must
IP: Logged
|
|
Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
|
posted October 05, 2008 07:01 AM
Here's something to ponder, if the badger / coyote relation is "mutually beneficial", why don't you see the badger following the coyote instead of the coyote following the badger?
CONDITIONED RESPONSE!
Coyotes associate badgers with easy meals and easy holes.
Coyotes associate p. dog hunters with easy meals.
Could it be said that p. dog hunters and coyotes have a "symbiotic" relation or is that another CONDITIONED RESPONSE?
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted October 05, 2008 07:49 AM
Ok;
"Coyotes associate badgers with......"
"Coyotes associate p. dog hunters with......"
Several more examples could be added up to & including the sound of a tractor at a dead pile.
Conditioned response. Makes sense.
But.......Is it possible that a simple 'conditioned response' starts with a rudimentary reasoning ability?? "Gunfire equals food".
From a coyote's point of view; "Truck is moving - safe / stay.
Truck is stopping - bad / run."
Is there a basic thought process going on here, or just instinctive 'fight or flight' actions??
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted October 05, 2008 07:55 AM
Wiley and Rich,
are all those words real or did you just make them up??? Jesus I got a headache just tryin to pronounce them let alone have any frickin idea of what half of them meant!!!LOL
Good Posts!!!!!
You do see coyotes and badgers going across the prairies alot and also eagles watching from overhead, diving in to steal whatever from whoever. Not that unusual to spot them on the dog towns when setting upon a stand overlooking a dogtown.
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
|
posted October 05, 2008 09:56 PM
Wiley,
Badgers don't follow coyotes or anything else because they are just like little women with bloated bellies and a bad case of PMS. Irrational, Uncooperative and ill tempered, and if you see either one coming towards you, you'd best just get out of it's way !
--------------------
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
|
posted October 06, 2008 08:47 AM
"The symbiotic relation is this, the badger does the work and the coyote, being the ultimate opportunist, takes advantage of the badger's work. ...Follow them sometime and you'll see."
I've witnessed this, twice - both times while shooting prairie dogs. And have seen badger and coyote in close proximity to one another two other times (both times from the truck, while driving between stands). I think the badgers would probably like to see the coyotes die in a fire, but since they can't make that happen, they just keep on going about their business and the coyotes keep on taking advantage where they can.
- DAA
--------------------
"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted October 08, 2008 10:41 PM
I just seen it happen two weeks ago and i would agree the badger is annoyed but can do nothing about it so he deals with it and keeps his nose to the grinding wheel. The national geographic version of them carrying on a conversation while hunting together is just untterly ridiculous
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
