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Author
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Topic: What are the odd's
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2007 02:08 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Norm
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Member # 240
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posted February 27, 2007 04:02 AM
Tell us how the new decoy works ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Carpe Diem
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2007 04:55 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted February 27, 2007 07:46 AM
Was one of the dogs in heat?
If not, then it must not have been an "ESTROUS" chirp huh? LOL!
No doubt it would call coyotes. Excited canines make this sound all the time. The question is, would it call coyotes any better than a coyote distress, pup distress, rabbit distress?
Might be a good changeup for places and times where other calls have been abused.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2007 08:20 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2007 08:25 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 27, 2007 09:36 AM
Well here we go again.....LOL
Its like the old joke: whats the mateing call of a blond? "I'm so drunk"
What does a brunett say? "is the blond gone yet"
Its all in the perseption and since there is NO scientific backing either way, it is at this time, in how its percived. I and others like me aren't saying that "THIS IS HOW THE COYOTE IS THINKING", we are saying that this is how we percive this sound to work.
In trying to understand how a sound can evoke such strong responces from not just a single coyote but, "It seems" all coyotes within earshot. Because this sound works outside of the "Mateing Season" with almost the same responce as durring does bring up more questions.
I think its arrogant to dismiss it as a "SEX" sound just because they respond to it in Sept.
Coyotes don't have the ability to reason, IE: "That can't be a coyote making that sound, that only happens in late Feb. and March", they simply hear this sound and it trips a primevil trigger to breed and make pups. Thats their job, the main reason for being.
Why does the hole group respond? well I belive the males are comming for the sex... (thats how men think),,,LOL,,, the females are comming to defend their territorial boundrys ( don't want a strange bitch in her backyard ). Does that not make sence? The rest of the coyotes that are showing up "I THINK" are like the support group,( Backup if you will). None of this is ritten in stone but it makes sence if you think about it. I don't know for sure that thats what the coyotes are thinking But in trying to explain whats going on to others so they can apply this sound. I have to explain it so others can understand what "I BELIVE TO BE HAPPENING" when this sound is used.
Poke fun if you will, I frankly don't care, This is just one thought, just the thoughts of a vetran coyote hunter, trapper, depradation specialist who's spent most of his life in hot persuite of coyotes, Remember this is not just how I see whats going on. There are some others who may right better and have a better way with words that agree at least partly with this train of thought.
Now, Before you start ripping my "THOUGHTS" apart, remember,we are still learning, Myself included, about this sound and how it works.
Maybe I'm not expressing my thoughts in the right way as I'm not a righter, but like I have said many times now, Through this train of thought I'm trying to help others apply this sound and as NONE OF US KNOW what a coyote thinks, we have to put it into terms that man can understand and this is what I have tried to do from the start...........!!!!!
Sue me if you think I'm misleading people with this thought. This realy ticks me off, you are poking fun at people who are contributing what they are seeing and what they understand to be happening to help others learn and gain confidance in a sound that works. Point blank! Quite frankly I'm insulted by your snikering and poking fun at the "original Concept thinkers"as you put it. That sure never came from one of our mouths, nun of us ever said or implied that we had an original concept, JUST A SOUND THAT EVOKES RESPONCE...............................
Now I'm finished..!!!!!!
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2007 10:39 AM
Sly.......ah, yes, you're a glutton for punishment. For sure. But, (surprise!) I admire that quality. Don't give up and don't back down. I don't know and I don't care who's right, but I do like to see the discussion and the ensuing debate.
Stand back, everybody.
Hell, it's probably all hugs and kisses, lately? Darn!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2007 11:20 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Melvin
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posted February 27, 2007 11:56 AM
Well,i'm not ashamed to say,i will back,Ronnie,Rich H,and Sly till hell freezes over on this subject.I know what i heard and know why the bitch coyote done it.She was excited and wanted bred.Oh!and don't try to argue with me because,i won't debate it.Why should i debate[argue]something i know with"know it alls"that know so little. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 27, 2007 12:14 PM
2dogs
I have been hunting coyotes for 37 years and untill last March I had never heard it or at least never recognised it as a coyote sound.
Untill last year I never payed any attention to this sound in my dogs either but I do now!
LB,
Yes, maybe you are right. I truly belive this sound to be valid and I will keep the path....How I inturprate this sound and relate it to others is all Scott is debating not the sound its self and I understand this. how I related it to the public makes sence and if you think about it, according to how "Man" thinks it works, since I don't know how a "coyote" thinks, all I have to go on is what I think and that is how I relate it to others.
The sound I'm using ain't the same as the sound bites that are going around and therefore not the same. The sound bites that I have heard, I belive to be "Excited Yips" and I don't think they are the same nor do they mean the same thing.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 27, 2007 01:00 PM
Sly,
Interesting Theory. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted February 27, 2007 08:17 PM
Is this thread going to be another 64 pager on the same subject? Not that it makes any difference to me. I could care less if you call coyotes by painting your ass purple & barking at the moon on the stroke of midnight.....whatever works.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted February 28, 2007 05:19 AM
quote:
Sly: "I have been hunting coyotes for 37 years and untill last March I had never heard it or at least never recognised it as a coyote sound."
So with that in mind, do you think you can tell the difference between the "excitement yip" of a coyote chasing prey and the "chirp" of a female coyote in heat?
1. Yes I can tell the difference.
2. No I cannot tell the difference.
Simple yes or no question!
If the answer is no, then how can you say............
quote:
Sly: "Why does the hole group respond? well I belive the males are comming for the sex... (thats how men think),,,LOL,,, the females are comming to defend their territorial boundrys ( don't want a strange bitch in her backyard )."
If the answer is no, then they could respond thinking there is something to kill. Right?
You want to go down the "sex" road to defend a concept that you want to believe. You admitted before that you didn't know why they respond and here you are again trying to tie their response to a sound you hadn't heard before last march, to sex.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THEY RESPOND SLY!
I don't care if you get ticked off. Misleading information ticks me off. Your opinion is no more valid than mine. I think it's misleading to assume to know why coyotes respond to this sound in particular.
Based on my 35 years of experience with 20 years of those year round predator control in association with many others who are also conducting year round predator control, I'll bet a coyotes' urge to kill is stronger than a coyote's urge to breed at most times of the year and I'll bet you can't tell the difference between the two sounds.
We know the term "estrous" is tied to breeding but these dogs are eliciting the same type of sound and they are fixed. How does that sit with your theory of the response being "sex" related.
Here's another thing for you to consider. We know that dogs and wolves can cross. We know that coyotes and dogs can cross. Let's say you have a female coyote in heat and a wolf comes across that female coyote. Now think hard about this Sly. Which wolf instinct do you think is stronger, the instinct to breed that coyote or the instinct to kill that coyote.
I know the answer, do you?
~SH~
[ February 28, 2007, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 28, 2007 05:57 AM
Maybe the wolf would screw the coyote to death and then we would all be right!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 28, 2007 06:05 AM
"Which wolf instinct do you think is stronger, the instinct to breed that coyote or the instinct to kill that coyote."
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I know the answer to that question. Wolf would breed her first and THEN go on and kill her.
Now THAT'S funny right up there.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
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posted February 28, 2007 06:11 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 28, 2007 06:12 AM
Sly, I think you're letting your emotions cloud your thinking.
quote:
Poke fun if you will, I frankly don't care,
Followed by
quote:
This realy ticks me off, you are poking fun at people-- Quite frankly I'm insulted by your snikering and poking fun
Scott. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
"Original concept thinkers" are responsible for the 100+ sounds currently on e-callers rather than the two original standards, cottontail and jackrabbit.
Do you believe J.R. Alcorn was an "original concept thinker" and if so do you regard him with contempt also? lol
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 28, 2007 07:13 AM
2dogs,
Coyote is the official canis Latrans language in the midwest. Crossbreeds get confused and stutter a lot.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Melvin
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Member # 634
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posted February 28, 2007 07:39 AM
LOL,Rich,When are you going to come out with the new stuttering howler
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 28, 2007 10:14 AM
Scott,
Here we go again with the cut and past war on words.
Yes I do think I can tell the difference as the two sounds are very different. I have heard the excited sounds of a coyote many huntreds of times but the one time I heard this "chirp" stands out in my mind vividly....
SH:Your opinion is no more valid than mine.
This is the key statement in your post, NO MORE VALID THAN MINE..... There is one difference between you and I, You play on peoples emotions. You insult people and then defend yourself with big words and back it with your cridentials, turn peoples words around and try to change their meanings to fit into your one way thinking... By using words like "MISLEADING", and by the way thats also just your "OPINION"and putting emphisis whare you want, you make what you think "SEEM" more valid than what others are thinking. What angers me is not your opinion, you have a right to that, you don't however have the right to belittle others to make yourself look good.
I don't have the ability to put into words my exact thoughts. I'm not a writer, nor am I a fool. I have said it MANY TIMES and I will say it once more. We all are learning. The way we learn is through what we see and expieriance.
This is what I know to be fact: In the 16 months that I have been aware of this sound, I have seen this sound used by a coyote 1 time, it was in fact a female. I have not witnessed a male make this sound, Fact. The female that made this sound evoked a responce from 2 different coyotes that Did fight when they approached this female,Fact. This sound was made by a female in March, fact. This female did show signs of being in heat,Fact.
The responces I've had from using this sound have produced 32 alpha males,9 alpha females, fact.(just coyotes killed) The responces from this sound have, not once evoked a responce from a SINGLE coyote, Fact. This sound has evoked responce from coyotes all times of year, Fact. This sound works on high pressured coyote populations, Fact. The sound that I'm using is different from a "Excited Yip", fact.( I do and can tell the difference) This sound works on coyotes that have made a positive ID on me and are leaving the country, FACT.
I can't explain why scientificaly, all I can do is explain why "I THINK" it works from my expieriance and thats what I've done. As you have STATED :" Your opinion is no more valid than mine.
I have to deduce from my expieriance in the field, what I belive to be going on and thats what I've done. So you don't agree, thats fine but don't belittle my observations and opinions to make yourself look good or justify your opinion.
Its aparent you take issue with the name that was given to this sound, once again I did not name this sound so quit making out like I did. After all many of the terms used to distinguish different sounds are misleading but thats the names thet were given them and thats how we sepperate them and identify the different sounds. Its just a name, lets not loose track of whats important, The sound and the responce it evokes.
There is a big difference between: I THINK AND I KNOW... I have said all along that I THINK this is whats going on. That is based on what I have seen, thats the ONLY FACT I have to go on {what I have seen).
You hate misleading information and "Your opinion is no more valid than mine".
Scott,: YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THEY RESPOND SLY!
At this time no one does and I only said: (ONCE AGAIN) I think this is whats going on. Thats from my observations. Its just what I think is going on and untill you have scientific backing to prove your opinion is right and mine is wrong, show me the same courtisy that I have shown you.
I may not agree with your opinion but I respect it and weather you agree with me or not I think you should respect my opinion also. I have no issue with your opinion and in fact there is merrit in your thoughts and views. There is also merrit in my thoughts and views also and you know it.
All fact,in the coyote world was at one time just an idea or thought, recerch has proven many things that were at one time opinion. It has also dispelled many myths. Time will tell.
I have another coyote to peal and a shop to clean. Good day
sly
[ February 28, 2007, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: slydog ]
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 28, 2007 10:56 AM
Seems like we will not get a link for this mysterious sound?
In regards to cross breeding canines (I am not a lawyer) and damned sure, not a biologist, either!
I seem to recall that a mule is the result of a specific cross breed between a horse and a donkey/burro, in which the male is the non horse.
Therefore, because of polish logic, I postulate that any cross between wolf and coyote woud be a very lost and lonely female wolf, in estrus, and a very horny male coyote who, as all horny males are: would screw anything that moves. A week earlier, or a few days later, outside of the window of opportunity, the female wolf might act more like a black widow spider and eat the poor guy!
OR. maybe it could happen like when we hear about a female dog that nurses a litter of kittens? Could even be a domestic wolf and wild coyote? Crossed pups escape?
Hard to say, but there are a number of possibilities, including feral dogs flaring in for a one nighter.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling, please excuse
[ February 28, 2007, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 28, 2007 11:01 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 28, 2007 11:04 AM
LB,
I have heard most of the sound bites that are floating around the internet and I have yet to hear one that sounds like what I whitnessed. To my knowledge no one has this sound recorded but I'm working on it as much as weather will allow.
I like your observations and you are funny as hell
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 28, 2007 11:40 AM
quote:
Therefore, because of polish logic, I postulate that any cross between wolf and coyote woud be a very lost and lonely female wolf, in estrus, and a very horny male coyote
Because of the social dynamics involved in hybridization among wolves and coyotes biologists believe that the the most common match up would be a female coyote and a male wolf. Also I think it was Theberge that said no self respecting wolf bitch would stand still for a scrawny little coyote.
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