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Author
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Topic: The Adaptive Coyote...
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 23, 2006 02:15 PM
Leonard,
Along the same line but utilizing a different strategy to meet their needs, I recall a method we used in my college/ raptor research days. We were studying great horned owls and attempting to develop an age determination model utilizing various measurements from hatchling- and nestling-aged juvenile owls. We had two groups of owlets - those that had been brought to our rehabilitation center and were at that time part of the foster parenting program, and wild birds that still resided in their familial nest. This helped us to assess and ascertain differences in growth rates between captive birds versus those on a wild diet, although we went over and beyond to approximate the nutritional content of a wild diet for our foster parented birds. The purpose of the study was to identify a means by which young great horns could be accurately aged so we could determine their approximate place in the behavioral development learning curve and where they were, agewise, relative to the critical period of social imprintation.
Anyway, one of the big hurdles we had to clear was being able to safely approach an owl's nest to measure the young. Owls are very aggressive in defending their nests and will attack you
without warning. That silent flight leads to some serious surprises because one second, you're on a ladder, and the next second, you have three pounds of whoop ass coming for your eyes. To manage this, and at the direction of another owl research facility in Nebraska, we created a safety suit consisting of welding leathers over our shoulder and down our arms, welding gloves for our hands, and a full face motorcycle helmet with a face shield on the front and large oversized eyes painted on the back. We would ladder the tree where the nest was found and tie it off from two different directions or more to keep it from falling. Whoever was going up would wear a safety harness and would re-tie himself to the ladder each time he took a step. A minimum of two spotters would postion themselves a short distance back from the tree and watch out for mama. If and when she came in, it was usually fast and determined. The spotters would call out to warn the guy taking measurements and banding the babies, and he would grab hold of the ladder and hug it tight with his head against the tree or as close as possible. It was really something to see those owls slam into those mock eyes, but they went for them almost every time. I learned then and there that eyes and eye contact do mean a great deal in the natural world and always kept contact to a minimum after that. Who knows if it matters, but I have raised my head and made contact with 'cats before and immediately had them arch their back, hiss, and back away from me. At distances, I agree, it's irrelevant.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted February 23, 2006 02:36 PM
The tiny northern pygmy owl has "fake" eyes on the back of it's head, in the feather pattern.
Even in nature, it's a plan that has some sort of merit?
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 23, 2006 05:21 PM
Would there be reason for concern, if that coyote on top of the page, was one hundred yards away from me and was staring directly into my 50mm and 20mm eyes? Think he'd bolt?
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 23, 2006 05:26 PM
Based on a few scenarios such as that, in my experience, I have to say no. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31480 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted February 24, 2006 06:47 AM
How about sun glasses, do they help or hurt when calling? In the past I've never worn them because I thought they would somehow keep me from seeing a coyote. This past weekend, with some snow on the ground, I wore a new pair of lightly tinted polorized clip on glasses from my optomitrist where I bought my new glasses. They have surprising clarity and the polorization and light tint on the snow made it very easy to see when I normally would have been squinting some because of the brightness.
Maybe it's just me but it almost seems like the polorization makes everything sharper?
Anyway, if it's bright tomorrow I'll probably wear them again. Like I said, they aren't dark tinted, more of a medium or light medium tint.
They might also keep me from "making eye contact" with the coyote?
later,
scruffy
[ February 24, 2006, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted February 24, 2006 10:11 AM
If you are calling Coyotes from a long distance and you are down behind the scope in shooting position. Is that not camo concept no matter what you are wearing. Flat out prone are humped up behind a set of sticks pretty well takes away the human outline. Camo is about taking away the human form from the Coyote.
I believe motion to be our worst enemy. After years of running bird dogs. I have seen them have hell finding me when there checking in as long as I am standing still. Take one step and they have you, and continue on hunting.
Now I admit I am part of the CCOC ( camo church of concealment). The main reason is the tight country I hunt. At times they are looking at me from cover less than 50 yards away. I am not down behind the rifle so I had better be "disappeared" as my buddies Billy Jake says. Because we have skeeters 365 days a year I wear the bug suit in the leaf cut pattern. The main reason I like it, is the huge hood. It blends the head and shoulders into one big blob. It also doesn't hurt that if the leaves on the bushes beside you are blowing in the wind. The leaves on you are blowing also. The hood on the Bug suit comes almost to the waste. This allows me to have my hand movement covered while calling.
It all boils down to what works for you. Even more important, what you think works for you.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 24, 2006 10:43 AM
I'll drink to that, Ronnie. Nothing worse for my motion control than skeeters, next is horseflies that like my ears. Netting is a solution that works on two different levels, breaking up the form, and keeping you from motion; swatting at insects.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31480 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 24, 2006 11:40 AM
Ronnie,
That head-on-shoulders form is what ghillie suits seek to eliminate, as is the case with your cammies. And is also what I think a lot of critters key onto. Up close, the eyes are very evident.
scruffy -
I've often wondered the same thing as to whether my transition lenses may not appear as big eyes thus defeating my camo to some point. I'm like Ronnie in that a lot of my areas are very up close and personal distances for coyotes to be looking for me. Every little bit helps.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 24, 2006 11:41 AM
Female low 30's "adapted" one of Charlene's 95gr Winchester BT[hogs], @ 600yrds. She came out of a creek walking. She shoulda ran.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted February 24, 2006 11:51 AM
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Was that today?
Gotta love it when big [243 wssm] hogs fly! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
later,
scruffy
[ February 24, 2006, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 24, 2006 12:48 PM
Yup, Scruff,
This am around 1100hrs. SowEaster wind rippin 20-25. Spotted for 4-hrs = nada. Went to visit Larry, old bud of Dad's & I.
Took him out for awhile spottin. Twenty minutes later, I pointed to a brushy creek draw. Told him, "I've seen a few coyotes, pop up out of there. Then out pop's one . Coyote was eyeing us, but remained walking.
Told Larry, "That coyote is dead" He gave me one of these ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Smile]](smile.gif) .
Slapped on the snow-pod, went prone in the edge of the field. She's walking up a wide valley. Put Charlene's crosshair on the tip of her nose.
1rd hit her mid-chest, right behind her front Right leg. No entry mark, exit was a 2" hole. She got back on her feet & ran. Fifth rd, hit her solid, but didn't exit. Game over.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted February 24, 2006 01:05 PM
quote:
scruffy -
I've often wondered the same thing as to whether my transition lenses may not appear as big eyes thus defeating my camo to some point. I'm like Ronnie in that a lot of my areas are very up close and personal distances for coyotes to be looking for me. Every little bit helps.
Lance, I hadn't thought about the "bug eye" thing. My first impression is they would. But last Saturday, 10 degrees, sitting on a hillside of picked corn a couple rows in from the fense, mossy oak boots, white pants showing (bottoms of my white coveralls), dark brown carhart coat, realtree hardwood hd fleece vest, advantage timber fleece gloves and hood, and my sun glasses, sitting in around 1" of snow, I howled and rabbit distressed in 17 turkeys from a couple hundred yards off... One hen came in to only 4 rows away (6'?) and walked back and forth looking right at me. A jake was a couple of rows behind her. The 15 other turkeys were 20 to 40 yards away. The hen and jake stayed there for over 5 minutes, clucking, walking back and forth, checking me out, I kept right on blowing the bunny blues on the 2dogs "goatmuncher" call.
I know they had to have seen my sun glasses since I was looking right at them, there was alittle movement of my working the call right below the glasses guiding their attention to that spot, we made eye contact almost the entire time of the close encounter.
Maybe the turkeys thought they were giant bug eyes and I was a giant bug and wanted to eat me? I doubt it, but they didn't see it as threatening, and they are a prey animal. So I think it's worth testing on the coyotes. They may see the "bug eyes" but not be threatened and therefore not spook like they would with actual close in eye contact.
2dogs, That'll be a memory Larry won't soon forget! How did her pelt look?
later,
scruffy
[ February 24, 2006, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted February 26, 2006 09:49 PM
I think Ill go along with the nature thing myself. One time I went to a private park with a friend of mine and his kids wanted to play on the play ground the park keepers had some peacocks with big plumes or whatever you call them big eye feathers. The kids ran for the slide and there stood two peacocks waving their big eye feathers and screaming really loud the kids hit the skids and turned and ran. Not the typical reaction from these kids as they were the type to punt a chicken across a barn, but I belive the peacocks have the adaptation to ward off threats long enough to escape.
I also remember a film on discovery channel moths that have the profile appearance of a owl when there wings are closed very impressive especially the eye, to ward off predators.
I personally favor the Natural Gear stuff, but found that no matter where you are you can still can stand out as long as the light is on you. When the sun comming up, if Im out in the open I prefer to be in the shadows of a hill side. When I cant do that I grab some thick cover to aid the camo itself.
Posts: 241 | From: SE IDAHO | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 27, 2006 05:45 AM
2Dogs, I can't imagine how much of these "stories" we are expected to swallow. There are so many inconsistancies it is comical to read your posts. First off, how did you determine that this coyote wieghed 30 plus pounds? Is it an educated guess or do you carry a scale with you? It seems to me, if you had a scale the coyote would have wieghed a specific amount, i.e. 32.5 lbs.
Next you tell us it was 600 yds, what rangefinder told you that? Which brand do you prefer? It is amazing that it was exactly 600 yds, not 608 or 596.
Then the wind was blowing 20 to 25 mph, well not blowing, it was ripping. And yet you were able to hold on the nose of a walking coyote and make the perfect shot. And to top that off you held your crosshairs there, no holdover??? Are you sighted in dead on at 600 yds? Good Grief!!!!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted February 27, 2006 07:50 AM
I believe you dogs.
Of course, I know you off the "net" as well, just not on here.
Cal, an average sized female coyote for this area isn't worth finding a scale for. And 2dogs has stated he doesn't have a range finder. Therefore the estimates of "low 30's" and 600 yards.
On the shot and were to aim, maybe the wind eliminated the need to "lead" the coyote as he walked?
How far do you lead a coyote walking or trotting at appox 600 yards? And then add the wind into the mix... not knowing the exact range and it changing as he's walking, etc... I think it's called a Hail Mary, LOL? And by the looks of it 2 of dogs Hail Mary's connected well.
I guess it's better to be lucky than good anyday?
later,
scruffy
[ February 27, 2006, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 27, 2006 08:39 AM
Scruffy, You are welcome to believe what you want. But I choose not to. BS is BS and a guy can only take so much. I think 2Dogs is like the proverbial "Christmas Goose". At 600 yds a crosswind like that would blow you off over 6 feet, with the particular bullet and caliber he is shooting, but who knows what direction it was blowing in relation to the shot, but he made the statement that he held "right on it's nose". And again, no mention of any holdover. There's a guy or two on here that knows what it would take to pull off such a shot, Tim Behle shoots at those ranges in matches and occasionally on coyotes, and would have a good idea of the reality of that shot in gusty winds.
This is not the first in a long line of windy stories that have came up. His dad choking a cat comes to mind. I would have loved to see his dad's hand after that one. I dispatch most of my trapped bobcats with a choke pole and a mans hand would be hamburger after choking a cat to death. And to top that off, what the hell does that or eating a chunk of raw pigeon that was blown off a bird by a pellet gun way back when in the good old days, have to do with anything here.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 09:44 AM
Thanks anyway, Scruff. I don't need a wingman, ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Cal,
Believe as you may...BS, whatever Cal . A Coyote Den...ever seen one! LOL!
I guess whatever comes from you is a natural fact. ADC MAN!
Seems you ADC guys, cant stand anyone with more field experience than thou . I've read your book
First off, my Dad had thick muscled arms [from working hard his whole life]. He never took #### from anyone, let alone a cat. His son's are the same, take that to the bank...bucko. Our Dad, hated cats, especially the one that hurt his little girl. I hate cats & adc gentlemen ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
He grabbed that cat by the back of his neck. Used his lower legs to pin, the dirtbag against the lower portion of the bench. Leave my Dad out of your #### comments, about me.
The coyote...I've shot a boatload, way out there. Some were running, LOL!. You funny long time
That recent coyote pic, was well past the 1/4 mile marker[we have 1/4 mile & 1/2 mile fence line's here! Duh!]
My rifle is set for 440yrds zero'd. Yah wind..It was RIPPIN 20-25mph from by backside...towards the walking coyote. That make YOUR BS more TRUE? You funny
A half mile here, is 880yrds[or didn't you know that! DUH!]. I don't shoot'em from a wuss-plane. Talk about clubbing fish in a barrel!. She was closing in on the 1/2 mile[MR. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!]
I put the horizontal hair on the top of her back. Bead on her nose. The rest is history.
[ February 27, 2006, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 09:57 AM
Almost forgot Cal...forgive me
I've shot & weighed enough coyotes to be able to pick one up & estimate it's weight. You able to do that? LOL!.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2006 10:21 AM
Okay, guys....
Myself, I count my steps, out and back and I always have a scale with me. I have made so few 600 yard shots that I remember every single one.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31480 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 10:27 AM
Another thing ADC Cal, What's with this "Us" & "We" business ![[Confused]](confused.gif) .
Is this your "Web-Site"????? HUH! If you don't like what I have to say, Why do you see fit. To "STRAIGHTEN" me out & "enlighten" the rest of the viewers of my "BS"
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 10:30 AM
Show me some of YOUR "Coyote Den pic's"
So I know what to look for. As I don't have a clue You must have quite afew, with all of your experience.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted February 27, 2006 10:46 AM
2dogs,
Hey Bud, don't take this the wrong way but the story about the shot sounded like BS to me too.
Your rifle is Zeroed at 440 nad you hit him at 600 with a dead on hold? No holdover??
As far as the aerial gunning for coyotes. I would LOVE to do that. Hell, I'd pay to do it!
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 10:50 AM
Mule,
That bullit dropped 5-6". Hit her low chest area. I wished he lived near by. It'd be a safe bet for him, to stake his dog out 600yrds, and give me 1-rd.
edit; Besides, he stated. I've said other[BS], with what I've posted in the past. A class act, for sure.
[ February 27, 2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 27, 2006 02:15 PM
Cal,
I've been biting my tongue for a long time too.
But the bell on this damned thing drives me nuts every time I read one of his posts.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 27, 2006 02:20 PM
Speak up, Tim. By all means let me hear it.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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