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Author
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Topic: to howl or not to howl that is my question?
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 22, 2006 06:07 PM
And thank goodness for the college boys that attempt to make UNDERSTANDING the coyote an exact science. Ignorance is the breeding ground of prejudice. Prejudice against a technique or against studying behaviors and communications or exploring new sounds and combinations of new sounds will only steepen your learning curve. Experiment, find out for yourself what sounds and techniques others recommend will work for you in your area. I believe it is as important to know what doesn't work in your area as what does.
Lance, I assume you were referring to me because I always use several different sounds on every stand. I call a Kitchen Sink Stand one that I am absolutely positive that a coyote can hear me and I throw everything that I have, including the kitchen sink, at it. It works often enough that I will try it eveytime I encounter that situation.
Lance observed me use that technique on some pressured coyotes last fall.
I call to the camera more often than the gun and know for a fact that I call the same animals time and again with the same sounds. I believe that presentation has a definite influence on the animals willingness to respond.
I usually begin stands with a nonthreatening howl, simply because the coyotes will approach a strange coyote more cautiously than they will a screaming prey animal. I find that it is easier to position that animal where I want it than a hard charger. Of course later in the season hardchargers are getting few and far between down here and are entertaining as heck.
BTW, I called in 12 to 16 coyotes at one time , altogether, with a lipsqueak.. On our video I called in seven at once, beginning with a nonthreatening lone howl. Their response was cautious but decisive.
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 22, 2006 06:36 PM
Ok,now walk me thru a typical stand in which you've decided your going to howl on,or do I infer from you last post, you howl on every stand you make regardless if your going to use distress or not?
We sit down,in an area I know holds coyotes, we settle in, I pull down the headnet,look over at you;from there, what can I expect to hear you use,for how long, at what interval till you decide to move on?
Posts: 1634 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
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posted July 23, 2006 06:48 AM
thanks cdog, as I said, I am still pretty new at this and I trust my source of info! I just saw the thread and thought I would reply. Maybe as I hunt more and more, I will find that howls or distress work or don't. But In my hunts and the Couple of coyotes that I did call and actually saw, it seemed to be on howls. But I will say that one I shot at the other day, the stand started off with whitetail fawn distress and then I went to howls. after the sounds stopped for a couple of minutes, it came out. It did howl (weird) before coming out SO thats why I said the howls got him.
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted July 23, 2006 08:17 AM
Well, my take on Browning204's post, since I was with him, is a bit different.
First Mike, go back and read what Lance wrote,
quote:
Once I introduce a howl, whether at the beginning of the stand or somewhere in the middle, I see things slow down considerably. Rather than busting in balls to the wall, the coyotes tend to approach with caution, and generally after moving downwind where they meet up with packmates.
and then
quote:
With howling, I wait a minimum of twenty, and often as not, the last 5-10 will be in total silence.
Now think about our stand Friday Morning.
Distress calls for about 10 minutes. No takers. Then you used the howles (we were using an E caller) After about 5 minutes of that, we got up and stood there for about 5 minutes deciding on where to go next. We were being pretty quiet, and what happened? We heard a howl, and then the coyote stepped out of the wood line in the corner of the field, down wind of us, and stood there, it's body language was more cautious than anything. It paced a bit, but it stayed out on the edge of the field long enough for you to put everything down, set up your shooting sticks and get a shot off.
I think the lesson we might have learned here, from the coyote and from Lance's post, is that we should have sat still longer after the howles.
We also learned that even though these coyotes were in pretty close proximity to people, they were infact pretty isolated in the area they choose to live. To access them from the north one would have to cross a pretty good sized swamp, and to access them from the south, the hike in, as you saw, was well over a mile. From the east it would be the same, but through some pretty thick and tough cover. From the west, it would be a good two mile walk, normally with the wind blowing right to them.
So, we learned that we should maybe sit a bit longer after howling, and that we should start to concentrate on finding more areas that are isolated from a lot of human activity right in the middle of all that human activity.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
Oh yeah, we also leaned that you need more practice time at the range ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Al
THO Game Calls
Edited for some spelling. If I hadn't wasted my youth huntiing, I might have got a better education.
[ July 23, 2006, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted July 23, 2006 08:50 AM
Mixing sounds on a stand is something I do as well. Kind of like Rich, if I know there are coyotes there I may give them several sounds and howls to get a responce. It just depends on the area and the stand set up.
Like Lance, I also may just howl on a stand, and I maybe on a stand for 45 min or more at times, and sometime during the stand there will be no calls made for 10 min or so.
Brent
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Kee's Custom Calls
http://www.keescalls.com
Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 23, 2006 09:10 AM
Cdog911; Yes if i know there is a coyote hanging up, i will try different sounds also to get him to come in, but other than that i keep it simple on most of my stands. I have had coyotes come in and hang up and i would turn the caller back on and then they would start comeing in again ,as soon as i turned it off they would stop again, i would just leave the caller on then and they would charge right in makeing for some fast and furris action. When they do that they really get my heart pumping.
[ July 23, 2006, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 23, 2006 10:21 AM
Nothing wrong with your technique, TA. That's the way you have found to work for you, and mine is the way I have seen work better. Whack it with a big stick until there is nothing left but the brass tacks and what you have left is two guys that call differently and that's a better thing in the long run. The guys that all sound alike only hurt themselves by being easily identifiable.
As far as being quiet, IMO one of the best mid-set or end-set sounds that can be used, especially on a stand where you haven't used vocalizations, is dead silence. Always nice to see a sneaky-snake coming in under the radar hoping to find crumbs without confrontation.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 23, 2006 02:11 PM
Cdog
quote:
My personal experience with howling has proven exactly the opposite of what you've been told, but bear in mind that there are very few guys that use howling where I hunt. When using distress sounds, any nearby coyote will respond and often, they do so alone probably so as not to have to share or fight over the bunny once found. With distress alone, singles are the rule rather than the exception and a double makes for a red letter stand. The response is generally fast with the vast majority of takers showing inside the first five minutes, if not in the first two.
My experience with that might be somewhat different than yours. Doubles or multiples shouldn't be uncommon with just distress. I would say the biggest variable might be the time of year.
Starting stands with a howl or two and then getting on a distress usually results in a faster reaction than sometimes usuing just distress.(for me)
I think the act of howling informs any coyote that there is a coyote in the area. And when you start the distress that coyote has the rabbit, deer fawn or what ever.
When just using distress, the coyote might have some uncertainty on what actually has the rabbit. Maybe a pack of feral dogs, farm dog, lion, hawk or whatever.
I like to let them to think I'm a coyote from the get go(or two coyote if a partner joins in at the start from a different location). Let the coyote decide what he wants to do with that strange coyote that just caught that prey animal.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
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posted July 23, 2006 06:35 PM
THO: you are right about the stand on friday, and I was gonna mention it to you in person that maybe, if you thought it would help, maybe we should sit in silence before we leave a stand because missin on that coyote really bummed me out!! I AM NOT underminding you OR second guessing you, it just seemed like the last 2 were on howls. But I would like to start keeping track of sounds used, in what areas and of what outcome we or I had with those factors. So I have a better understanding of what works! And (hahaha) I will be hitting the range either tuesday or wendsday, care to join me? I would like to hunt again soon, I wanna get as much in as possible before the little one comes!!!
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted July 24, 2006 03:17 PM
quote:
I still start lot of my stand with howls, Lonehowls or lost puupy howls. But its hard to explain? I almost go off gut feeling? Some stands I howl to start some I howl to finish. But almost all my stands have some kind of coyote vocals even if its just puppy wines or distress.
Brent
Thats exactly what i do...Play the Gut!
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted July 24, 2006 07:46 PM
My experience closely resembles Dennis's with one difference in phylosophy... I hunt all year long and as the productivity of that technique drops I change it up until something works consistantly. I do not allow "My way" to interrupt doing what works- I pad the ego bruised by not knowing everything by going home with blood on the tailgate.
The concept of being a coyote is something I work from in many ways, but as recently as the past three weeks I've seen that begin to have a negative impact on my number of callups. Adjusting my style I've managed to call 6 in the last 6 stands... last night was an insanely exciting hunt but oddly enough ended up depending on aggressive vocals to get a pint-sized pup in range.
Like my pa' always said... for the upteenth time... you can do it right or you can do it your way. Doesn't matter to me. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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PAyotehunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 764
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posted July 25, 2006 06:19 PM
I'm a nobody so take this for what its worth.
I feel a calling style is dictated by your location and its coyote population. Sure anything could work anywhere occasionally. The K.I.S.S theory has been working for me.
BigBen,
You have been around for a while now and met and talked with alot of predator hunters in PA. By now you should have a good idea who is real and who is full of air. Talk to them keep an open mind and listen closely. I'm not saying disregard what your reading here, but use what you learn from successful coyote hunters in your area and add what YOU think sounds good or makes sense and give it hell. You already made the right step in talking with Dave Dunbar. He is probably the most knowledgeable guy on coyote behavior and calling in PA.
Posts: 57 | From: Northeast PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 26, 2006 07:07 PM
"Ok,now walk me thru a typical stand in which you've decided your going to howl on,or do I infer from you last post, you howl on every stand you make regardless if your going to use distress or not?
We sit down,in an area I know holds coyotes, we settle in, I pull down the headnet,look over at you;from there, what can I expect to hear you use,for how long, at what interval till you decide to move on?"
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Vic,
I'm thinking that Rich H. starts out with two hoots and a quack. After three minutes of silence,he throws the kitchen sink just as far as he can. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted August 01, 2006 01:58 PM
I believe and have confidence in howling,so I generally start out with a howl. If I get a response and the coyote is a long ways out, I will answer one time and that is all. Just wait. If I get one to howl close I don't do anything except get ready. Simple as that. Once in awhile you'll get one to sit out there and yap and carry on and then I'll yap right back at him. If I don't get a response, I'll go to the distress calls, and I don't overdo it. I think some guys put too much into there howling or distress calls. Just my two cents.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 02, 2006 07:07 AM
Welcome Jerry. Glad to see you here.
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