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Author
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Topic: Down wind coyotes
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted May 26, 2006 10:19 AM
quote:
How do the rest of you guys handle your "weak side"??? Scoot around when the coyote shows up, switch hit (shoot both right and left handed), or is there another solution
quote:
But say south of the finger there is no cover, it's a baren field, my hiney would be sitting out in the open
Setup southwest of that finger, in the barren field with the wind in your face.
Dennis
[ May 26, 2006, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted May 26, 2006 10:31 AM
Chad, What you are expecting us to believe is that in 20 years you have never had a coyote wind you and haul ass? And all this time in Utah, which gets the crap called out of it?
As to the downwind, my explanation is pretty much the same as Quintons. I use it to may advantage, if I can't block out the downwind with terrain, I try to assure myself of a clear shot somewhere between point A (where I think the coyote is coming from) and point B (where I think he is going to head to to get the wind). I definately purpously set up in a way that makes it the least likely to get back doored. I hate it when that happens.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted May 26, 2006 10:44 AM
quote:
quote:
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How do the rest of you guys handle your "weak side"??? Scoot around when the coyote shows up, switch hit (shoot both right and left handed), or is there another solution
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quote:
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But say south of the finger there is no cover, it's a baren field, my hiney would be sitting out in the open
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Setup southwest of that finger, in the barren field with the wind in your face.
Dennis
I tried that actually. The ground east and SE of the timber finger is flat, west and SW of the timber finger is rolling up and down. No matter where I setup on the west and SW side I had huge blind spots that would hide a coyotes approach. I layed prone on the highest point to the SW with the least blind spots, put out a turkey decoy I had in the truck for giggles to see what would happen, and called for 45 minutes as the sun went down behind me. Nothing... Didn't see a blame thing. Until I stood up.... I walked the 50' or so to the turkey decoy and a couple of hens had snucked in on me, they were 100 or so yards away eyeing my hen decoy... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 26, 2006 11:55 AM
Cal,
First off, I Never said that I have NEVER been winded.I said RARELY...
Second, I Rarely hunt in Utah anymore.Most of my calling is done on Ranches in Nevada.
Wind is a weird thing.To think that just because the wind is blowing at your back that your scent is going to travel right to a coyotes nose everytime is Niave.
It's like a while back when a few so called experts said that misting didn't work on a consistant basis,because a coyotes nose is to good to be fooled.LOL Try telling that to Danny, and Leonard that have been having success with it for the last forty years.
If a guy doesn't want to call with the wind at your back.Fine.But please don't tell me it won't work because it has worked for me for years.... ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 26, 2006 12:53 PM
Oh Shit! Now do I have to choose sides?
There are many ways to hunt coyotes and I guess I have tried most of them, accidentally, or on purpose. The problem is this, some places, like Wyoming, you can set up with elevation and see what is going on for miles, any direction you care to look. I have watched Cal's video, he has a bird's eye view of his dogs working and I'm sure he sets up down wind, after locating his coyotes.
I cold call, most of the time. I do the best I can with the situation, observe wind, sun, cover, whatever seems important. I have to evaluate the sign, and determine if it's worth investing 15/20 minutes of my time. I can guess right, and can get back doored even when I'm right, on those occasions when multiple responses happen.
I don't think that I call upwind or downwind? I call crosswind, if given a choice, like the previous poster mentioned about favoring the weak side. I'm convinced, and have been for many years, that a coyote can sneak in undetected, from any point of the compass. I just like to have a clear view of downwind. It seems to this (admitted) amateur that a coyote might get downwind of me at any time, and I like to be aware of it.
Also, I have hunted Wyoming and Utah and Arizona and Nevada. In my opinion, there are a lot more coyotes in AZ and NV than there are in WY and UT. Therefore, you can't always be so sure of where they are and how many might be just over the hill.
I always want to kill a coyote before he decides to go downwind, but sometimes you cannot stop them from doing it, or you are blocked out. Therefore, I notice a significant percentage of coyotes that wind up downwind, and I am prepared to deal with that situation just like anything else that develops on a stand. It's damned hard to do, if you are sitting there, facing upwind.
Anyway, that's my reasons and we all know there are different ways of setting up on a stand. Some of us are set in our ways, and not about to change their mind, but there will be a few that read the various arguments for this or that and will likely see something they can understand, and use. That's what it's all about.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 26, 2006 01:40 PM
I agree with that Leonard.There are a host of other things to think about besides Wind direction.The Sun not being in my face is more important than almost anything.Where I hunt it would be very difficult to block the downwind side for a coyotes approach,and since I know that's where they're headed most of the time,especially when using a howler that's where I want to be ready for the shot.Most of my shots are 100-300 yards,I don't take alot of shots from 0-50 yards and I don't hold coyotes on stand like Rich H. does,so I think that's why I don't get busted that often.First clean shot and I take it.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
[ May 26, 2006, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 26, 2006 02:33 PM
scruffy, you answered your own question in your last sentence as far as handling the weak side. Matt is my main gunner these days and, of course, he shoots right handed. (I shoot lefty, too.) If we sit close together, he's on my right and we face 45-degrees either side of straight out front of us if we don't have much for cover behind us. Otherwise, each covers 180.
I think that most of us, upon introspection, would admit that Cal's comments, combined with Leonard's are pretty much spot on - sit where we can see downwind but don't rule out a stand just because you can't work the wind perfectly. Hell, if I aborted every stand where the wind wasn't exactly right for me, I'd be on a football BBS right now.
Given the three choices - upwind, wind at back, crosswind, I would say I try to call with a crosswind 60+% of the time, and downwind slightly more than upwind. Between misting and setting myself up for some visibility on my flaks,, I can usually handle the downwind issues.
Upwind, on the other hand, poses a problem for me, especially since I rely somewhat heavily on howling because of its relative absence in use by other callers around here. Since most coyotes
I've observed coming to vocalizations are doing everything they can to get downwind of me (not so much on distress), calling upwind would only create backdoor opportunities when you willfully direct the coyote to your blind side.
Oh, and BTW, NOT a good looking coyote. Surprised at how much coat he's still carrying around, and a lot of it had fallen out or been torn out by patches of mange. A male, he was probably a minimum 33-35 pounds, pretty hefty drag, and his teeth showed him to be (best guess) 2-3 years old. Absolutely no testes to mention. Frank, but no beans. He was running with a second one that looked just like him. I spoke with the lady whose husband called me to ask for my help and she said they actually had a peaceful night's sleep without interruption last night for the first time in nearly 6 weeks. I laughed and told her nothing crashes a party like someone showing up and killing half the folks invited. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 26, 2006 11:22 PM
Leonard, that was about a fine a post on the subject as Ive read; and, oddly enough, about exactly how I approach my stands. I would imagine I have sat with my nose straight into the wind, about as many times as I have with it straight into the sun....damned seldom.
Crosswind is my favored stand setup, with a slight angle to the down wind, being left handed, I sit at a slight angle to the call, looking to its direction with my eyes, but body position is canted to my right, or strong side.
Funny how different guys situtate themselves to a partner, who shoots with a different hand?Being left handed,and shooting with a right hander, I always direct him to my left. The simple reason being, that his natural tendency is to craddle his rifle with the muzzle pointing somewhat to his left, and I sit with my muzzle being oriented to my right. Never matters how safe I know my partner is, or in my own saftey habits....I don't want a rifle muzzle angling towards me at any time.
I don't see it as folly, calling downwind, just another trick in the bag as far as Im concerned. Granted, it's a fine line sometimes, when that coyote gets a snoot full, flares,and hauls ass, but I think the guys that like to call to the down wind, probably have refined their technique to the degree, that they get a shot before the coyote reaches that point of no return?
Im a dyed in the wool "cross winder", just my developed style, and it seems to work for me just fine. If I worry about anything, it's making sure Im not squinting into a rising or setting sun,and much less about which way the wind is blowing.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 27, 2006 06:38 AM
Tim defined my style on here a few months ago. I call facing away from my truck.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 27, 2006 07:02 AM
Alright, here's the fly in the ointment...
We go out this morning, Matt and I, to take a morning poke at these trouble making coyotes. We round a corner off the blacktop headed toward the first of two stands I want to make before I need to be home and Matt says, "coyote!". There, about 120 yards off the road, straight downwind of us, stands a big coyote. I roll to a casual stop, Matt opens his door and uses the frame to steady. Bang. Flop. I suspect that coyote wasn't concerned about "our wind" since he probably figured us for just coming in to check cattle or horses. He was a big old bastard and probably blind in one eye. The right eye was all milky and cataracted, probably trauma and old blood in the humorous fluid inside. This is him.
We left there and went down the road. Walked in a quarter mile and set up just off the back lots of the house where the coyotes are causing grief. Going with Ronnie's philosophy, "make 'em pay for the wind", the only set up we had was looking north and west with a SE wind. I set up at the east corner and sent Matt down the fencerow about a hundred feet to the west (downwind of me). All I used was howls and puppy distress and two sets in, here comes a small coyote at a dead run right at Matt, trying to get thru to me. Matt "woofed" him to a stop and smoked him at under fifteen yards with the coyote directly downwind of him. She is the smaller one of these two in this pic...
In any event, two coyotes, both taken directly downwind from 15-120 yards. Never say never.
[ May 27, 2006, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 27, 2006 09:25 AM
Lance, that is typical behavior for the Kansas subspecies c.latrans retardus.
Seriously, nice technique. You've become a coyotekillingmachine.
Welcome coyotehunter_1 as you know dealing with the wind in the Ozarks is almost a religious experience.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 27, 2006 09:29 AM
Probably just a fluke thing Lance.LOL
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 27, 2006 09:33 AM
Hey Rich, are those the ones that are most identifiable because they have one googly eye and keep stopping every so often to smell their own asses so they can remember the difference between it and a hole in the ground? If so, I'll add it to my list. And I didn't kill anything. Matt did all the shooting today. I didn't even warm a barrel. In fact, I think one-eye is the big dog I missed the other night. We weren't but about another hundred yards from where I bumped him off his bed. Matt made the point that he's two for two with that new rifle of his. I reminded him that is why I dragged him with me. If I wanted just good company, I'd be sitting out there talking to myself. For someone who knew nothing about calling or killing coyotes one short year ago, he's doing pretty well. Best gunner I have, and always ready to skip work, stand up his girlfriend, whatever, to go whackin' and stackin'. Boy's got his priorities right.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 27, 2006 09:35 AM
Oh, and I had good teachers. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 27, 2006 11:13 AM
Lance, that coyote has a decidedly "wolfy" muzzle.
About stopping the truck and shooting a coyote directly downwind. That coyote already knew what you were, no surprise that you smelled just like you looked. Quick, be still and invisible; it's worked dozens of times before, right? It's a bit different when they are in the middle of nowhere, and they respond to distress or howls, expecting to sniff.... (ta da!) coyote and rabbit, but the surprise is that they (instead) smell human! That's when they get the hell out of Dodge.
Good hunting. LB
[ May 27, 2006, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TREE MY DOG
PAKMAN
Member # 731
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posted May 27, 2006 12:56 PM
Ok boys he may have been blind in one eye,but he is dead now. and if it's so impossible to succesfully call and kill kansas yotes {c.latrans retardus if your rich }from down wind why did i have one within spittin distance of me this mourning? not to mention countless more last winter? But i am still new at this so if yall say it can't be done , it must just be IMPOSSIBLE!
HOPE YA ALL ARE HAVEING A GOOD SUMMER!
MATT
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matt
Posts: 7 | From: kansas | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 27, 2006 03:04 PM
Boyz,
That there is young Matt, and as is the case with every young pup, I 'spect that this one's 'bout to be run off the porch with a first shot in this debate using that tone. (I can assure you he typed with a grin on his face.)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 27, 2006 03:05 PM
Welcome Matt. Glad you brought your sense of humor with you.
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted May 28, 2006 11:32 AM
Welcome Matt! Let me ask a guestion if I may. If you absolutely, one hundred percently had to kill that coyote or your reputation would be on the line. Would you make that same setup?
An example might be if a rancher called you and said he had a problem with coyote killing his one hundred dollar ewes and sixty dollar lambs and wanted you to take care of the problem. You tell him you'll do it but you want $100.00 down and $50.00 a coyote until you are sure you have the problem solved. He agrees.
So you decide to try calling and hopefully call in the trouble maker or multiple trouble makers and get the problem solved before you have to do all the legwork in setting snares and traps. It might just be a matter of bang, bang and you have 150.00 dollars in you pocket and the ranchers happy.
Do you have enough confidence in that type of setup to consistently get it done??
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted May 28, 2006 11:44 AM
Exactly how many is “countless” for a guy that is still new to this? I have a real good idea.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 28, 2006 12:57 PM
PAGING: matt kohman
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 28, 2006 02:31 PM
Q- Be nice.
Dennis-
My rep pretty much was on the line. The guy whose property we were on had asked several ppl about who could get that coyote for him and every person he asked gave him my name. If that weren't the case, there would be no pictures because I don't call coyotes out of season unless I have a landowner having problems with them and needing help. It's how I get more acres every year. Those boys talk at the Co-op and the coffee shop and when you do right by them, they make sure other guys know you're looking for places to hunt. In the case of this location, there simply wasn't much other choice as far as set up. I've got five houses on that section of ground, and racing greyhound runways to watch for. One bad shot and you just bought $5K worth of dog meat. As far as the wind, I don't let the wind keep me from calling a setup if I really want to. This isn't wide open country where the winds move long distances. Between trees, hills, washouts, shelterbelts, and the like, there's no guarantee that the wind's still going "that way" when it gets out there a little way.
Sometimes you just have to hunt the setup you get rather than waiting for the setup you want. You guys that are so dead set that wind is always a bad thing should know that if I operated under that philosophy, I could easily kiss 20-25,000 acres goodbye on any given day. You just gotta know how to work with what's given to you. this guy wanted this coyote dead NOW, not "when the wind is more favorable", and BTW, FYI, and the like, the ind yesterday was 15-20, expected to increase (as it did) to 25-35 with gusts over 40. Put by and make do.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted May 28, 2006 06:14 PM
I always thought Bryan said it well...
"Did you just experience the rule, or the expection to the rule?
You may never know."
Q,
In Kansas, "countless" is eleven... unless you take your shoes off.
Krusty 
[ May 28, 2006, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 28, 2006 06:21 PM
Uh oh! and Lance has been nice to you lately. I'm not protecting ya.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted May 28, 2006 06:38 PM
Not to pick on you Lance,
Nope, nevermind, I am going to pick. If you are calling it ADC work, and it has to be done to perfection, what seperates the boys from the men is the ability to wait if necessary and get things right. Farmer be damned.
Probably the deadliest man I know when it comes to coyotes is a private trapper/hunter from Johnson county Wyoming. He is 70 years old. He wouldn't know how to turn on a computer if his life depended on it. He probably taught Bill Austin everything he ever knew. His father did the same thing before him. He KNOWS coyotes. And I will guarantee, he will not make a bad set up. If they are killing 5 lambs a night and it takes him three days to get things right, then by golly they are going to lose 15 more lambs, BUT, when he gets things the way he wants, they will ALL die. There is simply no question as to the end result. And he has seen the results of screwed up deals with coyotes that are actually killing and causing problems, and will not chance screwing up, due to the problems that poor setups and bad results can cause. Everybody can get lucky and have stuff work out occasionally, but the guys that really know what they are doing won't take chances they don't have to. I'm guilty of rushing things occasionally, due to guys really having problems and begging you to get something done ASAP, but in the end, sooner or later it will bite you in the ass.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
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