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Author
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Topic: What are the odd's
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2007 11:23 AM
How far does the chirp carry? Is it used for calling in coyotes or coaxing them in closer? Does it sound like a robins chirp or more like a prarie dog? Could i coax more coyotes in by useing the chirp compared to useing a squeaker. Would it be better to use a Black bear chirp since it could be louder and thus carry farther??? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted March 01, 2007 11:32 AM
Sorry the sarcasm was missed. I was kidding around with you guys. The only reason I have the coyote is for recordings. I have recorded all kinds of sounds from her at great length and have been testing them to see what works and what doesn't.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 01, 2007 01:00 PM
So Chad,
With your vast knowledge and scientific mind, remember I have yet to bring to the table "ALL of my data. As I have said: I don't type well and have a hard time trying to express myself on this PC.
If you were to talk to me on the phone I'm certian you would understand what I'm saying much better and I would be able to shair much more indepth what I know. 208 841 5554 anytime
As to your comment .... LOL you crack me up.
CHAD:So if you want to believe you've got it all figured out on why the coyote is responding that's your choice,but for someone like me that has half as many years of coyote calling/howling experience as you do,I see it for what it is, SPECULATIVE BULLSH**T.Good Hunting Chad
I have never said: "I HAVE IT ALL FIGURED OUT"
CHAD:for someone like me that has half as many years of coyote calling/howling experience as you do,I see it for what it is, SPECULATIVE BULLSH**T.
Two things here that come to mind: #1 why would you question some one who has, as you said: twice as many years expiriance with out knowing ALL the facts.
#2 its funny to me that you can even sit there behind your PC and talk sh** to me. At least Scott has as much time in the field and practicle expiriance as I do. I respect that.
are you wanting me to name a call after you also.
Let me think,,,,,,,maybe the "chapped lip Bata" or "little big dog" HUUUUUMMMmmm the posibilitys.
Often times when two alpha's are fighting, the batas get in the middle and limp home.
I guess if you can't beat them, join in the fun.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2007 01:24 PM
Chad knows his shit, Sly.
Not sticking up for either of you, about this subject, but he's a real good experienced coyote hunter, day and night. I'd hunt with him.
Or you, too, for that matter.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 01, 2007 01:31 PM
LB,
Its not me who's questioning him.
I'm sure he has spent time out there doing the job. My debate ain't with him but if he wants to join in then so be it.
If you corner a dog expect to get bit.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 01, 2007 01:58 PM
Sly,
Without getting another 5 page thread going I will address some of what you said.
Sly:With your vast knowledge and scientific mind, remember I have yet to bring to the table "ALL of my data. As I have said: I don't type well and have a hard time trying to express myself on this PC.
What "data" do you speak of.How you "Chirp" on your howler and coyotes come running?I am not disputing that,just your explanation of why they are comming.When you yourself "all 37 years of experience" and all have only heard ONE coyote make the sound.LOL
Sly:I have never said: "I HAVE IT ALL FIGURED OUT"
You sure implied that the reason they are responding was for sex/territorial reasons when you really don't know.
Sly:Two things here that come to mind: #1 why would you question some one who has, as you said: twice as many years expiriance with out knowing ALL the facts.
Just because you have been calling for more years than I doesn't mean you have more or better understanding of howling and coyote vocalizations.
Sly:#2 its funny to me that you can even sit there behind your PC and talk sh** to me. At least Scott has as much time in the field and practicle expiriance as I do. I respect that.
First off I would tell you the same thing face to face as I would behind a PC,second You don't know me and how much time I have in the field just like I don't know you and how much time you have in the field.Years don't always equal more experience.And before you get your Panties in a wad I'm not saying you don't have the experience to back up your years in the field.lol
Sly:are you wanting me to name a call after you also.
HARDLY..
Sly:Often times when two alpha's are fighting, the batas get in the middle and limp home.
LOL you just keep telling yourself you're a Alpha. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1615 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 01, 2007 04:24 PM
See how it feels Chad, when someone you don't know, that don't know you, inpunes your integrity.
As far as data, I keep reccords of my stands. From these reccords I can learn much more than you think. You want details call me.
Its up to you Chad.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 01, 2007 05:47 PM
Sly:See how it feels Chad, when someone you don't know, that don't know you, inpunes your integrity.
I guess you lost me.How does me knowing you or not knowing you have anything to do with you believing you know why a coyote is responding to a estrus chirp.And I never called your integrity into question,I just said you don't really know why the coyote responded.And you don't.....
Sly:As far as data, I keep reccords of my stands. From these reccords I can learn much more than you think. You want details call me.
I'm well aware that alot can be learned from record keeping with regards to calling.But it still doesn't change the fact that you don't know why they responded. Chad
Posts: 1615 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 01, 2007 06:04 PM
quote:
Sly: "You can pull a sentence from a paragraph and change the meaning."
Bullsh*t!
Sly,
This is the second time I'm asking you.
Bring the quote and show everyone where I have "turned words around" or "changed their meanings".
I'm going to keep asking until you provide an example by bringing MY ACTUAL QUOTE where I SUPPOSEDLY "turned words around" or "changed their meanings".
Talk is cheap Sly, bring the quote.
Not some generic example like you just provided.
quote:
Sly: "Thats what I take issue with Scott, even after we agree to disagree you come back and poke little jabs at me and a few others."
I'm poking fun at the "estrous chirp concept" because I think it's bogus. I never once mentioned your name in this thread until you got bent out of shape defending a concept YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.
If the response examples you have provided during the calf complaint are real, and I have no reason to doubt that they are, then there is another reason besides sex that is eliciting that response.
A coyote is not going to run back to a calving pen after hearing a shot FOR SEX or TERRITORIAL REASONS, which is exactly what the "estrous chirp" concept is trying to imply.
There is certain things that a coyote will throw caution to the wind for UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. One is during a killing spree, another is to come to the rescue of another coyote in distress, and the other is maternal instincts of protecting dens.
I do not believe you are going to get a coyote to throw caution to the wind for sex to the same degree.
quote:
Sly: "Problem is Scott, you can't prove that you are right anymore than I can (at this time)prove I am."
I can provide many examples of where coyotes have thrown caution to the wind during protection of the den, to come to the rescue of one of their own, or during a killing spree.
I cannot provide an example where coyotes have thrown caution to the wind TO THAT SAME DEGREE for sex.
quote:
SH (previous): "Do you believe a coyote is going to stop and return to a situation like this for sex?"
quote:
Sly (in response): "Here again you are using my words OUT of CONTEXT."
I simply asked a question.
Here's your example....
quote:
Sly: "After I helped get those damned heffers back in I sat up on the hay stack and waited almost 2 hours till the cows started gettin a little loud. I turned on my spot and sure as hell, both were in the middle pen and surrounded with cows. I'm sure learnin alot about this chirp. I shot the first coyote and all hell broke loose. There was cattle goin every witch way and when I spotted the seccond coyote she was almost to the fence, so I gave her a little serise of 3 chirps and STOPED HER DEAD in her tracks."
In that situation you got a coyote to stop with three "chirps". So what? I can do the same thing with an adult coyote distress and possibly get this coyote to turn and come back if it's out of range.
So I ask again, do you think you can get an adult coyote to come back to a situation like this for sex?
Let me remind you of what you stated...
quote:
Sly: "Why does the hole group respond? well I belive the males are comming for the sex... (thats how men think),,,LOL,,, the females are comming to defend their territorial boundrys ( don't want a strange bitch in her backyard )."
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that your statement DIRECLY ABOVE refers to a situation where a coyote is unaware of your presence as opposed to coming back to a calving lot, after hearing a shot, for sex.
BTW, the territorial aspects of a coyote are far more apparent 1 month after breeding, prior to denning, than during breeding. Heck, most of the times when I see coyotes breeding, they aren't any where close to where they are going to den because they are close to cattle so how can you say that coyotes come to "estrous chirps" for territorial reasons. They aren't generally territorial until April.
quote:
[Sly: "BTW did you tell LB that the coyote that came back to the sound was a 30# female and BTW they were not killing when I shot either one of them nor were they eating."
Ok so they weren't killing but they were damn sure there to eat or something. The may not have been eating when you shot them but that's why they were there.
We have another problem. Your stories are conflicting so I must ask....
Did the 30# female COME BACK TO THE SOUND or did it STOP DEAD IN HER TRACKS?
BIG DIFFERENCE!
quote:
Varmit Hunter: "I have to wonder just how much crap the guy that invented the wheel had to put up with."
Probably not much. The wheel is self explanatory and the benefits obvious.
In comparison, the "estrous chirp" concept is more along the order of someone selling you a lightning rod for your house.
Know anyone that ever questioned the effectiveness of a lightning rod? I do but never the lightning rod salesman. Don't see many lightning rods on houses anymore do you. At one time, everyone was convinced they were the real deal.
And the beat goes on.....
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 01, 2007 06:44 PM
quote:
Often times when two alpha's are fighting, the batas get in the middle and limp home.
This got my interest.
Sly, have you ever seen this occur? You must have since you said "often times". Under what circumstances?
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted March 01, 2007 07:21 PM
Hell Rich, I've seen that myself. I think it was in front of a bar in Scottsdale. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2007 07:57 PM
Maybe this Chirp is more of a distress sound, like ouch,ouch youre hurting me big boy, and thats why you are getting a response. Distress not sex.????????
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 02, 2007 04:49 PM
quote:
TA: "Maybe this Chirp is more of a distress sound, like ouch,ouch youre hurting me big boy, and thats why you are getting a response. Distress not sex.????????"
After hearing the sound, I think you are "bang on the money" (no pun intended).
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted March 02, 2007 07:05 PM
My,I thought I knew quite a bit about calling coyotes,but listening to you guys, is interesting. Who cares what kinds of sounds call in coyotes. Whatever works for you , is all that matters. If you can call them in with a Fog Horn so be. It looks to me like you guys are getting to critical of each other. These are suppose to be informative and educational, but it looks like things are getting a little out of hand. Grant it some of you know a lot about coyotes,but a lot of people on this site are just interested in the bascics. I have called coyotes since I was 11yrs old and I am 62yrs old now. Does that make me an expert. I think not. I have learned a thing or two in those years,but I just stick to the things that work for me. If someone thinks they have a great way to call in coyote so be. That is just my opinon and I am entitled to it just like everyone else is. Enough said.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 02, 2007 07:17 PM
Jerry were you exhaling or did you inhale all of that?
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted March 02, 2007 07:42 PM
Rich, I think I was doing a little of both. Just venting a little frustration. We got lots of snow up here now.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 02, 2007 07:49 PM
It's 58 degrees here now. Clear and calm. Coyotes were howling out back an hour ago. The dogs and I joined in. Wish I could inhale a howl like you. Or exhale one like Scott.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 02, 2007 08:00 PM
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 03, 2007 08:26 AM
quote:
J_hun: "Who cares what kinds of sounds call in coyotes."
I certainly do. I also care about why that sound elicited a response so I know when to use that sound again. Then again, I take this a lot more seriously than the average Joe.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 03, 2007 05:40 PM
quote:
. I also care about why that sound elicited a response so I know when to use that sound again.
I'm confused. Haven't you been telling us that we can't possibly know why a coyote responds?
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted March 04, 2007 04:59 AM
TA17Rem, We have about 4" on the ground right now. It will go away pretty quick with the warm weather coming. About 35 miles East, they have a lot more snow. Went to Sioux Falls yesterday in that shitty weather and saw three coyotes off the interstate. The wind was blowing 40mph but the coyotes were still moving. Saw one right in the outskirts of Sioux Falls along the Big Sioux River. I might be able to find you a partner for the Varmint Hunters Contest next year. The Dupree contest was won by Bob Stalley and his Partner Austin Early. They had a good day with 10 coyotes. Second place was Rocky Longbrake and partner with 6 coyotes I think. They had 58 teams. It seems to be growing bigger every year.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted March 04, 2007 06:03 PM
quote:
I'm confused. Haven't you been telling us that we can't possibly know why a coyote responds?
Details Rich H, mere details. I'm also confused Wiley. I can't wait to see the spin job you put on this one.
[ March 04, 2007, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 04, 2007 06:46 PM
quote:
RH: "I'm confused. Haven't you been telling us that we can't possibly know why a coyote responds?"
Are you suggesting that you know why a coyote responds in each situation to every sound?
No? Then I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle doesn't it?
Sometimes we have a pretty good idea why they respond and sometimes we don't have a clue.
I think some amongst us would lead others to believe they know a hell of a lot more than they actually do.
I questioned how anyone could know that a coyote responding to a DUPLICATION OF an estrous chirp was respounding for sexual reasons. I never said we can't possibly know why coyotes respond to certain sounds under certain situations.
If I blow a pup distress sound near a den with pups in that den I'll have a pretty good idea why the bitch is barking in my face.
Don't spin what I've stated Rich.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 04, 2007 06:49 PM
quote:
Smithers: "I'm also confused Wiley."
I've noticed!
quote:
Smithers: "I can't wait to see the spin job you put on this one."
You're too late Smithers, the spin job is already in place. The spin job was the implication that I don't think we ever know why a coyote responds.
I'll bet you really look cute in your cheerleading outfit don't you?
Think for yourself Smithers!
~SH~
[ March 04, 2007, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 04, 2007 08:28 PM
I'm not spinning anything. I am telling you that I am confused over this apparent contradiction.
You stated
quote:
What you don't know is why they responded. You don't know what they are thinking in their response anymore than you know what a dog is thinking that is baying on a track. For all you know he might be thinking "damn I wish Rich wouldn't feed me right next to that smelly cat".
Followed by
quote:
I also care about why that sound elicited a response so I know when to use that sound again.
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