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Author
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Topic: MANGE!!!!!!
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted September 25, 2008 05:05 PM
No senoritas Jeremy! Senoritas bad medicine. Make angry momma bear. Just plenty coyote!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted September 25, 2008 06:34 PM
Lance, was the disease your dog had called hapatizoinosis(sp) by any chance? It is a disease that is caused by the ingestion of ticks. It is caused by protazoa. It can only be positively identified through muscle biopsy.
Wiley E, the mite that causes mange in hogs is not the same as causes mange in canines. Mites are host specific, like lice. They could possibly share the same traits as far as life cycle goes, except, they dont lay eggs outside the host dermous. The consumtion of medicated carcusses makes sence to how a wild population of canines could be treated. Personnally, we never could get coyotes to consume deads that had been medicated. Of course, this is from an area with mild winters in comparison to other places. It would have been nice to analyse the stomach contents of those coyotes for certain medications such as antibiotics and pesticides.
I do not believe that being infected with sarcoptic mange is a '100% death sentence'. I have seen some that I have felt were recovering from mange. I have no idea as to the percentage that recover, but I doubt it is very high. I do not have any answers, and searched around some time ago for a study on coyotes survival and mange, but no luck. I do believe that the spread of the mite is from live host to live host, not from a dorment stage to live host. This is based on my uderstanding of the morphology of the mite. Of course, my info is 20 years old.
Maintain, Geordie
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted September 25, 2008 06:42 PM
O they are just to hand you your requested margaritas and perform the back rubs!
I got ya.
[ September 25, 2008, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: JeremyKS ]
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted September 25, 2008 06:57 PM
Cross J I agree. I have been to lots of areas that have mange but never seen the die off that lots of guys seem to talk about. Good example, in Eastern Colorado 2 winter ago they had areas that received multiple feet of snow with one of the histories worst blizzards to date. They had manage before the storm and the next year after they still had mange. You would of thought due to the exposure the mangy coyotes would have died off.
[ September 25, 2008, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: JeremyKS ]
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted September 25, 2008 07:58 PM
I have killed a few coyotes here in Okie land that looked to be on the back side of mange....I think here in the southern part they could survive...then I have seen the blue rat tailed suckers that you would think they could not make it through the week...
Another thought. A coyote eats on a dead beef that has been treated with Ivomec and has heart worms....does it kill em?
[ September 25, 2008, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted September 25, 2008 08:29 PM
I think a lot of factors come in play with that. First the coyote has to eat it. Like Cross J says I have found that coyotes usually won't touch a medicated bovine. Next it depends on how recently the bovine was treated with the ivomec as to wether or not there is enough residue in the body to do any good. With all that said if the coyote eats a bovine that was recently treated with ivomec I do think that its possible for the ivomec to do a coyote some good. But this is all a guess.
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted September 25, 2008 10:42 PM
Does anyone have any HARD facts from a biology type on how long the mange will run? I have heard in texas from 20-25yrs. In ND we seen it run in cycles from year to year but in WY it's just starting to show up prevelent in my area.
Prairie Ghost
www.coyotehunter.net
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted September 26, 2008 07:22 AM
Geordie: "Wiley E, the mite that causes mange in hogs is not the same as causes mange in canines. Mites are host specific, like lice. They could possibly share the same traits as far as life cycle goes, except, they dont lay eggs outside the host dermous."
Thanks for the information Geordie.
~SH~
[ September 26, 2008, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted September 27, 2008 01:10 AM
checked out that link coyote whacker harvest grain mites? I been hauling tons of that grain been literally covered in chaff dust...Dont know whats been making me itch !
Leonard, "hi-top hush puppies" thats funny right there I dont care who you are...LOL
Posts: 241 | From: SE IDAHO | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 27, 2008 08:57 AM
High top Hush Puppies are funny, was Scott's labeling, I can't take credit. What's even funnier is that (judging by his response), I don't think he realizes that those (so called) Hush Puppies and my combat boots are one and the same?
At least the fashion statement is a little more Macho, than when Vic wore his Mexican Wrestler's sneakers for his Video debut! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 27, 2008 10:52 AM
With all the Army around here, those boots are easy to come by and, dare I say, some of the most comfortable hiking boots a guy can wear, but they sure suck in cactus country. Whether it's the cordura or the flimsy leather they use, those spines go through and through easier than they should.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 27, 2008 11:36 AM
"At least the fashion statement is a little more Macho, than when Vic wore his Mexican Wrestler's sneakers for his Video debut!"
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I remember those funny sneakers in the video, but didn't realize that they were Mexican WRESTLING sneakers. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted September 28, 2008 03:04 PM
humans have mites in their hair,eyebrows and beds normally.. Mites are very diversified little creatures. Ivomec would work on coyotes as I have used it on my dogs. For a coyote to consume treated dead animals would probably not work since the correct dosage could not be consumed at one time. I remember dosage was important to get control.We used an injectable Ivomec. . could cause death in canines with heart worms as that was a concern when we off label treated our dogs. In the areas east of the appalachia mountains there is an aerial program that drops treated cubes in widespread areas to control rabies in the raccoon population. It is a huge expensive program but seems to be effective in containing the rabies.. Maybe we could get them to treat our coyotes for mange.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted September 28, 2008 03:13 PM
Crossj , what do you think would cause a recovery from mange other that treatment. Don't all stages of the live cycle exist in the normal progression of the infestation.We would have to spray treat at intervals corresponding to the life cycle in order to get control. One treatment did not eliminate. I don't know what might break that cycle.I dealt with it so long in livestock and while it may be host specific they still have similarites in symptoms and treatment.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 28, 2008 05:20 PM
I recal an aerial program in Texas, some years ago, dropping cubes, but I think it was for distemper, but maybe rabies or Parvo? I don't know if it is rare or common, but I wonder about the effectiveness?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 28, 2008 07:21 PM
If you can talk the gubmint into dropping mange curing cubes from the air, maybe they can drop them from flying pigs because the day that anyone agrees to try and cure something that kills coyotes will be the day that pigs fly. LOL Somehow, I just don't see that happening.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 28, 2008 07:58 PM
The mange has been here since the 80's and you just have to wait and let it run its course..
In the last couple of years it has seemed to be getting better, have been seeing alot less of it..
We do have a few pockets the produce a few mangey coyotes yet but we hit that area hard last winter and will see if it clears up.
Some sections produce coyotes everyear with mange and maybe comeing from useing same den or pipe.
I have seen coyotes and fox all winter long and into the spring that have mange and the cold weather dose'nt kill them all. Those that do make it to spring usually die from infections and what not.. I have never seen one recover from it either, not saying that they can't recover, just have'nt seen it is all..
As far as coon getting it it could be possable but have never seen it in coon. Some have some rubbed spots by the legs and so on, we call them kennel sores..
Question for those that are getting mange in youre areas??? What type of cover are these coyotes liveing in ????
Another question: For those that skin, do you see alot more fleas on coyotes comeing from certain areas as well...
Those that are getting the mange you better get used to it youre in for a long haul... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted September 28, 2008 08:28 PM
6mm, I dont know what could be enabling a recovery. I also cant say for sure that any infected coyotes have recovered. I have killed a couple that seemed to have regrowth, and lacked the open sores. I would guess, that if there is a survival rate, it is very small.
Yes, an infected animal will have all life cycles of the mite present. Chemicals such as prolate used on hogs, will only kill the mature mites. Ivermectin, has a residual effect, and will kill larvae that have not emerged from the skin also.
As far as what could 'cure' a coyote in the wild, it would have to be something that totally rid the host of mites. If it were to happen, it could possibly be something that did not allow the eggs to hatch, or something that weakened the larvae preemergance; all a guess.
There appears to be very little research done on mange in coyotes. Given Cdogs flying pig observation, I doubt there will be much research either.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 29, 2008 06:36 AM
Leonard, The cubes dropped were likely for rabies. Thats the only ones I know about.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 29, 2008 07:12 AM
quote:
Another question: For those that skin, do you see alot more fleas on coyotes comeing from certain areas as well...
Absolutely. Some areas, I'd almost swear the coyotes don't even have fleas. Other areas, I end up picking the damn things out of my beard and have them jumping around in my hat every time after skinning.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted September 29, 2008 07:20 AM
Some pics of mangy iowa coyotes shot in the last week or so.
9/27, 18.5lb male
[IMG]http://render-2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3Axxr%3D0-qpDofRt7Pf7mrPfrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQJQxelaxQaQxv8uOc5xQQQeQQQnaJ00QqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHS Hqqy7XH6gX0QJQe%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442[/IMG]
9/20, 32lb male
[IMG]http://render-2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3Axxr%3D0-qpDPfRt7Pf7mrPfrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQJQxelaxQaQxv8uOc5xQQQeQQPQPalnnqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHS Hqqy7XH6gX0Q0no%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442[/IMG]
Edit, looks like snapfish pics don't work..., not that it matters, we've all seen mangy coyotes, seen one, seen them all...
Is there any truth to the logic that mange is a sign of over population or that they are easier to call?
Anyway, two coyotes that won't be cold this winter. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
later,
scruffy
[ September 29, 2008, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 29, 2008 09:02 AM
scruffy,
My western Iowa area has never been what I would describe as over poulated with coyotes. Mange, and possible Parvo & distemper has still taken a sad toll on the coyotes here.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 29, 2008 09:06 AM
Let's see? First, Geordie seems to know a hell of a lot about the subject. Is he a Vet? I thought he was a welder or a fabricator?
Second, I agree with Dave, I hardly ever see mange or fleas in my areas.
Third, Cal, you must be right? They woulodn't go to the trouble unless it was a serious situation. I know they did it, just don't know if it was rabies, but that makes the most sense....although I don't see how eating a cube would cure a coyote or a dog of rabies?
Fourth: quote:
Is there any truth to the logic that mange is a sign of over population or that they are easier to call? scruffy
I doubt the first assumption, maybe, on the second?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted September 29, 2008 09:23 AM
They were dropping cubes and gunning with helicopters in a couple of counties we were in last year. I am talking about Texas and rabies. More or less shot everything that moved including 8 cats right around the bunk house we were sleeping in.
It was a real bad outbreak of rabies there.It is my understanding that the cubes prevented an animal from getting it. Did not cure.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 29, 2008 03:39 PM
Yep, there is still no known cure. The baits have a preventative. Mostly for coons and skunks, but I suppose any varmint might eat them. They are mostly fish meal.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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