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Author
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Topic: The Adaptive Coyote...
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 08, 2006 12:16 PM
2dogs, Q will surely do a better job of explaining this when he sees it, but he only does the S&S thing when he sees one that looks like the odds are better to sneak in on it rather than setting up to call. He keeps all options on the tabel as opportunities present themselves, and is equally effective at each. He'll make every heroic effort to sneak to within chipshot range if at all possible. Likely that you do the same thing, I presume. But, there are some pretty extreme differences between the area he hunts and areas like you and I hunt. For one, there aren't roads everywhere. He can make a 10-mile loop and not cross a road in some areas. He might see a coyote while on a walkabout and put the sneak on him because wherever that coyote is headed is likely harder to access than what he wants to commit time to.
Me? If I see a coyote just out and about, my first thought is where is it headed. My second, do I have permission to call there? If so, I let him go on about his business and head where he's headed to, go around the backside of that place, sneak in and be hiding there when he arrives. Those coyotes are far from uncallable and I made coats out of several this past season using that very strategy. The hail Mary's only serve to wise up already nervous coyotes, or result in crippling hits in the rare case when someone doesn't miss cleanly due in large part to either poor shot placement or a severe lack of kinetic energy upon impact. Not saying you... just stating the odds. Fact is, and my area is the same as yours, you guys seem to lay a lot of the blame for uncallable coyotes at the feet of dogwagons when spray-and-pray gunmen are probably more of the problem. Most of the dog men around here hold the same contempt for us as we do for them because,in their opinion, we cripple a lot of coyotes with bad shots.
Like Leonard, I'm open minded and try to stay objective about how other guys choose to hunt and kill their coyotes. It's the guys that miss a lot, weird out a lot of coyotes making them harder for other guys to shoot, and those that can't find the patience to seek out high percentage shot opportunities or who nicely refuse to use techniques that result in better success rates that pet me wrong.
One last thing about Q... if he did consider spot and stalk his primary means of killing coyotes, I ( and anyone else that's seen that guy shoot) can assure who it would have absolutely NO deleterious effect on his end of season totals. I've seen that boy rack up kills on running coyotes, quartering away, at 580+ yards. Therefore, and no offense intended, attempting to defend your frequency of misses by citing the fact that Quinton S&S's, too, just doesn't apply much in this case. Don't know if that's where you were headed with that, but that's kind of how I saw it.
Oh,... and for the record, I made my single lifetime best shot this winter. Called a female in that I'd seen on the snow just before good sunlight and she tried to circle me to get my wind. I took a 200 yard shot and missed. She ran quartering away and I took a second miss at her. The third shot went as she was approaching the river's edge and a certain escape. Caught her behind the left shoulder with the exit out the right side of the neck just fore of the scapula. 375 yards, give or take, ranged by Rockie Boots. I thought it was an incredible shot and was rightfully proud of myself. Until two days later when I missed a gimme at under 150. Huh? My gun hadn't been knocked around since the longshot two days prior, so I went to the range. At a hundred, off the bench, I was 2-inches right and 4.5-inches high. Moral to the story? That coyote was meant to die. If I'd have missed with the third shot, I'm all but certain a bolt of lightning would have come from the heavens and blown her all to hell, right there on the spot. So, instead of calling that my personal "best" shot, I now consider it my personal "luckiest" shot. Would I take it again? No. The only reason I took it then was because the guy that owned that place lost 20 lambs last year and I don't pass up a chance to be "lucky" given an opportunity.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted March 08, 2006 12:22 PM
Leonard, I agree with everything you said. I'm also glad Krusty has stuck it out, I've gottent a ton of call information, materials, and a very nice call and lanyard from him. His generosity has literally changed the way I call and hunt.
I just like to know where I stand. If you guys don't want to hear stories of coyotes holing up in snow banks on a man made lake, think it's BS, I'd like to know that. Kind of like you comment to 2dogs on specifics, I'm just trying to find where to draw the line with this "audience". I've learned there are times when I should just save my breath, LOL. Life is too short IMHO. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
2dogs, according to UPS tracking the "new" versa pod 9-12" bipod with swivel and pan adjustments/locks will be here tomorrow. I'll have to look at your pics of your versa with the "skis" more closely. I'm going to try to come up with a removeable set for mine for next winter's snow (since it looks like it's rain here on out this winter...). I'm thinking maybe wood and surgical tubing for the prototype.
later,
scruffy
[ March 08, 2006, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 08, 2006 02:10 PM
That deserves mention. Those feet on his bipod for shooting on snow is a good idea.
I see nothing wrong with talking about coyotes tunneling into snowbanks. In fact, maybe that would explain a few that have suddenly popped up on me, before?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted March 08, 2006 02:28 PM
Leonard, have you seen any of the clips on the deer hunting shows on the outdoor channel and such where a buck or doe is walking, gets nervous, then all the sudden a coyote that was burried under a drift of snow jumps out at the deer and they both run/chase off?
Pretty interesting! Is the coyote under/in the drift hunting off of sound and/or scent?
The clips looked to be a coyote ambush setup. The holes in the snow on the ice at Red Rock were more for "bedding".
I was invited to go with them last year to "call on the ice" but declined the offer. I'm not much for walking on ice covered lakes.
Speaking of ice, the wife just called, ground is covered with hail back at the homestead.... Dang screwy weather... ![[Mad]](mad.gif) Why can't it just snow or rain...
later,
scruffy
[ March 08, 2006, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 08, 2006 03:12 PM
scruffy,
Have you and 2dogs tried catching one of those coyotes out there on the ice? You know, like saw a hole in the ice and sprinkle a can of peas all around it. When coyote comes in to take a pea, you just kick him in the ice hole. That is a secret set out near Gillette, Wyoming.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted March 08, 2006 04:07 PM
LOL,..Damn you,Rich! I laughed so hard i slobberd snuff down my shirt ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted March 09, 2006 06:31 AM
Rich, no we haven't tried that. You likely won't ever find me on the ice anyway. Just not my thing.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 09, 2006 10:34 AM
Hey you guys can leave me out of it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm lost, it's like standing there listening to magicians argue, it's all way beyond my understanding (just like you flatlanders cannot know what hunting the woods here is like).
With statements like "I always stalk a spotted coyote whenever I can rather than try to call it. It keeps the odds in my favor. Q" it makes it even harder to comprehend what the heck each dude is doing (or that both kinds of S&S are not the same... both guys do it believing it will improve their odds (to be quiet?))?
For my own self, in my own situation, I too believe there is merit to silently waiting it out, instead of lessening my odds by calling.
I am trying to figure that out, with my new tree stand.
quote:
...if you think he is picked on, you should see some of the flack directed at Krusty
Leonard,
Do I detect a sense of pride in there? I don't know how to take that... 
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 09, 2006 01:32 PM
"I always stalk a spotted coyote whenever I can rather than try to call it."
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Krusty,
I can't say that I have ever seen a spotted coyote.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 09, 2006 03:03 PM
Rich,
I never have either... it must be because we're callers?
Q did say the odds of stalking them are better.
Amen, and pygmies, and all that...
Krusty
P.S. Geeze, pickin' on poor Q, for his poor grammar... I knew there was a reason I liked you.
[ March 09, 2006, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted March 09, 2006 05:12 PM
Krusty,
Q hasn't even posted on this thread ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
In any case..
This calls for a big ole group hug
[ March 09, 2006, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: MULE ]
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 09, 2006 05:14 PM
Krusty,
Spotted man, spotted. Like in dalmation or dot to dot coyotes. Shessh!
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 09, 2006 05:26 PM
Don't worry, Rich. Some of us "got" it.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 09, 2006 07:39 PM
MULE,
I don't do group hugs.
Q has been the subject of this thread, and Lance said he might have something to say, I thought what he already said seemed relevant.
And if he does have something to say, maybe that will give him someplace to work from.
Other than the amount of roads and therefore the amount of walking, I don't see much difference (because the whole concept is so foreign to me).
I don't understand how and why Q or Vic can be in-freakin'-credibly good shots, and 2D can't?
Rich and Leonard,
I got it...
Spotted (ie polka-dotted) coyotes don't respond to the call, the odds are better of stalking them, that's why I never seen one either.
Lookin' at himself in the mirror has obviously ruined Cronk's vision, so he'd never spot one out there in the flatlands anyways.
Heck, they might be a supersecret subspecies of coyote (the subject of a billion dollar study), Higgy won't tell us about?
They live underground, on worms and grubs, for the entire denning season, in a hole the size of a sewer cap in the bank of a river (that smells like garlic)... so Q hangs up his guns and goes back to the sixth grade edjumication that has eluded him, like my first coyote has me.
Had Q used commas, the joke still could have been done.
I don't have much else to rattle Q's cage (back) with besides his words, and the poor assemblage thereof.
I got it. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) 
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted March 09, 2006 08:14 PM
Ya know what I think?
It doesn't matter what I think.
But if it did
I would have to say that tall brunette on the left..the one the cut blonde is hanging on.
Is freakin' HOT!
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 09, 2006 08:40 PM
MULE,
The one with the "manly" hands? The "cut blonde"?
You wanna know what I think? I ain't sayin', and I ain't sitting next to you at the campfire either.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 09, 2006 09:37 PM
the one with the huge jugs gets my vote.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted March 10, 2006 09:48 AM
Krusty
Manly hands? What the feck are you talking about?
Sorry for the typo...I meant CUTE blonde
I see in all the time I have been gone you have become the site "school marm".
Don't worry about sitting next to me at the campfire. Already got a designated seat for you....right next to Q
Leonard
You got Xray vision? I can't see no boobies ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 10, 2006 10:07 AM
With reguards to the topic of camo, wear it if you got it, dont worry if you don't. In the western states i wear desert brown camo, at home i wear what ever i got on at the time. If you look close at pic. you will notice I'm wearing a orange cap, do you think the coyotes noticed it. If they did it was to late, thats why they are dead. 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5065 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 10, 2006 10:45 AM
quote:
Leonard
You got Xray vision? I can't see no boobies
Happy Thoughts!
[ March 10, 2006, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 10, 2006 11:01 AM
MULE,
Yeah, her (slightly) hairy forearm, and thickly viened hand seem a little "tuff" to me (compared to say, the CUTE blonde's hand), but hey to each his own.
I am far from a "school marm". Notice I didn't bother to correct Q's grammar (or your typo)?
You were gone, or here before, or something?
Rich made the first joke (with grammar), I just ran with the theme.
Either way, I was just funnin' with you guys. Sheesh!?!
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 10, 2006 11:51 AM
TARem17, first of all, a coyote sees in the blue spectrum, not the red. Your flourescent orange cap appears gray to the coyote.
Your photo proves my contention that camo is a concept not a color or pattern. What busts a caller is directing a coyotes attention to a human form or shape. Your gray watch cap will direct a coyotes attention to a large frog taking a dump, which will confound and confuse the coyote long enough for you to take a leisurely shot.
Great camo ,Sir.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 10, 2006 11:52 AM
you guys shure talk about those sheep and chaps alot,makes me wonder. LOL.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5065 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 10, 2006 12:47 PM
TA, I think they are kidding, at least I hope so? (I'm told we are writing a NOVEL, here?)
By the way, very nice brace of coyotes. God, do I hate pulling cold stiff coyotes!
Good huting. LB
[ March 10, 2006, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted March 10, 2006 11:37 PM
Yes I have spotted and stalked coyotes but I have never stalked a “spotted” coyote before. LOL I have spotted them from the pickup and then stalked them. I have spotted them from the pickup and rolled down the window and shot them. Hell, sometimes I have to get out and lay across the hood. I am not proud I will usually take what I can get just like every other coyote hunter out there.
While out calling I will spot coyotes bedded or hunting sometimes and will stalk within range and then either shoot the coyote or try to squeak him up a bit closer. It all depends on the range and wind direction or even how the ground lays. Bottom line is I will handle each situation as I see fit. In another post I did say that if I spot a coyote I would rather stalk it than call it because it keeps the odds in my favor.
I feel that when a coyote is bedded he is venerable because I take over the full role of being the hunter rather than sharing the role with the coyote as I would in a calling situation. Secondly, there is no telling what a coyote will do after he hears the call. He may come, he may go and he may just sit there. Sunning coyotes in midday will often just sit there. If the coyote leaves, you lose. If the coyote just sits there you could lose. “Could” being the operative word.
The problem with calling coyotes you have already seen is that if they don’t come in to the call you have just effectively pinned yourself down. If a coyote knows you are there or something is there he will focus much of his attention in your direction. This will make your last option (the stalk) more difficult.
My aim is that if I see a coyote I will get as close to it as I feel comfortable. After that I will either take my shot or I will squeak it up. The most important thing to me is to be within range of the coyote so whether he decides to come, stay or leave I still have a chance of skinning him.
Now, that same principle applies to one of my favorite calling strategies. The sneak, peak and squeak. This is effectively the same concept except I do not know for sure if or where the coyote is. Most callers/hunters have a specialty or a certain knack for something and mine would be reading structure. I really specialize in hunting structure and have adopted the sneak, peak and squeak system to accommodate it.
How it works is I will identify a series of drainages or bank of sand hills or a stretch of creek or river bottom that I feel holds coyotes. I will sneak into a likely spot that overlooks some potential hiding spots for coyotes and I will look (peak) until I am satisfied nothing is in view or has seen me. From there I will either lip squeak or squeak on my PeeWee. I will usually adjust my volume to the conditions but I try not to let it reach out much past my effective shooting range.
Coyotes will do the same thing whether you have spotted them or not. They will either come or leave or just sit there. The only thing that you can bank on is that they will look. When everything goes right they are screwed no matter what they decide to do because of the way I have set things up.
I am out to kill coyotes so I do not limit my self to one particular style or method. Yes there is a couple of styles I like to use when I can like the one above because of it’s effectiveness BUT there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is just to many variables you have to deal with to dedicate your self to only one means. To get the most coyotes out of your area I think it is very important to be well rounded and versed.
About the camouflage issue that was bought up on another thread, rather than dig up that thread I will just take the liberty of addressing it here. I don’t mean to hijack the thread but considering how many times my name has came up I’ll take the chance. LOL
NO I don’t where camouflage well almost never but kind of. Honestly the last time I wore the full attire was when Rich came up to film me. I figured that I had better dress the part if I was going to be on television. LOL When I am prone and behind the rifle it really doesn’t matter what I am wearing because I am elevated above my shooting field. When I kill a coyote he is generally 100 yards or beyond also. My camo is my Carhartts, which possibly to my advantage happens to be of natural colors. Lance affectionately called them a “friggin' train wreck.” LOL Thanks buddy! LOL
The colors are neutral; I am no more than 12/14 inches off the ground and am elevated. Mission accomplished. For my area and my style of hunting Carhartts are as good as anything going. It has been said a thousand times and maybe more that silhouetting and movement is what gives you away and I agree. If you need camo to help mask movements or your silhouette in your area then you are smart to use it. For my money I would skip the fancy patterns and find some of the leafy wear stuff that matches the shades of your hunting area. That or go all out and get a ghilly. (spelling?)
I am just the opposite of a lot of callers in the fact that I do not want coyotes close. One hundred yards is just right. This space allows me a greater range of movement with out being detected and it is easier to fallow a moving target (laying prone) at that distance than it would be at 25 to 50 yards. Every area you hunt in is different I suppose and will have it’s own requirements but for the areas I hunt camo is no necessity.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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