This is topic .22 lr for coyote and foxes? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000324
Posted by Jim B (Member # 343) on May 26, 2004, 02:44 PM:
Hi all
I have just found an area that has coyotes, no one hunting it, and free access....... That is the good news.
The bad news is that I am limited to the dates of and the weapons allowed for the game that is currently in season at the moment. Ie if it is squirrel season then I can hunt with the weapon and ammunition allowed for squirrel hunting.
The area that I have will (according to last years dates) let me hunt from the 1st day of Sept. untill the last day of Feb. There is no large game available on this property so I am legally restricted to any rimfire rifle of .22 calibre or smaller.
Given that choice would a .22lr or a .17hmr be the better choice?
Thanks
Jim B.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2004, 03:38 PM:
Well, if you have no other choice....and I never said it, okay? 22Mag.
Good luck, LB
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on May 26, 2004, 03:40 PM:
it seems that shotguns would be a weapon choice in these areas.
I would go the scatter gun route with some hevi shot coyote loads....
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 26, 2004, 03:54 PM:
Hands down, the 17HMR.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2004, 05:53 PM:
I could have predicted Vic's response......
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on May 26, 2004, 06:58 PM:
choices choices choices....
if it has to be rimfire... then listen to the postman..azhunter;
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on May 26, 2004, 07:34 PM:
If you are a GOOD off hand shot, and can acquire and fire on a target quickly. Go with the 17 HMR, otherwise, you'd be better off ( In my opinion at least ) shooting a shotgun with #4 buck.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 27, 2004, 06:25 AM:
Hey, I'd of opted for the shotgun too Leonard ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
....but he said it was between the 22LR or a 17 HMR. That isnt much of a choice, so I went with the BB gun.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on May 27, 2004, 04:38 PM:
AZ Hunter... If we all paid attention to the details and only try and answer the question as it was asked, there would be less things to discuss in these threads.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Jim B (Member # 343) on May 27, 2004, 05:37 PM:
Norm
My father used to be an instructor on the electronics package for the Hawk and Nike missile systems. He gave me a little advice on time on how to answer the questions that his students posed.
He said that he would answer the exact question as it was presented to him. He said that thee were plenty of "odd" questions posed and he had learned that the students wanted those exact questions answered no matter how off the wall they were. Then he would present an answer to the question that he thought they really meant.
That has stuck with me over the years. Whenever someone poses a question I first answer within the scope of the question itself.
Jim B.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 27, 2004, 06:29 PM:
With that in mind, Jim B, my answer conveyed the impression that I didn't like your choices by suggesting a third alternative. As others have said, a shotgun with #4buck is a deadly combination on coyote, and one that I recommend, although you didn't ask.
Bottom line is that a coyote can carry off more lead than a junk wagon, so that 17HMR and 22RF are below marginal, in my opinion. You are asking a very difficult question when almost every experienced predator hunter will tell you that you need a centerfire performance to cleanly kill a coyote. People aren't comfortable recommending a gun they wouldn't personally use, especially for a newbie. So, my honest opinion, (in good conscience) is that you shouldn't hunt coyotes with either cartridge, to be blunt.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Jim B (Member # 343) on May 28, 2004, 05:17 AM:
Leonard
Thanks for the reply.
I dont get my feeling hurt too easily and I havent this time either.
I am interested in learning so I ask a lot of questions. An honest answer never bothers me.
I may decide that the rimfires are just below the cutoff point to use for coyotes and may not even set up on the WMA.
I am pretty sure that buckshot would not be a legal recourse for me either. I am restricted to the arms and ammunitions for small game on a Wildlife management area. Ie... if squirrel season is in then I can arm myself with the arms and ammunition that is legal to hunt squirrel with and then set up for coyote, fox, etc. There is no large game season on this particular WMA. If there were then I could forego the concept of a shotgun and use my .223 or .243.
The coyote population on the WMA is not hunted at all and I have a very limited selection of weapons and ammo available to me.
I do understand that the rimfires are less than ideal.
Let me rephrase just a little bit.
Will a .22 or .17 penetrate to the vitals in a behind the shoulder shot for the heart and lungs?
Thanks Jim
[ May 28, 2004, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: Jim B ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 28, 2004, 03:32 PM:
The response, from experienced hunters is that a coyote will run off and die somewhere. You may recover, or maybe not? Not good. The 17HRM, I can't say for sure? It might flatten a few coyotes, and others might light out for the next county.
A few years ago, I talked to a friend that used a 22lr in a special application, and he said the yelping and spinning made him quit. He was calling them very close and making only head shots. He has probably killed more coyotes than I have, and I trust his judgement....not enough gun.
You will not kill every coyote, outright, even if you are very careful. Personally, I'd guess that you would lose at least half. I don't like those odds.
Some people hate coyotes, but I'm not one of them. They deserve a clean kill, as does every other game animal. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you?
Good luck, LB
Posted by Saddlemaker (Member # 321) on June 03, 2004, 10:16 PM:
Jim,
Both the 22lr and the 17HMR may penetrate the chest cavity if you miss the point of the shoulder and are not deflected by a rib. This could also be true of a deer. A 22 mag is good medicine for fox and maybe bobcat.
Leonard is telling you like it is. As much as you may be tempted you should not use a rimfire on coyotes if you feel they are a great game animal. If they allow you to use shotguns for small game in that area it would be a good challenge for you to set up in just the right location and cover to make the distance appropriate for a shotgun with a magnum charge of BB's with the animals head as your target.
Always remember, a wounded coyote or ferral dog can become a stock killer.
Walt
Posted by Jim B (Member # 343) on June 04, 2004, 01:15 AM:
OK Guys, I get the message. The .22 is inadequate for coyote and should not be used. I will just have to forego this area because of the restrictions.
I CANNOT USE A SHOTGUN WITH ANY SHOT SIZE LARGER THAN STANDARD #4 SHOT AND I CANNOT USE ANY CENTERFIRE RIFLE. I CANNOT USE ANY BUCKSHOT AT ALL. I MUST USE THAT WHICH IS LEGAL AMMUNITION FOR GREY SQUIRRELS OR RABBITS. IF I HAD A CHOICE IN ARMS AND AMMUNITION THAT WOULD ALLOW ME TO USE BUCKSHOT IN A SHOTGUN IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW ME TO USE A CENTER FIRE RIFLE. THE .22 WAS NOT A WEAPON OF FIRST CHOICE. IT IS ALL THAT IS ALLOWED TO ME.
Thanks
Jim
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 04, 2004, 05:30 AM:
Jim,
An easy way around the restrictions is to circle the public land and talk to land owners who border it. Find one who will let you hunt on their property. Even a little 5 acre lot is enough for calling, and predators don't care about property lines. If they think there is a free meal to be had on the other side of a fence, they hesitate only long enough to find a way though the fence.
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on June 30, 2004, 01:18 PM:
I would opt for the 17HMR. The one I have, and from listening to others, will shoot rings around any 22MAG (in fact I have a 22 MAG for sale if anyone interested). With the 17HMR, you can hit exactly where you aim. You MUST keep shot placement as the foremost concern, but the 17 will hit exactly where you want it to.
[ June 30, 2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 30, 2004, 03:12 PM:
Actually Jim, if you are disciplined enough to restrict your shots to 40 yards and minus you might want to take a look at Remington's "Hevi-shot". varmit hunter did some experimentation with it for the boys that developed it before they sold rights to Rem. and he said that #4 shot (not buck) penetrated a coyotes skull at I believe 60 yards.
Ronnie you around?
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on June 30, 2004, 09:22 PM:
Rich, You beat me to it. I have killed lots of coyotes through the years with lead 4' (bird shot) and even steel 2's. I used to do a lot of duck hunting and alway's had them laying around. The Hevi-Shot 4's would be a good choice and at least to me would be a better alternative than the rimfires. They would also give you a larger margin for error. Get a box and pattern them with different chokes to see what they will do. That Hevi-Shot is a good penatrator.
Byron
[ June 30, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
Posted by coyote_9 (Member # 354) on July 01, 2004, 04:36 PM:
A 22 just don't get it. Way to small and no punch. And all the glory about the 17HMR, a necked down 22mag, thats all it is.It is fast but cant stand next to the 22mag for impact. It is a overpriced squrell gun. I had a winchecter mod 94 17hmr, and I was very disappointed in its performance. I hit 7 yots at less then 100 yards and they kept going. I found 4 after a long walk. Just dont have the punch needed. Now on the other hand my 22mag has many coyotes and fox in its life and most have been in the 75-125 yard range. Sorry, but the 17 will never replace the 22mag as the manufactures have tried to sell. Its not to bad on fox at a 100 yards. It is a costly gun for the limited use you get from it. My win 94 was about $390.00, way to much. I exspected more and got less.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 01, 2004, 04:48 PM:
Welcome coyote_9, I like a man with strong opinions and is not afraid of a little controversy. Good luck.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2004, 05:23 PM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, coyote_9. Glad to have you aboard.
As to your opinion on the subject at hand, I couldn't agree more.
Good hunting. LB
PS okay, to nitpick, maybe 125 yards is pushing it for a 22 Mag, except in the hands of an expert from a steady rest, at a stationary animal?
Posted by coyote_9 (Member # 354) on July 02, 2004, 06:28 AM:
Thanks guys for the welcome!
The long shots I have made or tried to make with the 22mag are off a bipod on a hard surffice.My mag is a 8 year old Savage(Lakefeild) made in canada, it has been a very good rifle. It has remained to be very accurite. I shoot only CCI maxi-mag 40gr hollow point rounds. I have tried the maxi-mag+V and I think they tend to wander after 75 yards. They are the 30gr. rounds. I have tried Federal, Winchester and I always come back to the maxi-mag of CCI!
But as with any firearm, your shot placement is #1. A 7mm mag will blow right through a yot at 200 yards if your shot placement is off.
My 17 was a dissipointment as it was sold as the next generation 22mag, NOT! It has a place, not sure where, but it may stick around, but I think it will fall away as some other off shoot calibers have over the years. I think at one time the 6mm was brought out to replace the 243 well, you see witch one still remaines.
Just some thoughts from an old fart!
[ July 02, 2004, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: coyote_9 ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 12:57 PM:
You old farts just can see the 17 round so your affraid of it .
The 17 is quite a little round that is diminutive in size but very surprising round.
I have never lost a coyote that I have hit with the 17HMR. I don't however use it exclusively. The largest coyote I have taken was taken with the 17HMR, however, after getting a close look at him, I vowed not to hunt for coyotes in that area again with just the 17, wouldn't want to piss one of them off.
Almost forgot (well, did actually, had to edit post)
Welcome Coyote_9
From another old fart.
[ July 04, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: DOD ]
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0