This is topic So which spooks a coyote? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on July 29, 2008, 01:05 PM:
 
The rifle report or the whiz of the bullet whistling by? Both?

[ July 29, 2008, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Cranky Farmer ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 02:36 PM:
 
It's the snap.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 02:39 PM:
 
Cranky Farmer,

The report of a rifle doesn't usually spook game, be it deer or coyote. My guess is that it is the sound of a bullet whizzing by, the bullet striking a nearby object or something. I suppose the report of a rifle going off at 20 yards or so would spook them, but not the report of a rifle that went off 100 yards away.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on July 29, 2008, 04:29 PM:
 
Cranky just think of it this way, if i fired a blank at 200 yards vs. at load with a bullet at a coyote. Both may spook the coyote but the object whizzin by his head, kickin up crap around him, before he ever hears the muzzle blast spooks him. You will see at times on windy days at longer distances a coyote on occasion if you shoot high not spook and give you a second chance. A sightor you might say.

We have a law enforcement range nearby and those coyotes near it are not afraid of muzzleblasts etc. Very easy to take multiples there compared to the open prairie.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 29, 2008, 04:35 PM:
 
Isn't the animal or ground hit by the projectile before it hears the sound?

posted after RR had... Just an observation...

[ July 29, 2008, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 04:40 PM:
 
Okay, look. There is a distinct sound of a high velocity bullet passing close to you, I call it a snap. in some cases, if the animal is close, the boom completely drowns out the snap, but at (say) 100 yards, the animal hears the snap before the report....unless as has been said, you kick up dirt, etc. But if it doesn't touch ground near by, he reacts to the snap.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on July 29, 2008, 05:42 PM:
 
A bullet doesn't necassarily have to even come close to most coyotes I've seen, just the report will make them "react", but the closer the bullet is to them the more obvious the "reaction" is.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 06:53 PM:
 
You guys need to spend some time pulling targets in the pits. You don't hear much of the report, but you sure can hear those bullets breaking the sound barrier as they pass overhead.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on July 29, 2008, 07:13 PM:
 
In all the years that I chased coyotes with grey hounds, we chased hundreds of coyotes out of cover, and the bullets hit the ground just outside of the truck door, yet the coyotes come out on the run.
Of all the years I've hunted pheasant, deer, or any other critters, I've witnessed many a coyote come out of cover, but yet never had a bullet whiz by them.
 

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Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 29, 2008, 07:19 PM:
 
A high velocity bullet does not whiz as it goes by. It has a definate crack to it. This is the sound barrier being broken as it passes. As Leonard stated, standing in the pits at 600 yards and having 200+ bullets pass within a few feet over your head during a 20 minute span will require ear muffs. The report of the guns going off 600 yards away is hardly noticeble.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 07:57 PM:
 
I have heard that old statement many times. "It ain't the bullet striking the target that you hear, it is the bullet breaking the sound barrier". I can hear my bullet strike the target at 100 yards, but if there is no paper for said bullet to hit, I hear no "snap". Have any of you guys layed in the pit and have someone shoot over you with no target for the bullet to strike? I don't think you would hear the famous "snap". If I am wrong, well it wouldn't be the first time.
 

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Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 29, 2008, 08:15 PM:
 
Yes I have heard bullets snap by with no impact. It is a snap. You can not hear the snap from the shooting position. You must be on the receiving end.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 29, 2008, 08:48 PM:
 
Randy is correct. The "snap" or "crack" is the sonic wave passing an object. Stand behind a BIG tree and have someone you trust fire a high velocity big bore past you at different angles past the the tree. The closer the bullet passes the object, in this case the tree, the louder the crack. Higher velocity causes a louder snap. A 22-250 is noticeably louder than a 223. My 22-250AI sounds like a firecracker popping next to the tree.
A bullet that narrowly misses a coyote would sound like a small firecracker going off next to him.
Before you say nay, stand behind the tree and find out for yourself.
 

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Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on July 29, 2008, 08:54 PM:
 
LOL...I'll take your word for it Rich, hell with trusting anyone other than my wife....and she can't shoot

JD
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 29, 2008, 08:57 PM:
 
J.D. that's one reason God made very big trees.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 08:58 PM:
 

quote:

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Randy is correct. The "snap" or "crack" is the sonic wave passing an object.
says Higgins

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Yes thanks for clearing that up, Higgins. I was a little confused.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on July 29, 2008, 09:05 PM:
 
Where in the heck did you ever find a tree out there in that arid desert to test this theory?

Hell, I think the last time I was there was the first time I ever seen a cloud pass over Arizona, let alone find a tree big enough to let someone shoot past me.

JD
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 29, 2008, 09:12 PM:
 
Would it be louder if the bullet was going twice or 3 times the speed of sound?

[ July 29, 2008, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 29, 2008, 09:50 PM:
 

quote:

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Would it be louder if the bullet was going twice or 3 times the speed of sound?

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quote:

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Where in the heck did you ever find a tree out there in that arid desert to test this theory?

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Ya skipped geography class to chase coyotes, didinja J.D.?
A pretty wide swath of northern Arizona, from the Kaibab to the New Mexico border is Ponderosa forest.
Many mountain ranges in central and southern Arizona are capped in Ponderosa forest.

Dan, 2 to 3 times the speed of sound isn't particularly fast for a high steppin' varmint round. I have one that does better than Mach4. It's a good question anyway because longer and heavier aircraft like the SR71 have a quieter sonic boom than shorter lighter craft. However, a faster 55 gr. bullet from my 22 250 is louder than a 55 from my 223.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on July 30, 2008, 04:11 PM:
 
A rifle fitted with a suppressor will virtually eliminate muzzle blast but the bullet , snap, can be eliminated by loading down to sub sonic. Then you have something really quiet and I am guessing very handy for multiple coyotes. We've been talking of getting these.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2008, 04:20 PM:
 
They are illegal, Randy. At least for us ordinary citizens. We can't shoot coyotes from airplanes, either.

But, there was some chatter a while back about the 30 Whisper, which is a subsonic supressed assassin cartridge.

If I had a vote, I wouldn't allow it for your purpose; there just isn't the urgency to justify it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on July 30, 2008, 07:46 PM:
 
We've been talking about getting them, but your right about the justification.

It's a want maybe more than a need.

I would like to see one work on some coyotes first to see if it is worth the effort and $$$$ Anyone got any info.

Justification would come if it showed a guy was getting more multiple coyotes off complaints and eliminating follow trips to get the other half of the pair. Stands would possibly produce more coyotes if the trailing or coyotes off in the distance didn't hear the first shot. Sheep work, especially at nite would be nice.

Let's see night vision, suppressor, etc. etc.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 30, 2008, 08:30 PM:
 
Randy, I have a couple of friends in WS that use suppressors and night vision. Would you like a to talk to one of them?
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 30, 2008, 08:40 PM:
 
WS here has a supressed 22. It is used in closer proximity to residential areas. Can it be justified, or is it necessary? Who knows, but it is pretty cool.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 30, 2008, 08:47 PM:
 
This is a 223 with a 3rd Gen scope and suppressor.



[ July 30, 2008, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on July 30, 2008, 09:09 PM:
 
Very nice, Dan. That one of yours or does it belong to a customer?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 30, 2008, 09:36 PM:
 
It is one of mine, I use it on private property in NM where its a legal to kill problem predators at night.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 31, 2008, 04:56 AM:
 
Dan,

Do you have problems with the jackets opening if you use a subsonic round?
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 31, 2008, 09:00 AM:
 
Thinking out loud here;
If it's the 'snap' or the 'velocity crack' of the bullet passing by that spooks the coyote........ Wouldn't it make sense in the case of multiples to shoot the close one and not cause the bullet sonic boom over head(s) of the rest???
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on July 31, 2008, 09:16 AM:
 
Suppresor and Gen 3 scope. What a waste of good equipment on an AR.

Randy
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 31, 2008, 09:33 AM:
 
To the contrary Randy- That combination absolutely BEGS for an AR.



[ July 31, 2008, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 31, 2008, 10:55 AM:
 
This is a 300x221 aka 300 Whisper. It has a trajectory like a rainbow, I have missed more animals with this rifle than you can believe. I sold the damn thing. It was also set up with the NV scope and suppressor at one time. When using subsonic the bullets must be modified, I use a 60 degree center drill on the 220 grain roundnose of the 30 cal bullets and don't bother with anything but SX type bullets on the 223.


 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on July 31, 2008, 10:58 AM:
 
The answer is both.

The sound of the report of the rifle and the bullet whizzing past will both spook a coyote. You can spook a coyote with subsonic ammunition due to the report of the rifle. You can also watch a coyote run towards someone who is using a supressed rifle following the shot. These responses confirm that coyotes will react to both although not equally. The difference is that the origination of the rifle report is much easier for a coyote to detect than the origination of a bullet whizzing past or more appropriately, a bullet whizzing towards and thwopping one of a pair or one of multiple coyotes.

There's definitely an advantage to gaining multiples according to those who use them but not to the level we'd like since you still have bullet "snap" or "crack" above sub sonic velocities which can scatter remaining coyotes. There is also a "wooosh" sound associated with suppressors unlike what the movies depict. A suppressor doesn't silence, it suppresses. Certain winds, terrain, air density, and distance will dimish that suppressed muzzle report even further.

The guys who use them say that coyotes often are unaware of where the whizzing bullet noise is coming from creating confusion in the coyotes and allowing more shooting opportunities. The advantage is worth the price to those who own them and have used them but not to the point one would like.

Rich H.,

We are currently lining up 2 - 3 guys to demonstrate suppressed rifles at our annual ADC meeting. Thanks again for the information.


~SH~

[ July 31, 2008, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on July 31, 2008, 02:01 PM:
 
Anybody notice a decrease in #s of "single file multiples" coming in after the first shot of a shotgun vs lets say a 22-250?

[ July 31, 2008, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: JeremyKS ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 31, 2008, 03:31 PM:
 
Wiley E has a lot of experience with coyotes, and I believe what he says. My problem is that I have actually had three texas coyotes come in one at a time, and killed all three. I then drove a mile or so north, where I called and killed two more coyotes that came in one at a time. The report from my .25-06 obviously had no adverse effect. I once missed a hard charging incomer twice. He kept right on coming, made a hard left, and I killed him with a third shot from my .25-06. Rifle report spook him ya think? On two occasions that I recall with Iowa coyotes, I had a second coyote come in within a few seconds after the first had been shot and killed. In nebraska I once missed a coyote on the first shot. That coyote ran straight toward me, took a slight right turn and took a 100 grainer from my .257 Ackley. Rifle report scared em? I guess those south dakota coyotes act differently than the ones that I have met.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 31, 2008, 03:51 PM:
 
These three coyotes were called and killed within less than one hour. The one with the large hole in his butt was taken maybe 3 seconds after the first one showed up. The third was taken less than a mile west.


 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on July 31, 2008, 04:46 PM:
 
Rich H. yea i would like to talk to them.PM me. Thanks!!!

The suppressor reducing the muzzleblast and allowing other coyotes to keep coming to the call is the one thing i am really interested in. You might say keeping a stand alive.

Dan have you seen this?

Of course, most coyotes are going to spook somewhat standing near each other even with subsonic loads and a suppressor. Hell sometimes the click of the safety locks them on a guy.

Without that muzzleblast I have to believe the chances of another coyote coming into the call on the same stand would increase, don't know for sure though, never used one.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on July 31, 2008, 05:27 PM:
 
Rich C.,

Let me try this again.....

Quote: "The sound of the report of the rifle and the bullet whizzing past will both spook MOST coyotes."

Better?

I've seen the exception too. I was talking within the context of those coyotes that will spook. I realize some won't.

RS: "Suppresor and Gen 3 scope. What a waste of good equipment on an AR."

Haha! Fire power will never compensate for accuracy and stability will it?

Bill Austin: "When a student pulls out a mini-14, I know it's going to be a long day"

Jeremy,

Haven't noticed it but it sure could be. In a lot of the habitat we called, that brush and terrain is certainly going to absorb some of that rifle report. Shotgun may be different.

I know our East River contract pilot claims that coyotes will flush easier from cover with a rifle cracking over their heads than shooting a shotgun into the cover. I tend to believe it based on what I have seen so I guess it all depends on how that sound is absorbed on the ground.

~SH~

[ July 31, 2008, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 31, 2008, 06:08 PM:
 
At home here we use a rifle or a shotgun from time to time to flush coyotes out of heavey cover.
For rifles i use a 270 win..with a heavey bullet and for shotguns a 12 ga slug seems to work well to get the coyote to come out... From time to time we will have one thats not scared of the rifle or shotgun report so we have to go in on foot and chase them out.

Some don't want to hear it but the 17 rem. works well on more than one coyote in open country compared to my 22-250 ackley. Bigger the cartridge the louder the report..
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 31, 2008, 06:13 PM:
 
I have missed a coyotes with a suppressed rifle and watched the coyote run towards me. If the animal can't identify the source he will run from the noise he can hear.

When you are downrange of a suppressed rifle, the first sound you hear or identify is the sonic crack, which is non directional, second sound is the bullet hitting something, usually behind the target and it may make more noise than the crack.

[ July 31, 2008, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on July 31, 2008, 06:27 PM:
 
So do you think those coyotes which bug out immediately upon hearing the bullet that misses them has been shot at before?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 31, 2008, 08:02 PM:
 
Wiley E,
You have observed a lot more coyote reaction to rifle shots than me, and I know you speak true. I wonder if the coyotes in some area's react differently to gun fire? I have no doubt that some coyotes do spook at the boom of a rifle, and a supressed rifle at subsonic bullet speed would most likely be helpful.
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 01, 2008, 06:17 AM:
 

quote:

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Haha! Fire power will never compensate for accuracy and stability will it?

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Ahh, but these days you can have you cake and eat it too, speaking of todays's AR's!

No doubt a bullet and the "crack" that it delivers will move a coyote at long distance better than a shotgun blast, but as has been said, both the boom of a gun and the crack from a bullet will both spook some coyotes.

Not too long ago I witnessed a coyote stand around a little over 100 yards from the shooter for about 10 or 11 "cracks" before being struck by a passing bullet. Once again goes to show that there are no set rules with coyotes.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on August 01, 2008, 07:48 AM:
 
TRnCO: "Ahh, but these days you can have you cake and eat it too, speaking of todays's AR's!"

Old dog new tricks!

I don't doubt that ARs are more accurate than they used to be. I still prefer a bolt action for the distant shots and a shotgun for the close ones. Perhaps becoming profficient with an AR I could pack one gun instead of two. I haven't closed my mind yet but I don't see too many serious coyote hunters packing ARs. A few, but not too many.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 01, 2008, 08:25 AM:
 
I think the AR's effectiveness in calling is strongest at night, especially under NV. Outside of those conditions- It holds few characteristics I prefer over a bolt.

That being said- Mike Milli makes a gun that is hard to put down so I'll be carrying a second AR during the days this season for the first time. I ordered a case of du-rags and a few pair of Panama Jack's as well.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 01, 2008, 09:08 AM:
 
One of the problems associated with the AR platform is the owners wish to have a short barrel. They are louder than hell, to both the shooter and the animal they are shoting at. Most bolt actioned rifle have at least a 22" if not longer barrels on them. Most AR's have a 20" or less barrel on them. Most AR shooters say HUH a lot.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 01, 2008, 10:31 AM:
 
I'm sure you are right but I've never been able to hear much difference between a carbine and a 24" 22-250 or 243.

The longest AR barrel I have is a 17" Kreiger and I've had 14" contender pistols in .223 as well as a 15" 308 Win Encore pistol, all guns is loud but so is the machinery that I've been working around for 27 years.

But there are alot of people who seem to hear the difference and I do say huh? alot. If we could hunt with a can here I would.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on August 01, 2008, 11:21 AM:
 
Another advantage of the suppressor will be to minimize recoil. As it is now, when I shoot my .243, I cannot see the bullet hit due to the recoil. I hate that.

I also would like to save what little is left of my John Deere 5010 and Van Halen hearing.

~SH~

[ August 01, 2008, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 01, 2008, 11:57 AM:
 
My AR, just a lowely .204 and barely enough to do the job in some minds, has a 23" barrel plus 1" compensator. Plenty accurate and love the quick follow up shots while being able to maintain target which has helped me kill more running coyotes than ever before. The upper that I have being built now will be 1" shorter, in the .243 wssm. Both have/will have full length barrel fluting.

Hearing protection has been available for many years. it doesn't matter which gun I carry these days, but I won't go calling again without my electronic ear muffs. I hope the ringing in my ears doesn't get any worse, or I may go crazy.
 

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 01, 2008, 12:14 PM:
 
I guess where I was going with my last post was leading up to a few experiences I have seen. Maybe I should of said multiple shots from a shot gun vs a rifle. This may not be the best comparison but here are my two examples.

The first time I started noticing this was on a stand that Nick and I were on together. I believe he shot the first coyote with 1 shot from a rifle. The next coyote did not check up and was not far behind the first. I shot at him with my shotgun as he flared from me just a little to far. My first shot missed and then the second connected. The 3rd and 4th coyotes were a little ways behind the first two coyotes and after I popped off 2 very quick shot with my shotgun they turned and left in a hurry before they got with 300 yards of us. This all happened with in 5 minutes or so.

On a different stand same day we had two fast chargers come in and Nick shot both of them with his rifle. Then 2 more came in not long after he shot as if nothing had taken place and he shot these 2 with his rifle also.

It seems that I often find my self shooting coyotes with my shotgun and then using a follow up shot to make sure they are down. I some times wonder if I am hurting our stands by shooting a shotgun.

Just my thoughts and hopefully you can follow them
Jeremy Gugelmeyer

[ August 01, 2008, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: JeremyKS ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on August 01, 2008, 12:19 PM:
 
Coyote don't like the snap or crack of the sonic boom. The truck hunters in my area use that to their advantave when they run into land they can't get permission or access to hunt. Simpily shoot four or five rounds about five feet over the cover,as in crp and watch the coyote bail out. The trick is to keep the round above their head so the need is to aim high. Called shaking or shake and bake in my area. Some use ar's but alot just use 22mag auto's because it's not quite as obvious to a landowner.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 01, 2008, 01:01 PM:
 
Dan, how much of a difference is a semi auto with a suppressor vs a suppressor on a bolt??? Loudness?

[ August 01, 2008, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Randy Roede ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 01, 2008, 01:42 PM:
 
TR, it's not the ringing that bothers me, it's the voices........
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 01, 2008, 03:17 PM:
 
This is my 243 WSSM, Shilen barrel with a custom match type chamber. It will shoot a 1/2" groups pretty regular.


 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 01, 2008, 03:33 PM:
 
I'm still in the pray and spray mode... my 17" Kreiger .223 Wylde chamber.



 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 01, 2008, 04:28 PM:
 
3 toes, I see you've already reached the "crazy" stage of tinnitus(sp)? I'd kind of like to get to the stage between the bad ringing and hearing voices, that would be the stage when you can no longer here your wife's voice.

On edit: Jeremy, I don't think the "boom" of the shotgun is hurting you guys as much as your ability to pick your shots. I've always felt that the shotgun, especially, should always be a 1 shot 1 kill weapon!

[ August 01, 2008, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
 

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 01, 2008, 05:46 PM:
 
TR you are probably right I find myself committing to my shotgun long before I should be. I probably try to shoot more coyotes with my shotgun than I should.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 01, 2008, 05:48 PM:
 
Tom, I am going to show my ignorance again.Serious question. Is that what is called an upper? If not, that is some pretty good shooting with half a gun.

Randy
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 01, 2008, 06:11 PM:
 
Ya Randy, that's just the upper. I don't have a good pic of the rifle alone.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on August 01, 2008, 07:41 PM:
 
Jeremy,

Assuming that a shotgun did spook more coyotes than a rifle, I think in rolling the dice you are going to pick up more coyotes with a shotgun in addition to your rifle than the followers you might miss because of that shotgun. Then again, I've never called in the "land of milk and honey" where they keep coming and coming like foreigners to the National Parks. Hehe! Who knows, maybe those two would have spooked from a rifle just as easily?

TRnCO: "Hearing protection has been available for many years. it doesn't matter which gun I carry these days, but I won't go calling again without my electronic ear muffs."

If I can't hear coyotes howling, I don't want any hearing protection when I'm hunting.

~SH~
 

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 01, 2008, 08:10 PM:
 
Scott point taken on the rifle spooking the other 2, that’s kind of why I felt it wasn't the best comparison. I will keep toting both and let you know after more testing in the land of milk and honey O Scott you are always good for a laugh lol

Your point about not hearing howls brings up a question for TR. Do your e-muffs allow you to hear coyotes better since they are supposed to magnify sound?
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 02, 2008, 07:00 AM:
 

quote:

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Ahh, but these days you can have you cake and eat it too, speaking of todays's AR's!

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quote:

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Not too long ago I witnessed a coyote stand around a little over 100 yards from the shooter for about 10 or 11 "cracks" before being struck by a passing bullet. Once again goes to show that there are no set rules with coyotes.

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Was the shooter in question using an AR? LOL!

No gun can compensate for poor shooting skill, faulty equipment or a bad sequence of 11 or so shots.
Scope trouble?
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 02, 2008, 11:52 AM:
 
Yeah Jeremy, I wear the Walker quad muff, and I can hear everything better with them on, but yet they do "shut off" for the muzzle blast. It's been hard getting used to them, but I don't like the thought of a hearing aid in my future.

Yip Smithers, an AR was involved in that ordeal. The shooter was/is very new to hunting. Only his 2nd year of calling coyotes and has very little hunting experience beyond that. What I/we learned after that scene was that he had a very bad habit of coming up out of the scope to "see the hit", along with some bad trigger finger "jerk". I didn't know how bad it was until I took him to shoot prairie dogs and had him shoot a group at 100 yards on paper. That's when I saw how bad things were. Hopefully, with more trigger time and hunting time under his belt, he'll be able to learn how to shoot better. Even in one afternoon of shooting prairie dogs, we/I saw a good improvement. Now if he can learn to keep his adreniline rush under control at the heat of the moment, he'll join the ranks of those who grew up hunting. If ya ever want to see that hunt, it's on Verminator II dvd, dubbed as the "dumbest coyote" hunt!
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 02, 2008, 01:02 PM:
 
Oh, believe me I saw it and couldn't believe it.

The shooting is forgivable, that coyote is not...
I was just harassin' ya because of the polar opposite statements.

Dumbest coyote ever is an understatement AND/OR a great example of the subject at hand.

[ August 02, 2008, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 02, 2008, 02:27 PM:
 
smithers,

I have a favor to ask. Being the true friend, and all around nice guy that you are, I am confident that you will do this for me. Take a friend you can trust, and a large caliber magnum rifle with you on this mission please. You stand behind a large tree,or lay down in a ditch while your friend shoots past you with the magnum rifle. Take note of whether or not you hear the sonic "snap" as bullet zings past you. The sound of bullets striking nearby tree's, or the branches of these tree's does not count.
Thanks in advance,
Rich
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 02, 2008, 03:37 PM:
 
As soon as I am done with that Mr. C... I will tell you if a grenade makes the same snap as it goes off overhead. That 25-06 you have should work fine. And I am sure you have some live grenades left over from
THE FIRST WORLD WAR! LOL...

quote:

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all around nice guy that you are

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Ain't it the truth, ain't it the truth!

EDIT: Being the modern man that I am I could set a video recorder behind said tree and record the sound. My friends would put me behind a sapling...

[ August 02, 2008, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 02, 2008, 04:02 PM:
 
Don't worry with your post number, you might pull through...
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on August 02, 2008, 04:45 PM:
 
LOL Damian Smithers

[ August 02, 2008, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 02, 2008, 06:00 PM:
 
"And I am sure you have some live grenades left over from
THE FIRST WORLD WAR! LOL..."
------------------------
Smithers,
Me and John McCaine were war buddies, so watch yer mouth. LOL
 

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Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on August 02, 2008, 08:12 PM:
 
Now we know why John McCain is so hot tempered
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 03, 2008, 03:58 PM:
 
John McCain was in the War of 1812!? I guess there is experience and experience...

[ August 03, 2008, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 03, 2008, 06:17 PM:
 
YOU GUYS ARE STARTING TO HIT A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TO HOME! Please knock off all the old jokes..... I haven't hit my ban quota for the week, and I'm getting an itchy trigger finger.

That is not true, by the way. I have not banned anybody since the space cadet, and nobody before that for about a year, probably? so; Make my day!

(I'm kidding, please make fun of us old guys, I really enjoy it)

Good hunting. LB

PS, how did we get off track again? It was smithers, right?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 04, 2008, 10:24 AM:
 
Smithers,
Leonard is a lot older than me, but I am much more handsome.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 04, 2008, 01:32 PM:
 
Alright, Leonard. Which reminded me that I kinda dis'd you on some other board some time back to try and draw you out and you weren't around. As I recall, the inquiry had to do with night hunting. I admitted that I had no real experience with the type of night hunting they were asking about, but that they should come over here and pose the question to you, since you were around back when they invented night. Hahahahahaha.

Alright, I'll shut up now.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 04, 2008, 02:40 PM:
 
Right now, I'm focusing on that old platitude; age is just a state of mind.

I guess whereever and whoever didn't want to know something about night hunting very badly? Too bad, I could die in my sleep tonight and take all that knowledge with me.

Good hunting. LB

did we reach consensus on the orig Q?
 

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Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on August 04, 2008, 03:23 PM:
 
Okay Leonard what was it like to hunt with torches and how did you set up?

Sorry I couldnt help myself
PM
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 04, 2008, 04:03 PM:
 
Leonard,
Did you use a candle inside of a tin can, sorta like Morton Burnham once did?
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 04, 2008, 04:33 PM:
 
And all of this time I thought that Leonard pre-dated fire.

Ok,... I'll go stand in the corner.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 04, 2008, 04:35 PM:
 
I'll go with the old standby... "only the coyote knows."

quote:

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since you were around back when they invented night.

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