This is topic Enough Scope? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 04:14 PM:
I'm looking at getting a scope for my new rifle.I have always liked a variable scope for calling with a 4x12 being the lowest end to a 6x18 the high.But I see alot of you guys like the 3.5x10(Leonard,Q,now Cal,from your recent article in PX,which I enjoyed by the way.)And alot of you others guys too.Is it really enough scope for wide open areas where shots can be from 50-400 yards.I'm looking at Swarovski,Zeiss,and Leupold.Any advice would be appreciated.
Good Hunting Chad
[ January 20, 2009, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 20, 2009, 04:21 PM:
When i used to snipe fox i always liked the Luppy 6.5-20 power. I still have a few of them but i use 4-14x or fixed 10x scopes now with the 30mm tube. When i have to deal with running shots i prefer the lower power, makes it easey to pick-up target faster.. 10x seems to be a happy med. for me..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2009, 04:42 PM:
I used a 3.5X10 Leupold at night for years, and never felt handicapped. I still have one on my big game rifle. I think it's a solid choice for Nevada type hunting, with the 4.5X14 another good one. You didn't say night hunting but I assume you will be doing some? My personal opinion is that twelve power is all you want for night hunting and it is not needed most of the time, maybe for those 400 yarders you mention? I just do not believe that the higher magnifications allow enough light to really see your target. I would also caution against the theory that you can get a 6.5X20 and keep it at 10X. I don't think it works that way, a twenty power scope doesn't allow enough light to pass through and all you will see are eyes.
For Nevada daylights, I still think ten power is enough for most situations and when it isn't, have another rifle set up for long range with a little bigger scope.
But, I'm a little confused? I remember a few years ago that Cal said he used a 6X18 scope and that surprised me a little bit. Now, he says 3.5X10?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 20, 2009, 05:00 PM:
The question becomes, enough scope for what purpose? I admit, Im totally ignorant concerning night hunting,and the scope type needed for the task, only done it once as an adult,and once when I was 15 or so, just not my cup of tea.
I can't imagine taking many pokes at 400 yard coyotes in the daytime, much less a night time situation, thats a hell of a long way out there.Ive probably shot at two coyotes past the 400 yard mark in my life, with absolutely no reasonable expectation of hitting it, but I did.
I use nothing but 1.5X6 heavy duplex for my predator hunting, and it's "enough" scope for me.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2009, 05:05 PM:
Whenever I buy my little cabin down your way, I will get me a 1.5X6 heavy duplex!
edit: is that homestead next door to JH still for sale?
[ January 20, 2009, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 20, 2009, 05:07 PM:
You got a deal Leonard!, but we will have to get you a BB gun to put it on.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 05:24 PM:
Leonard,
Yea, in the article Cal said he has been using a Nightforce 2.5x10 compact.Maybe for his AR?
[ January 20, 2009, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 05:37 PM:
currently I am using a Burris 4.5x14 on acouple of my calling rigs,which I like alot.I usually have it on 8 or 10 power for open sage brush country where most shots are atleast 100 yrds.I agree Vic most of my shots are 50-200 yards,I guess I'm just so used to having the bigger scopes I'm afraid of not having enough for longer shots(250-300+).But I might try the 3-10 scopes.I'm kind of wanting a higher end scope for this calling rig.Why?Like Wiley said JUST BECAUSE....LOL
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2009, 05:53 PM:
Well, I'm not convinced on Nightforce. Might be great, but they seem way too heavy and way to expensive. I don't mind paying top dollar for top gear, but I have not seen a Nightforce I'd pay what they are asking. A 2.5X10 is a really sensible choice though. Both my calling rifles have 2.5X8 Leupolds on them. I just don't feel daylights requires $1600 optics.
Goos hunting. LB
edit: a deal we have, Vic. Whenever it happens, it'll be a package deal.
edit: I'm not at all impressed with "compact" scopes. Wonder what he thinks if it, compared to first class glass?
[ January 20, 2009, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 06:18 PM:
Well I saw a good deal on a Leupold Vari-x 3 4.5x 14-40mm without The adjustable objective for four and a quarter.My have to get it.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 20, 2009, 06:32 PM:
Well, Like most of you I have several guns and several scopes. But the Nightforce is on my AR and regardless of what you think about compacts or Nightforce, for the money spent it was well worth it in my opinion. It is a nice sized, spectacularly clear scope. It is a 30 mm. I would put it up against any VX3 any day or night. I have had a couple Swarovskis and this is every bit as good of glass. I will agree about most compacts being pretty poor. I had both a Burris and a Luepold compact and I got rid of both. But I also have several higher power scopes, mostly Burris. Trust me LB, You would like this particular Nightforce. I also agree that most of thier scopes are simply too big for hunting applications, but this one isn't.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 20, 2009, 07:50 PM:
Chad in my opinion, the 4.5-14 without the adjustable objective is worthless. I had one for a short time and it just never did seem right.
Anything above 10x needs the AO for me.
A fellow named Brad Arnett from MI has a 4.5-14 with the AO and turrets o the OK board FS at $415.
[ January 20, 2009, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 08:21 PM:
Thanks Tom64.. that's good to know.I'm leaning toward the Zeiss Conquest 3.5 x 10 44mm.Seems like a great scope for the cost(around $600.00)We'll see.
Leonard,
99% of my calling with this rig will be Day calling.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 20, 2009, 08:40 PM:
Most of my rifles sport 4x12s. However, on the rifle I use most for calling, I have a 2.5x10. Vic kinda sold me on them for calling. Just about right for most things.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 20, 2009, 09:09 PM:
I use a leupold 3x9x50 on my 22-250 and a Weaver 3x9x50 on my 223 WSSM.
I like the 50 mm objectives for night hunting, seems to work better for them old eyes. I see no reason for much more power then a 3x9 for day or night hunting predators.
I also see no reason to pay a $1000 or more for a damn scope when it comes to predator hunting but that's just me and my old way of thinking I guess lol.
Believe it or not the best scope I ever used for night hunting was a 3x9x56mm Bushnell Banner, they stopped making them years ago, wish I could get my hands on one now.
[ January 20, 2009, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2009, 09:14 PM:
Well, to each his own, but I don't agree with the concept that a scope used on a daylight calling rifle is worthless without an ajdustable objective., discounting such as 4.5X14, for the moment. I have three perfectly adequate daytime rigs with scopes that lack this feature. Perhaps when you get into extended applications and higher magnification and target/squirrel shooting etc. but for the vast majority of situations, you can easily get by without A.O.
Good hunting. LB
[ January 20, 2009, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 20, 2009, 09:29 PM:
Chad you may want to look at this scope
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2745712/page/2/gonew/1#UNREAD
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 20, 2009, 09:35 PM:
Thanks Jeremy that's just what i'm looking for.
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on January 21, 2009, 01:19 AM:
My two specific calling rifles both have the VX-III 4.5-14 X 50mm long range scopes on them.For shooting at the ranges you mentioned, you would be much better off with the additional power the 14 offers over just a 10 power.
I always keep my power setting at 4.5 when starting a stand for the typical called in shots.But when the need for shots between 200-300+ yards arises,I simply turn the knob all the way over and shoot.Don't have much use for the powers in between,it's either 4.5 or 14.I keep the AO focused for 275-300 yards at 14 power.
To shoulder and acquire your target at full magnification can be difficult and very frustrating if you don't perfect it by practicing till it's a reflex.Also,in the heat of the moment,when only seconds count to make that long shot,are you going to remember to crank the power up,that too needs to be a reflex.....You might want to make a comparison at a store.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 21, 2009, 05:37 AM:
Leonard, I have a 1.5-5, a 2.5-8 and 2 3.5-10's, none of them have AO's. My point was the Leupold 4.5-14 that was brought out a couple of years ago without the AO is worthless to me and quite a few others who have tried it. Unless all your shots are at 150 yards which is where it's focused in at.
The AO adds weight and objective size which for my light weight rigs doesn't fit. Probably why I stop at 10 power for anything.
My cuzz is just the opposite, he has 5 or 6, 6.5-20's and is not handicapped at all on close range running shots but he is done about 10 minutes before I am on evening stands. Not enough light transmission, you are correct about that.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 21, 2009, 07:47 AM:
I see no need for anything more than a 3x-9x40mm scope of good quality for a calling rifle. A straight 4x scope wouldn't make me feel under scoped either for that matter. It seems to me that the eye relief is less critical on low power setting of a variable power scope, which is main reason that I went to the 3x-9x40mm Nikon Monarch. When I bring the rifle to my shoulder I want the cross hairs to be right there every time. My Remington CDL in .243 has a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14 mounted on it right now, but I haven't used that rig enough to comment on how good it works yet. I can't get over my long habit of grabbing the Mauser .257 A.I. with the 3x-9x Nikon Monarch when I go after coyotes. That rig is perfect. Can't get any better than that. I wouldn't want to shoot a bobcat with it though. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 21, 2009, 08:56 AM:
3.5X10X50's on the three rigs I carry calling. I like them.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2009, 09:48 AM:
Good choice, Kelly, although I'm decidedly lukewarm on big objectives for a daylight rig.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on January 21, 2009, 10:10 AM:
I run a 3.5 x 10 40mm vx3 on my Swift...nice scope even though I hardly ever move it from 5-6X. I run a 3x9 vx2 on both my .204 and 17 Rem., same as above...usually set on about 5x
I'm a big fan of fixed power scopes as well...they don't seem to get much love on most of the sites I read but a good quality fixed power scope is usually real bright and clear. One of my favorites is a 6x42mm M8 with heavy duplex I run on my little Sako.
[ January 21, 2009, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: tawnoper ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 21, 2009, 01:06 PM:
What Tawnoper said... Most of my rigs wear 4.5x14's, mainly because most of them see double duty plinking rock chucks in the summer and coyotes in the winter. For just a calling rifle, I like a lower power variable or fixed power scope. But all the variables are always set at 5x all the time when coyote hunting, and I don't bother cranking them up for longer shots - 5x is plenty for a 400 yard coyote.
And... again, what Tawnoper said... I've got a couple of those M8 6x42's and they are some of my favorite scopes.
- DAA
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 21, 2009, 01:40 PM:
LB - I am only 20 minutes from Texas where night hunting is king. I have not been night hunting this season yet, but I hope to get a trip or two in.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2009, 02:12 PM:
Good luck, Kelly. Not that you will need it as I have heard that the coyotes respond to squeaky breaks twenty minutes down from where you are?
I have owned one 6X fixed Leupold. I loved it, but it was stolen. I think it's a great choice.
Interesting about the power setting? I have always liked 5X. At first, it didn't even register, I was keeping the post in a twelve o'clock position so I could just feel it and not have to look down. When I realized that my unconscious brain just prefered that setting I began to pay attention and found that that was where I had been keeping just about every scope on every rifle I used. Long time ago, but I have not felt the need to modify the practice. It's an odd number, but it seems just about perfect for the average animal on the average stand. As Dave said, I often do not take the time to crank up the power for the long shots but I do like to know it's there when I feel the need for it. I think it's about training your brain; 5X seems like a real good happy medium, to me?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on January 21, 2009, 05:00 PM:
My calling rifles wear Leupolds. VXIII on all, 3.5X10X40 on the 223 and 4.5X14X40 on 22-250 and 243.
I would not and do not own a hunting scope with AO, nor do I own a 50 mm scope, both I consider not only worthless but a detriment on a hunting rifle. Nor range finders, BC reticules or any of that other crap.
I stress I am talking about Hunting rifles, not target or benchrest Pdog guns.
my 2
Carl
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 21, 2009, 06:43 PM:
I thought that all Vari-x III's came with a A.O.
quote:
I would not and do not own a hunting scope with AO, nor do I own a 50 mm scope, both I consider not only worthless but a detriment on a hunting rifle. Nor range finders, BC reticules or any of that other crap.
So maybe you shouldbe hunting with an old Winchester lever gun with open sites or one better a long-bow ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 21, 2009, 06:58 PM:
Tim - no they do not. The VXIII I have does not have AO.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 05, 2009, 09:06 PM:
Well I ended up picking up a Zeiss Conquest Z-plex 3.5x10-44mm..
The deal was to tough to pass up.$499.99......
Very nice scope,very clear optics.
I will be putting it on my new .17 Tactical....
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 05, 2009, 11:49 PM:
Dang, Chad. Sportsmans Warehouse has that scope on sale for $319! It's a good scope, you will like it.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 06, 2009, 07:14 AM:
Leonard,
Man,I should have sent you my money.That's where I bought it was Sportsmans Warehouse...Shit,that really bums me out I thought I got a steal.. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
A few days ago they listed them at $649.99.....Oh well It really is a great scope for the cash.It just would of been an even better scope for $319.00... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 06, 2009, 09:10 AM:
Ah shit! I'm sorry, Chad. I should have ammended my post last night, before you got too excited....I am totally full of shit, made it up. I just wanted to tease ya, generate some buyer's remorse. Accept my apologies! LB
edit: I knew there was something I should do before going to bed!
[ March 06, 2009, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 06, 2009, 10:38 AM:
Ah, it's alright Leonard,I'm still licking my wounds alittle but I'll get over it.lol I'm still excited about the scope.I guess I'll just have to kill a few more coyotes to make up the difference in price.lol
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 06, 2009, 10:00 PM:
I don't have that one, Chad. But, I have a 4.5X14X44 silver Conquest on my 243. Hell of a nice scope for the money, which I think was almost $700? However, for 90% of what we do, Nevada type hunting, that 3.5X10 is a good solid choice. I hunted almost exclusively with that power range for a number of years, 3.5X10VXIII, when it was just about the only game in town, unless you used a 4X12 VXII? I never felt handycapped.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on March 07, 2009, 11:12 AM:
I have 3 calling rifles, all wear VX3,Leupold. 2 wear 4.5X14X40 non AO, 1 wears a 3.5X10X40. I like them all very well. I would not have an AO on a hunting rifle and see no need. I wish all my shots were 150 yardsor less. I have about 45-50 years experience. I own one scope that is not leupold.
Chad, if you want I will PM you my brothers store number, he has the 4.5X14X40 about 450.00 NIB. He is in Washington state so there might be some shipping or something. this was about 6 moths ago I doubt if it changed.
Carl
[ March 07, 2009, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Bofire ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 07, 2009, 10:50 PM:
Leonard,
I really do like the clarity of the scope and think it will work fine for my .17 Tact.Even though it is a 44 mm objective it has a smaller diameter objective than my 42 mm 4.5 x 14 Burris,so I can use the medium rings.
Now if I get my next project started maybe the .22-243 middlestead like alberts looking at I might just go with the Zeiss 4.5x14 44mm,that to looks like a dandy.
Guess I better finish one project before I start planning another.lol
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on March 08, 2009, 05:10 PM:
Utah, FWIW, I stumbled across this and Sightron looks pretty good and Zeiss made a good showing as well.
www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15930
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