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Author
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Topic: What do you think...
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 02:11 PM
About using a flashlight to get to your stand ? Does it have the potential to spook coyotes,or no ?
This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but many people here go in the woods with a flashlight before daylight,to get to there deer or turkey spot.I stopped doing it a few years ago,simply because I never saw a thing animal wise, by getting there early.I figured it was better to move in quitely in daylight, and I seemed to do better that way.What say you ?
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted May 15, 2003 02:59 PM
Why would you want to wander that far? If it's too dark to see where you're going, it's too dark to call. The object of calling is to bring predators to you. The more time you spend wandering around the greater risk of being busted (white light or not).
I've never found it imperative to be at any stand that early anyway. I understand the adrenaline that has kept you awake most of the night and wants to drag you afield before first light but it will only serve to work against you.
Will a white light spook a coyote? Yes. Will walking to your stand spook a coyote? Yes. Best bet is to forego the added distance and make the coyote do the work.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 03:11 PM
I guess what prompted me to ask the question was the fact that so many go in before daylight here.More importantly, I assumed [you know what they say about that] most of you must setup in the predawn dark,because so many have said the best time to call is early AM,while the yotes are still out from prowling all night ?
Thanks for the answer,very enlightening [pardon the pun ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ]. I'll make my plans according to your response,and my habits,which means I'll go in at daylight,not before.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted May 15, 2003 03:21 PM
Just how far are you "going in"? I do happen know a couple successful callers that will walk great distances for a stand.
Roads aren't of any real concern to a coyote if that's what you're concerned about so you don't need to trek far away from any road. They can weigh as much as 180 pounds by the time you get back to your truck.
If you locate coyotes by hearing their howls, whatever you guestimate the distance is, double it and then you could close the distance to within 1/2 to 1/4 mile if you wish.
In wooded areas try not to produce any echo while calling.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 03:50 PM
Man,these are some hot tips! Thanks! I'll be going pretty far in,say about a mile ,walking a graveled fire lane,before setting up.
What's the reasoning behind the no echo thing ?
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 15, 2003 04:24 PM
The guy that comes to mind that focuses on being set at the crack of dawn is Rich Higgins.
For me, I suck the last bit of night time calling, then change gear and dress for daylights. That usually means that it is at least thirty minutes past sunrise before I am making sound.
I've been ready before dark, but I have never felt that it is clearly better than waiting a little while.
In the Sierra's, the rainbows and browns start to feed after the sun is actually in the sky. What does that have to do with anything, I don't know? I have had the same attitude about coyotes, I think they seem to run a lot better, as the morning warms up a little. Of course, I can't prove it, and it isn't always true anyway?
Morning stands are much better than any other time. Unless it's raining or snowing; things like that.
In Arizona, where I have spent quite a lot of time, I feel that the action starts to drop off by maybe ten A.M. That still gives you a solid four hours of excellent hunting, followed by decent hunting for the ballance of the day, fall and winter.
Other places, you might have an afternoon session that is very active, especially at higher elevations, but in the hot climates, in summer conditions, afternoons are very hot, until after dark, and the animals just don't move much.
Bottom line, a flashlight isn't going to spook an animal more than just walking does. However, I have never needed a flashlight to get around in the morning. After dark, deer hunting or bird hunting, I sometimes pack a mini Mag just for the heck of it, and it is sometimes useful.
In order to really spook a coyote, you have to be pointing a pretty strong light right at them. Any other source of light, they can and do ignore, and are not bothered by anything such as streetlights and vehicles. A non-problem, don't worry about it. If you feel that you need to use it, go ahead, avoid waving it around, keep it pointed at the ground, as much as possible.
And, be assured, a flashlight doesn't spook deer, either.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 04:31 PM
Thanks for the insight,much obliged.It's nice to know what to expect,in a gneral way.
I guess what really spooks game going in at night is all the extra crash-bang that goes on while you're trashing the forest on your way to your place.Kinda hard to be stealthy in the dark,even with a flashlight.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 15, 2003 04:54 PM
First light is definitely my favorite time of the day and has always been the most productive stand for me. If the coyotes have been hunting the night together, they are still together. If they have been hunting the night individually, the predawn group howl socializing has assembled them and they are still together. This first stand is the most productive for multples for this reason. This is the one that sometimes results in 2 or more adjacent packs coming in if I'm set up in overlapping homerange. We have lots of video of as many as 9 coyotes in front of us and I really can't remember that happening except on the first or second stand of the day. We rarely walk more than a couple of hundred yards from the truck, and always when it is light enough to see cactus and toothy creepy-crawleys. Vehicle noises don't bother coyotes much. Door banging and human noises do. Like Leonard said, the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock slots are the slowest.
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 05:04 PM
Then I guess I will change my tactics a bit,start walking in so that I'm where I want to be about daylight.In most instances around here,it won't be a problem.But there's a nice place up north that will require some hoofin'.
Thanks for the input.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 15, 2003 05:16 PM
I'm posing this question to Rich, but anyone that has a mind, is welcome to contribute.
Rich; think of a specific spot, and tell me: will the coyote still respond at 8:00, if you can't be there at sunrise?
I have the attitude that a stand will be successful, if called at any time during that morning session prime time. Past noon, they get a bit independant and may ignore a call or a howl.
But, my expectations do not decline with every completed stand. I fully expect to see coyotes all morning, and when they start to ignore me, I take a break. Generally, unless a bomb goes off, they are active until 9:30 to 10:00. (what does he mean about bombs; is that a joke?) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
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posted May 15, 2003 05:47 PM
You are absolutely right Leonard, a coyote that will respond at 6:00 will respond at 8:00. But the 6 to 8 stands are the most productive for me and as the day progresses the coyotes go their seperate ways, mousing or scent patrol or napping and multiple responses decline considerably. Plus while their blood is still up in the early hours and the morning is still calm
they are more inclined to come to the calls while later especially if they are napping or the wind comes up it sometimes takes a lot of coaxing to get them to come in.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 15, 2003 06:34 PM
My experience pretty much mirrors Rich Higgins. That very first stand in the morning, right at first light has always been my favorite. I have also observed much of the same travel habits as Leonard mentions. I have thought for a long time now that these Iowa farmland coyotes are out mousing in open fields during night time. When it gets light they head for their daytime hidey holes. Brushy draws, cedar thickets, CRP fields, wet spots in the fields where water grass etc. grows tall and thick, weedy fence rows and cover along creeks or rivers all come to mind for the late morning or early afternoon calling stands. To be honest, I am usually headed for the truck by 10:A.M. unless I am on an out of state hunt that I traveled a long ways to get to.
[ May 15, 2003, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 06:40 PM
Well Mr. Cronk,you are welcome in my house anytime, should you decide to come to the mountain state.We may be lacking in coyote numbers,but I assure you we make up for it in bobcat numbers.Which brings to mind another question.Every pic I've seen of Western area bobcats tells me the same thing,the bobcats out West are a bigger variety than the Eastern ones for some reason,kinda like the Florida largemouth ? I wonder what causes that, and don't feed me no tales about everything in Texas being bigger either!!
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 15, 2003 06:58 PM
I'm familiar with a couple of different types of bobcat. The (so called) lynxcat is a very leggy animal, and doesn't weigh nearly as much as you might think.
A orange desert cat may weigh anywhere from 18 to 25 pounds. (M-F)
The biggest bobcat I ever killed was in New Mexico and I have a picture somewhere that shows him laying across both tracks of a dirt road. I never weighed him, but he was a big boy.
So, how big do they get in West (By God) Virginia?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 15, 2003 07:02 PM
Most of them you could fit in your pocket...nah,just kidding.
Maybe the small size is due to the apparent overpopulation ? A large cat might weigh 15 pounds,not a whole lot bigger looking than a fox ?
The pics I've seen were bobcats,the lynx has the ear tuft thing going,right ?
Wish you could post that pic,I'd love to see that bad boy!
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 16, 2003 11:03 AM
Seldom,
As far as walking in too far versus not far enough, remember that every time you put your foot down, you run that much more chance of spooking the coyote. Too many guys walk way to far in for a setup when, in reality, they only have to get out of sight of the truck. If I've walked in a half-mile to my set-up, I've compromised a linear half-mile of where that coyote might be laying up. Also, you almost "speak" ike you regard the first stand of the morning to be time consuming and the kinda place you'll still be sitting two hours later. Hardly. In fact, if I'm after coyotes exclusively, I'll call for fiteen minutes, maybe twenty if I feel good about the situation. If, by that time, nothing shows, I'm outta there. By two hours into the day, I'm looking at my fourth stand of the morning. If I'm after just coyotes, I keep on the move. If I'm looking for a 'cat, I'll offer an extra twenty to thirty minutes before throwing in the towel.
One other big difference in my area as compared to many of these desert rats is the effect of my scent and vehicles. I'm one of a relatively few number of callers around here. Human scent is everywhere because this is farm country where farmers and houses and the like are everywhere and coyotes encounter human scent all the time with no real reason to fear it. On the other hand, many more coyotes are harassed by the sight dog guys with their dog wagons. A parked truck sets that coyote into major paranoia. Letting up on the gas pedal sets them off, too. Having them come in downwind of me is not nearly as much a concern as having them spot my truck. I'll walk a little farther if that's what it takes to hide the Ford, but that's the only reason.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 16, 2003 11:45 AM
Thanks for the good advice.I will probably stay at least 45 minutes to an hour on each stand in this area,simply because there are so many cats, as well as yotes.
The first stand of the morning is time consuming only in the sense that I have to get to it,before I can hunt.I figured it'd be better to get there right before or just at daylight.From what you're telling me,you think I should hunt my way in,making stands along the way ? There is a way to do that,but I was considering terrain.The place I want to hunt,is a huge clearcut,with room for several stands. On the way to it,all there is is a couple of fields right before the cut on each side of the timbering road,and one gawd awful thicket on the ridge and in the holler on the right,all the way oit the road.On the left,before you get to the fields just before the clear cut, there is a real long pine thicket running the length of the ridge.
Keep in mind,these are big mountains and ridges with the whole sides or tops of them clearcut years ago.Logpiles twenty feet high occasionally,etc.
So anyway,that's what I had in mind.In order to hunt my way in,I'd have to do some pretty crafty setting up,because there are so many ways for a yote or cat to approach me unseen,even in the "open" woods below the thickets on each side of the road.I'd draw you a map if I could .On the left side of the ridge it drops off into a holler,climbs up another ridge and over the side,and breaks into another big clearcut on the side of the ridge, with scattered fields on the far edges of the clear cut.There are several logging roads to take me in from either side.The place is simply covered up in big clearcuts that are about 6 years old and starting to overgrow real good.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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howler
Knows what it's all about
Member # 197
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posted May 16, 2003 09:15 PM
I think I agree with jay, let the coyote do the leg work, I think the Idea behind using the flashlight to walk into an area before light is to keep from getting shot by some eagar beaver
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Powder River let'r Buck
Posts: 53 | From: Glasgow, Montana | Registered: May 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 17, 2003 05:56 AM
yeah howler,there are a few of those here,but most only come out during the guns only buck season.Speaking of flashlights though,have any of you tried the new streamlight stylus,it comes in green or red,and is a lot more subtle than glaring white light ?
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Maineiac
Knows what it's all about
Member # 21
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posted May 18, 2003 05:55 AM
SE you are talking my kinda language. Some of the property I hunt is simular to what you have. Because we have less numbers of coyotes here makes it a bit more challengeing. If I have a few different stands that I want to hunt, what I do is hunt to the stand and back. The ones that I can drive close to I do others will make a big loop hunting from the truck and back. When I hunt the woods, I pick the most open area I can and go for it.
From what the local farmers have told me they saw there first coyotes in these part 15 to 20 years back.
From the sign it looks like they have a good foothold. Just guessing I would say that we have about 75% woods to 25% field. I believe that they are more numberous that the DNR admits to. We have a year round season and Jan 1 to Apr 30 night hinting is allowed. No Sunday hunting here yet, though they are trying to change that reg.
Posts: 129 | From: Maine | Registered: Jan 2003
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Seldom Ever
Knows what it's all about
Member # 185
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posted May 18, 2003 06:06 AM
Well you'd be in yote heaven in Pocahontas county then.I believe there are a lot more yotes here in WV than anybody thinks, too. I know there is a pile of cats in pocahontas,because I have seen the tracks! It is too far to go for any trapper other than a retired one camping,to run a line.
I am just now collecting names of sheep ranchers in the area locally,to give them a call and see if they are having problems.I read an article a few years ago that the yote population was really hurting the sheep population in this state.The only thing that bothered me about the article was that the total sheep count for the state was only 40,000.This means that even one yote kill has a significant impact on statistics.Wouldn't take many yotes to alter those statistics!
If you want to yote and cat hunt with me in Pocahontas,I am giving serious thought to taking my camping gear there and predator hunting for a week this fall,if I can find someone else to go. If you have never been to pocahontas county,you have missed out. Have you ever seen pics of the virgin timber that came out of these mountains ? You could easily build a home on some of the stumps,which are long gone now.Anyway,they timber it regularly,so as a result there are clearcuts everywhere.Every year that we deer hunt there,there are new timbering roads and new clear cuts. There have been some real nice bucks killed there as well.There is a lot of Beech trees and wild cherry where I deer hunt [the same place where the yotes are],and lots of years it's the only place with food,because the acorns get killed in an early frost.The only setback is that after you kill anything of any size,you'd better be ready to drag a long ways or carry it in the case of a yote.There is a gravel timber road that runs to the end of the ridge,but it's walk in only.It's amazing how it can shave a deer hide.Makes the deer look kinda funny,bald on one side and hairy on the other!
Anyhow,you could bowhunt and predator hunt both,there.A non resident license allows you one deer,so you'd better hold out for a nice one!
My guess is we are 75-80% timber here as well.
[ May 18, 2003, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: Seldom Ever ]
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Maineiac
Knows what it's all about
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posted May 18, 2003 06:38 AM
I have through a fair amount of the state, I do like area. The mountains and trees, it's awsome.
Posts: 129 | From: Maine | Registered: Jan 2003
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