This is topic so what about a 25 wssm? in forum Calls and Gear forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on May 30, 2010, 11:31 AM:
I don't know a darn thing about this ugly short little fat cartridge. I am going to paint a house next week and probably had better keep the cash but I was offered in partial barter a brand new Savage model 700 in 25 wssm. The rifle is gorgeous with a real cool short action but I know nothing about this caliber?
Cash or trade? He'll trade it for $675 - has rings no scope.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 30, 2010, 01:56 PM:
Too new fangled for my tastes. I don't think it will work?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on May 30, 2010, 02:23 PM:
Take the money!!!
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on May 30, 2010, 08:15 PM:
Sure Dan, I'll take the money on your advise alone...but why? just curious. Thanks.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 31, 2010, 05:43 AM:
If it weren't for the popularity of the wssm.'s in the AR platform, I think the fad would dry up and blow away. Unless you reload for them, it's tough to find much of a choice of ammo. on the shelves.
Now did you have a question about "calls and gear" ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ May 31, 2010, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on May 31, 2010, 07:24 AM:
The short story is. The brass case is too thick, and as such it is hard to seal the neck to the chamber enough to stop the blow by without very high chamber pressure. Also, the thick case neck is work hardened from firing and resizing causing the bullet release to be erratic. No major manufacturer is currently chambering any firearms for the WSSM cartridges. Availability of factory ammo is spotty at best. Reloading components will dry up in the coming years.
There is only one (1) AR manufacturer and maybe 1-2 custom shops that are chambering WSSM's, and damn few per year at that, for good reasons. Only Olympic arms makes bolts and barrel extensions for the WSSM. The Major AR manufacturers won't touch it. Both Browning and Winchester had barrel problems with the WSSM chamberings and went to chrome lined barrels trying to offset the barrel erosion.
And yes, I have a custom 243 WSSM I built for myself. And am currently doing one for a friend, but I don't offer the service to the general public.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 31, 2010, 11:29 AM:
I might add, I believe a similiar situation can occur (for example) with 220Swift brass and light bullets, 40/45 grain bullets meant for such as 222 Remington, but missused in a large capacity case with thick walls intended for Swift pressures, etc. Performance will be erratic and possible split necks, errosion. Why the original factory load for that cartridge was 48 grains is a mystery to me? Performance is much better with 55 grain bullets designed for large capacity cases.
But, the WSSM is/was a misguided attempt to crack a mature market, (personal opinion) and the straight sides, minimum taper short bodied cartridges have what I consider to be problems with feeding and chambering.
As Dan indicated, it's a fad type design that deserves to die, not to mention, a solution to a non existant problem. As far as I'm concerned, I would not buy any rifle chambered with the designation "WSSM".
Dan, what's your application?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 31, 2010, 12:11 PM:
I had always presumed the 48 grain loading was to insure the mythical 4K fps mark could be reached with the big rimmed cartridge?
Ive had two swifts, interesting rifles, but they are both gone, gusess they just weren't that interesting. Never could see what they had, tyhat my .22-250s couldn't match?
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on May 31, 2010, 12:16 PM:
Thank you Alby and Dan! Good call Timothy! I must of clicked the wrong whooper. It was a clean miss; I was shooting for the F. for V. and P. button.
P.S. T.R. we're not neighbors after-all. We moved to 120th and Quebec. We have 10 acres, indoor riding arena, 20 stable, 5 beds, 3 baths for a mere $1,200 a month. It is a month to month because it is the landlords intention to scrape this and his other 3 adjacent mini-ranches and build condos.
The current plan is to sell our house (Lord willing) and then just rent here for a year or two or as long as we can. I don't see the market changing anytime soon, and I figure the housing market is just gonna keep getting worse. I'll think about buying again in a couple of years when real estate is even cheaper than it is now!
P.S.S. What the heck does any of this have to do with guns or gear!?!?
[ May 31, 2010, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 31, 2010, 12:24 PM:
This is all good information for me. I was actually contemplating an AR build with the .223 WSSM to get close to the ballistics of the Swift in a semi auto, just because. (Does anyone build an AR is 22-250, and if so/ not, why?) Talking about this with a taxi customer this week whose FIL is a gun plumber here in town, he advised me that the WSSM's had all been abandoned because none of the factories could get them to be worth a damn for accuracy. What has been said here is very consistent with his remarks and actuasll;y fills the info voids somewhat. Thanks, Dan and Elbee.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 31, 2010, 02:54 PM:
I've also got a .243 wssm. which is a D-Tech build. I've not had any feed/function problems. Haven't had any problems getting brass to seal when fired, even with loads on the low end of the spectrum. Although I haven't found a "one hole all day if I do my part" load for it, it's accurate enough to kill coyotes, deer, or pronghorn at my range ability.
If a guy reloads and stocks up on brass, ammo. will never be a problem for the wssm.'s.
If ya want an AR 22-250, you'd have to step up to an AR-10 I beleive because of cartridge length.
Darn Danny, I was hopin' for a new neighbor that didn't mind me showing up at all hours of the day to test reloads...good luck with the new digs...
[ May 31, 2010, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on May 31, 2010, 07:16 PM:
"Dan, what's your application?"
Its an AR 15 in 243WSSM. I needed it just cause. Actually, I built it using only 2 Olympic parts, that being the barrel extension and the bolt, I used a RRA upper receiver I line bored for the extension and a Shilen barrel with a DPMS handguard. With My reamer and neck turned Federal brass. I get 5 shot groups under an inch with 65 grain Vmax bullets. My 6 WOA will shoot 65 grain VMax bullets into less than half inch groups and only 250 FPS less than the WSSM.
You could say the WOA is an eyeball rifle and the WSSM is a body rifle.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 01, 2010, 10:17 AM:
If you are a 'black rifle' guy, you may like the .25Wizzer in an AR-15. Pretty much gives you the performance of the venerable .25-06, but in a semi auto platform...
I have one in an AR-15 and like it well enough. It spanks coyotes down with gusto (75Vmax @ 3600), but it is no 1/2" tack driver. But then again, who can hold a .5MOA group off shooting stix anyway? I know I sure can't...
Being it's a bolt gun you asked about, I'd say give it a pass. You can find new Wizzer bolt guns around for less money than that, given the fact that they don't hold much appeal, as stated above. And as Dan mentioned, the brass ain't great and could use a little extra TLC...
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on June 03, 2010, 01:43 PM:
25 wssm does little that a 25-06 won't do. Plus brass much easier to find for the 06 and some increased barrel life over the 25 wssm, they went out fast as many found higher cost and not real benefit from them, I thought about it when winchester came out with the model 70 coyote but thanks to some experianced help forgot about it, glad I did.
Take the money and get a better caliber.
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