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Author
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Topic: what's the lesson, here?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 10, 2007 08:30 AM
By JACQUES BILLEAUD, Associated Press Writer
Fri Nov 9, 10:28 PM ET
PHOENIX - A wildlife biologist at Grand Canyon National Park most likely died from the plague contracted while performing a necropsy on a mountain lion that later tested positive for the disease, officials said Friday.
Eric York, 37, who worked in the park's cougar collaring program, became ill on Oct. 30 and called out sick from for a couple of days before being found dead in his home Nov. 2. Tests were positive for the pneumonic plague.
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Hard to say? But, skinning a shot and killed lion is a little different than messing with a lion that died under unknown circumstances?
Arizona has a long history of plague. It's not common, but there have been a string of events going back many years.
What precautions are indicated when skinning a predator? I know that I have never taken any, at all? Latex gloves seem sissified? Now what?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lungbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 630
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posted November 10, 2007 08:58 AM
I always thought using rubber gloves would make me a girl, but last year my friend almost lost a finger due to a nasty infection he got. The doctor said he probably picked up the infection from skinning animals without wearing gloves. The bacteria entered his blood from a small cut or hangnail...
I'm wearing rubber gloves this year.
Posts: 225 | From: Idaho | Registered: Mar 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 10, 2007 09:31 AM
Latex gloves seem sissified?
Yep, and being dead is real manly. LOL
I guess it's my germophobic way from years in EMS and all that training being drummed into my head about bloodborne pathogens, but by my best guess, even the nastiest patients I cared for had what appeared top be a better level of hygiene than the majority of coyotes I've skinned.
Whether I'm skinning in the field, or in the shop, I double glove - just in case the first pair gets a nick and rips open. When in the shop, I also wear a rubber apron that extends down below the tops of the rubber boots I wear out there specifically for skinning and fleshing. And, all that garb stays in the shop because, quite frankly, I don't know which will kill me faster... the crap in the coyote, or my wife for dragging any of that into the house.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 10, 2007 09:34 AM
Oh, to address the original question...
As tragic as it it, he paid the price for failing to doing something I know for a fact he was trained to do. He took a shortcut and now, he's dead. Again, the issue of dealing with a dead animal from unknown causes, not to mention that his job was to determine the cause of death. You'd think that somewhere along the line, he'd have considered that whatrever the causative factor might be, it was FATAL to the lion. Can you say "zoonoses"?
[ November 10, 2007, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 10, 2007 11:29 AM
Yeah, Lance. I agree with you. That's what I was trying to say above.
I've never warn gloves while pulling fur, but messing with an animal that died under unknown circumstances is a whole different deal. Obviously, it it didn't look likeit croaked from old age, you should figure that whatever it had, it could be contagious.
Still, the last case I recall, and there could have been many more that I didn't hear about, it was in Parker, AZ, and it was ground squirrels that had plague. Hanta is another possibility, but it is from breathing rodent feces dust.
Hell, we could probably die from one of those computer viruses you hear about on the Internet?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 10, 2007 12:16 PM
The ones that will kill you are one thing. The ones that put the hurt on ou are something else entirely different. I was lax in using gloves until several years ago when I read about some species of roundworm common in coons that gets into your body then travels to your brain where they encyst and grow, making you blind and wishing you would die from the pain. A lot ofm guys just don't like the feel of wearing them. The hassle, I guess. Sort of like a condom, huh. But, I learned to start IV's and everything else that took a very gentle touch with them on and now, they don't bother me a bit. I guess it's what you're willing to get used to. I also wouldn't want to track anything into the house where I might expose my family or our pets to something.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted November 10, 2007 12:38 PM
I started wearing latex gloves when I field dress big game a few years ago. My primary reason, although the secondary reasons may be more important, is that clean up of my hands is so much easier. Take the gloves off and everything I handle afterwards doesn't get blood on it and also need cleaned up, such as bow, rifle, etc.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 10, 2007 02:56 PM
I've been wearing latex gloves for some years now for that same reason - just to keep my hands a little bit more clean.
I'd no idea that predators could carry plague though. I knew that prairie dogs and such do, but it's news to me about the predators.
Two weeks ago I was picking fleas out of my hair and my beard for a couple days after skinning some coyotes. Didn't think too much of it, the fleas never seem to stick around on me for more than a couple of days. But, if there is a possibility of plauge, and as far as I know fleas are the common vector, I just might start getting a little bit more interested when I get them!
Unrelated side note... Most of the places I hunt, we hardly ever see a flea on the coyotes. Tried a new spot two weeks ago, got into the coyotes real good, but they had fleas. Didn't notice until I felt them partying under my hat. Anyone else notice that coyotes in some places always have fleas, but coyotes in other places never do?
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted November 10, 2007 03:50 PM
I wear rubber-gloves also when i'm skinning. At first it was just to keep my hands clean. But now i wear them to prevent from getting any nasty infections and so on.. quote:
Whether I'm skinning in the field, or in the shop, I double glove
I bet you where the first to use double condems too Lance... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 10, 2007 04:31 PM
I didn't wear gloves until I heard of that Roundworm that Lance mentioned. Then I started using dishwashing gloves while skinning. They hold up a lot better.
For big game, I always like wearing the shoulder gauntlets that you get from trapping supply houses for trapping Muskrats in icy water. If for no other reason than they kept the blood off of my sleeves and I didn't have to wash my jacket so often.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 10, 2007 06:15 PM
quote:
I bet you where the first to use double condems too Lance...
Only because it takes two anyway! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Seriously, I heard something the other night on TV about "bias ply condoms" (I smell a side track here). My only reaction to that is WTF?!?
Tim, I know guys around here that carry those long gloves used for artificial insemination for field dressing deer and elk.
When I first started in EMS, we did a demonstration for hospital staff where one of our people treated their hands with a clear solution, then we ran a mock call in the back of the ambulance. When we "arrived at the hospital" and the back of the ambulance was vacated, we went back with a black light and it showed everything the technicians touched during the time they cared for the patient. The idea was to show new people how much of the interior was contaminated and how much had to be disinfected after every call. Even the old dogs were shocked at how the back of that bus lit up under black light.
The point in me telling you this is that if you don't use gloves, you'd be sickened to see how much of your truck and gear you contaminate with koodie bugs through the course of a day after skinning just one coyote bare handed.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2007 03:01 PM
I have hardly ever noticed fleas. Never seen fleas on coyotes or bobcat, but have seen a few on gray fox.
I have seen mange (at a check in) on a few AZ coyotes, but not any I killed.
I'll consider gloves for something other than filling the tank. I just don't want to be called a sissy.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CindyTraps
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1893
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posted November 11, 2007 03:59 PM
There are actually alot of fleas on AZ critters. Some probably already do this but we always carry some powder throw them in a bag and close it up till the next stop then take them out and skin. That kills them dead, lol.
And is better than bug spray, less fumes,etc.
When you do alot of fur you notice the darn things more.
And not on accident usually as they are crawling up your pants or something to that effect.
George decided to bring in a hide on a stretcher and put by the fireplace like 20 yrs ago. Well the next thing you know the house was infested with fleas. Needless to say he got in big trouble, he dont do that anymore and we always carry a box of garbage bags and a big bottle of indutrial flea powder direct from pest control store.
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Happy Trails
Posts: 113 | From: Seligman, Arizona | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2007 06:20 PM
Thaat's interesting, Cindy. To be honest, I don't pull much fur on AZ coyotes.
Don't ask me why. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CindyTraps
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1893
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posted November 12, 2007 05:47 AM
I actually just had the place sprayed really good and am going tomorrow to get some stuff for the cats and dogs kinda a pre treatment.
As next week hopefully we begin to hit it hard.
The point I was trying to make on the hide on the stretcher was even though it is skinned if the fleas are there they burrow down under the hair and you dont see them till they are jumping on you or biting, damn things.
Kinda hang on for dear life for a bit.
He was trying to hurry and get the hide dry so he could flip the the skin on the stretcher as we had to go somewhere so that is why he decided to bring it in.
Man everytime I think of the after math I could kill him, lol
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Happy Trails
Posts: 113 | From: Seligman, Arizona | Registered: Oct 2007
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