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Author
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Topic: Lying liars and the lies
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 22, 2005 12:57 PM
Updated: 08:39 PM EDT
Judge Orders Northeast Wolf Restoration
By DAVID GRAM, AP
AP
The ruling covers the restoration of the gray wolf in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and New York state.
MONTPELIER, Vt. (Aug. 19) - A federal judge Friday ordered the Bush administration to step up efforts to restore the gray wolf to four northeastern states, a ruling environmentalists called a major victory.
"The wolves are howlin"' in celebration, said Patrick Parenteau, director of the environmental law clinic at Vermont Law School.
Judge J. Garvan Murtha found that the Department of the Interior violated federal law in 2003 when it issued a rule saying no further efforts to restore the wolf were needed. The ruling covers Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and New York state.
Efforts to restore wolves had been successful in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan. The government wanted to lump those states in with the Northeast in a new, 21-state eastern region, and declare that enough had been done to restore wolf populations throughout the eastern United States.
Anthony Tur, a Fish and Wildlife Service field officer in Concord, N.H., said the agency's headquarters in Washington would decide whether to appeal the ruling.
He questioned the push to build gray wolf populations in the Northeast on two fronts, saying it wasn't clear that the public would support such a move and there was dispute in the scientific community about whether gray wolves ever populated the region.
Environmental groups, including the National Wildlife Federation and state groups in Vermont, Maine and New York, joined in the lawsuit. They argued that good wolf habitats exist in northern Maine and in New York's Adirondack Mountains, and that northern Vermont and New Hampshire likely would become an important corridor for wolves migrating between those two habitats.
Parenteau, lead attorney in the case, said his students "did all the hard labor in the case. It's a nice victory for our students."
08-19-05 19:29 EDT
All I can say is that judging cases based on student research has been proven to be unreliable. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31492 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted August 22, 2005 01:26 PM
I don't know how this will play out, but there is a state law in New Hampshire that makes it illegal to reintroduce wolves into the state.
Maybe federal law will over rule it.
I don't know how to take it. There are already wolves here, not many, but there are a few. We see their tracks, and we sometimes, maybe once a year hear them. I am torn. On one hand, I would love to have them out there, on the other hand, they will be the death knell of an already dwindling deer herd, and they will put a dent in the moose herd as well.
I would imagine that will be a lot of shooting, shoveling and shutting up going on with many of the folks who live in what we call "the north country" if they are reintroduced.
Tough one for me. Two sides to everything I suppose.
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Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted August 22, 2005 03:46 PM
Here's what the folks back east can look foward to.
On the 15th, the Service issued a 45-day Shoot-On-Sight permit to an Idaho Livestock Company authorizing their employees to shoot up to 3 adult wolves on the Hershey/Lava, Brundage, Josephine, Twenty Mile, Pearl Creek, Cougar and Grassey grazing allotments on the Payette National Forest in Adams and Valley Counties, Idaho. The Company is experiencing chronic wolf depredations on sheep bands at multiple locations within these allotments and WS is also implementing several lethal control actions. Bands are protected by herders and guard dogs.
On the 17th, ID WS specialist Mann captured and killed a large (120 lb.+), gray male wolf at the Lava Ridge site on the Payette National Forest. Signals from B-180 or B-183 were not heard. The control action is ongoing and probably involves members of the Partridge Creek pack.
On the 13th, ID WS brought in a contract helicopter to conduct an aerial shooting operation on members of the Steel Mountain pack west of Big Trinity Lake in the Boise National Forest. Despite having 3 collared members to use as locators, the wolves were never spotted in the open and no wolves were removed. ID WS Specialist Gary Looney resumed his trapping operation to remove wolves that had killed 46 sheep (confirmed), 7 sheep (probable) and a guard dog (confirmed) over the last two weeks.
On the 16th, a fixed winged aerial shooting operation was conducted in Copper Basin on the Challis National Forest following the control action that took place last month where 6 wolves from the Copper Basin pack were removed. The aircrew located B-227 (the sole collared animal that was intentionally left alive), she was with 2 more adult-sized wolves. The aircraft made one pass before the wolves made it to the timber but one gray wolf was taken. Due to the terrain, it was not recovered. On the 19th, another wolf was taken.
On the 16th, ID WS Specialist Justin Mann confirmed 4 sheep killed on a grazing allotment near Josephine Lake in the Payette National Forest. The band had a herder, a camp tender, and 3 livestock guarding dogs. Unknown wolves are responsible for the depredation. Traps have been set and a control action to remove multiple wolves is underway. On the 18th, Mann captured and killed a gray, female, sub-adult wolf at the site after confirming another lamb killed from the night before.
On the 17th, ID WS received a call from a Nez Perce National Forest wildlife biologist , who reported that on the 18th, a fire crew witnessed 10-14 wolves attacking an adult cow in a creek near Slate Lake. The FS biologist and livestock owner looked thoroughly for a carcass but, as it turns out, the fire crew may have spooked the wolves from the cow before they were able to kill it. WS is inquiring to see if any of the fire crew members happened to photograph any of what they reported.
Early this year wolves from the new uncollared Pacific Creek pack, just north of Grand Teton National Park, killed 2 cows on an allotment in the Park. Cattle were moved into an open meadow complex in the Wilderness area to the north and on the 10th another adult cow was killed. On the 13th, a calf was killed and consumed. In an agreement with the permittee and Forest Service, cattle were moved about 6 miles south into another grazing area in the hopes of avoiding further losses. However, on the 15th a steer was killed. The area has numerous grizzly bears that quickly claim the kills [and even burying tarps the riders used to cover the carcass for examination by WS] so trapping is not an option. The only road in the area is heavily used by outfitters and recreationists packing into the Wilderness. The wolves are packing off a lot of the carcasses, so we suspect pups are being fed. The permittee was offered a shoot-in-the-act of biting or grasping authorization as permitted by the 1994 experimental population rules still in effect in Wyoming because the state wolf plan was not approved by the Service. Control options maybe limited to ground shooting, which in forested habitat is difficult to implement. Jimenez spent the 17th, riding with a local outfitter who runs a pack string business to investigate areas where wolves have been repeatedly seen.
On the 16th, WS confirmed a calf was killed by a wolf on an allotment near Kemmerer, WY. Local ranchers have reported seeing a black wolf in the vicinity on several occasions. WS investigated two possible wolf-killed calves several weeks ago but the carcasses were so deteriorated cause of death could not be confirmed. WS was authorized to kill a single wolf. This area is grazed by about 7,000 cattle and 10,000 ewes plus their lambs during summer. On the 18th, a ewe and a lamb were confirmed as wolf-killed in the same area. Control is ongoing.
The Carter Mountain pack [4 adults and 4 pups left] in Wyoming, killed another calf on the 16th. WS was authorized to remove another adult or two. Four pack members have already been removed for cattle depredations earlier this summer.
On the 17th, WS investigated 3 suspected wolf-killed calves near Horse Creek by Dubois, WY. WS was able to confirm one as a wolf kill but the other two carcasses were too decayed to determine cause of death. WS was authorized to trap, collar, and release a wolf on-site to determine what if any pack [Washakie is adjacent to this area] was involved.
On the 19th, WY WS received a report of a possible wolf depredation on sheep on a BLM grazing allotment near Farson, WY. They will be able to investigate it later today.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 22, 2005 04:12 PM
Why is it so hard to see the stupidity involved in all this needless activity?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31492 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted August 22, 2005 04:16 PM
Where these animals will be release, if they are, there are no sheep farms, no cattle farms and no other type of livestock. Heck, there are not even a lot of people up there. What is up there are some deer, although very few, less than 7 per square mile in the highest density areas and less than 1 pre square mile in the lowest, and some moose. I suspect the wolves will take the moose, and once that herd is depleted they will move southward to where there are dairy farms. The depredtation on the deer and the moose herd is why I think the wolves will not survive long in NH. The natives will not allow it.
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Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 22, 2005 05:50 PM
Don't be surprised how many "natives" will rat out their neighbors. It's hard to fight the eco- wackos the Feds and State agencies and all the fine upstanding liberal Democratic citizens.
People out west aren't a bunch of sissies either, but teams of well healed lawyers can scare the hell out of people, even if the Feds look the other way.
It's just stupid to spend all the money and energy on things that the locals don't support. Let them release wolves in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco and Central Park in NYC.
Forget about inventing a new frontier in other people's back yard.
Good hunting. LB
PS that's another thing. All they have to do is allow sport hunting when they get out of hand. I am not okay with aircraft and telemetry and crusading (and high paid) wildlife managers. I wish the Democrats would get upset about that part of the Federal budget. In other words, who thinks we can afford these type of experiments? I do not.
[ August 22, 2005, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31492 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted August 22, 2005 07:16 PM
"On the 17th, ID WS received a call from a Nez Perce National Forest wildlife biologist , who reported that on the 18th, a fire crew witnessed...."
Clairvoyant??
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted August 22, 2005 08:29 PM
Jack,
You don't miss a lick do ya ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
Byron
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 22, 2005 09:34 PM
I remember very well all the talk going on here before they brought the wolves in from Canada. I heard quite a few people say they didn't think the wolves could survive here because of the lack of animals like caribou and locals shooting the wolves at every chance. We now know just how well those wolves did. There have been quite a few cases of SOS going on but the wolves seem to be doing well.
The wolves in Idaho were released just about as far back as you can get in the biggest wilderness areas in the lower 48. No cattle, sheep, etc. are allowed in the wilderness. The thought was they would mostly stay in the designated wilderness areas. Some did. As the population grew wolves have spread very quickly to the outlying areas.
We were just barely off the pavement a couple of weeks ago near a very popular camping, rafting, fishing area and had a pack of wolves start howling several hundred yards away.
Rob, thats some interesting info you provided where did you find it? I know Justin Mann with WS had to kill a whole pack (7 Wolves I think?) last year in the same general area that had taken to killing sheep and couldn't be stopped.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted August 22, 2005 11:21 PM
Here ya go Lonny...http://westerngraywolf.fws.gov/
Scroll down to the status reports..they are updated about every two weeks..If you scroll all the way down you'll find the archived status reports they go back to 1998...In one report a rancher north of Yellowstone Park watched two wolves haze a cow elk into a open corral close to his house but he scared them off before they could kill it...lots of good readin for ya Lonny.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 23, 2005 02:22 AM
This is maddness!!! What will the eco-wackos want next.....Grizzleys back in Yosemite??
"Eco-wacko". I like that one, and will try to use it often.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7589 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 23, 2005 05:42 AM
Thanks Rob. I'll check it out.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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