This is topic How many going to Nationals? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on October 28, 2005, 09:03 AM:
Just wanted to see how many of you guys will be in Rawlins? It's kind of nice to put the faces with the call sign
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 28, 2005, 10:33 AM:
When?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 28, 2005, 07:46 PM:
Next Friday and Saturday Leonard. Get you a partner and come on up! It's a good time. Calcutta and check in on Thursday night. I'll be there.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 28, 2005, 08:05 PM:
I "thought" retirement would allow me to do more of these out-of-state things? I guess what I found out was; who is in charge.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on October 28, 2005, 08:23 PM:
What IS that Calcutta thing??
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 28, 2005, 08:39 PM:
An Auction. What it means is that you can bid on Cal's team to win. A separate pool.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 28, 2005, 09:10 PM:
An auction, or a side bet pool for the winning team? Is it called an auction as a shield for gambling?
Posted by Jack Roberts (Member # 13) on October 28, 2005, 10:20 PM:
NASA
Yes! And the odds, as usual, favor the house.
Jack
Posted by catskin (Member # 51) on October 28, 2005, 11:13 PM:
Gimme $20 on Cal to Show, I'm good for it - promise.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 29, 2005, 07:01 AM:
Yep, it's gambling. And we drink beer too! It can get pretty entertaining, with the better known teams bringing some large $$$$. The unfair part is that some of the lesser known teams are just as good and don't bring much money and can buy themselves far cheaper and that just ain't fair. But I do my best to see that doesn't happen. Just ask ND!! We always try to buy ourselves, but it can get rather pricey and last year was no exception. At Rawlins, they donate 10 or 15 percent to a scholarship fund and the rest goes back into the pot for the top 3 teams. It usually pays several thousand dollars to win.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 29, 2005, 08:29 AM:
Not being at all familiar, I have to ask. Several thou to the winning team, or to the winner of the Calcutta? Or, is the Calcutta the jackpot awarded to the winning team? In 40 years of killing coyotes I've never been in a contest, so this is all foreign.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 29, 2005, 09:28 AM:
Nasa, Whoever buys the winning team in the auction collects the calcutta money. Most teams try to buy themselves, but not all. It is an open auction and anyone there is free to buy any team they wish, sold at auction to the highest bidder. For example, if you were there, and wished to buy the Johnson team you would have to be the highest bidder in the auction, then if they happened to to place in the top three, you would win. The calcutta pays three places. The hunt entry fees are seperate, $200 per team, and placed in a seperate pool, and the teams are also competeing for that money. They usually pay eight places in the hunt pool. So if you have 80 teams at $200 a team you have $16,000 in that pool.
[ October 29, 2005, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 29, 2005, 09:53 AM:
Thanks Cal, I wish I could get there in time for the bidding process. I'd like to see it in action. I may be able to get there by Fri. night, though. Is there a check-in each day? If so, where and what time. I've been to Rawlins a few times, so I kinda know the town. If you see a big Ford with FURDOWN plates, that's me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 29, 2005, 10:59 AM:
Nasa,
There is a checkin by 7:00 p.m. on Friday night and then again at 2 or 3 pm on Saturday. Then another beer drinking contest on Saturday night. Everything is held at The Lodge (motel) on the east side of town.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 29, 2005, 11:11 AM:
It's a little like a horse race, Tom. If you have an experienced team, hunting good area, they have a good chance of winning. When you kill everything you see, it boils down to ; how many did you see?
Of course, how are you going to know this, cold?
Maybe we could get together and pool our money on Cal's "Huntmasters Team"?
Actually, what it is all about is your contacts. If you can get behind locked gates, it's a step in the right direction.
Now, if Cal shared his previously negotiated hunting area with me, I might roll? I bet he has more area than one team can use? Hunting cold is tough. That is where locals have the upper hand.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 29, 2005, 11:33 AM:
Sounds a lot like a horse race, in more ways than one. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I plan to do my best to get there in time for the Saturday check-in and beer bash. Then dash back to CO on Sunday morning. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on October 29, 2005, 01:24 PM:
Cal,
We used to have calcutta's at the bigger bullridings around. Here is a tip on how to buy yourself a little cheaper at these deals. You'll have to tailor it to coyote hunting but the effects will be the same. Show up wearing stupid looking clothes and getting around on crutches. I woukld think maybe an eye patch and maybe one arm in a sling would help as well. Plaser is cheap and a cast to your hip could save some money as well.
Good luck, and kill a bunch.
Byron ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 29, 2005, 04:35 PM:
I'd try it Byron, if I thought it would help. But I'm too close to home and we've placed there before. But we didn't place last year, so that may help, well actually about 5 or 6 teams tied for about 6th through 11th or 12th, and ties are broken by check in time, and we were the last to check in so we didn't place. Leonard, if I had the ground I'd share, but we have an on going battle with another team for the same territory. Hopefully this year we will have most of it to ourselves. Last year we thought we were the only ones with permission in certain areas, and found out we were wrong. I hate it when that happens.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 30, 2005, 08:27 AM:
Cal, do you take your dogs on the contest hunts?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 30, 2005, 10:12 AM:
Nope Rich, They are pretty specific about that. No Dogs, No night hunting, no snowmobile hunting, no airplanes, partners must stay together (ask Scott Huber about that one) etc. etc..
If it weren't for all these damn rules, I might have a chance.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on October 30, 2005, 10:35 AM:
Cal,
Do you have to be checked in by the given time frame or is that when they start? If you weren't concerned about a tie breaker what would the latest that you could show up.
Just wondering about how many miles from Rawlins a guy could actually hunt and still make checkin.
Dennis
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 30, 2005, 11:38 AM:
That's a big part of it, Dennis. One more stand equals one more dog. Maybe two more dogs? But you lose a couple places in line. A judgement call. You can be disqualified for reckless driving, too. Some guys might hunt two hours drive, if they think it's worth the downtime? More, maybe? Judgement call. A close in hunting area with a lot of animals is worth a lot.
Good hunting. LB
edit: there is no allowance for being thirty seconds late, you are disqualified, period. Lots of teams trade an extra animal for arriving a minute or two too late. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ October 30, 2005, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on October 30, 2005, 12:17 PM:
I and a friend hunted the Elko game a couple years ago and I never did get a straight understanding to what the hunting together part menat. Do you have a clear understanding of exactly what the rule there means? Within sight of each other, 10 yards, out of the same vehicle, teamed up????
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on October 30, 2005, 03:33 PM:
Doggitter, I believe that means a two person team must hunt together, it does not mean you have to make stands together. Example...Drop off one guy to make a stand as the other one goes down the road a 1/2 mile and makes a stand. You are not hunting together, but you are as far as a team goes.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 30, 2005, 03:50 PM:
At Rawlins the way they explained it to me is that the truck can't move without both hunters in it. So you can't drop one guy off, and travel down the road to make another stand. Supposedly you are supposed to pretty much be on the same stand, but that is a pretty grey area, as to how far you can be apart.
As for the check ins, you can be early, but you can't be late.
[ October 30, 2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 30, 2005, 11:29 PM:
Yeah, you are wrong about that Danny. No dropping off and picking up, while you make solitary stands. Of course, I think it's a stupid rule. If a team feels they can handle 90% of the animals alone, why not let them split up?
Now, the way around this is to have each guy walk to separate sides of the road and make their own stands, gray area be damned.
It's still a judgement call because you are never in the best position for every animal. Sometimes it's great to have your partner pick off one you didn't see.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on October 31, 2005, 07:19 AM:
WOW i was away from the computer for the weekend and missed all the responses. And yes the unknown teams can get by a little cheaper up until the year they place well unless your unlucky like myself and have some SOB that has killed more coyotes than mange bidding your team up because he has talked to you on a website LOLOLOLOL Even if you guys can't make it up for the hunt you should try to make it saturday night for the beer drinking part! Last year we sat up with Les Johnson, I think it was "songdog" and the Schmid brothers and a few other guys that i can't recall the names of and BSed about calling until they kicked us out of the bar!
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 31, 2005, 08:10 AM:
We kind of run on the same theory as you Leonard, and will split a ridge if it looks promising. But if we know there are multiple coyotes possible at one stand we set one guy in front and downwind with the AR and a shotgun, and the caller with a long range boomer above and behind. When multiples arrive it can get pretty fun. The most we have killed on one stand at a contest is 3, but we've done that a few times over the years. The most we've ever had show together was 5.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on October 31, 2005, 08:58 AM:
Thanks Leonard and Cal, I never read the rules to that hunt, strange rule to say the least. How do they inforce such a rule?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 31, 2005, 09:36 AM:
Good question Danny, There really isn't any enforcement, unless someone just happens to see you without your partner. I know that has happened and people have gotten DQ'd. But I'm sure someone has gotten away with it also. To me personally, if I had to cheat to win, it would be a pretty hollow victory, and I wouldn't want to chance getting caught.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 31, 2005, 11:08 AM:
Cal, I agree about it being a hollow victory, but there is a little more to it, if they dream up too many UNENFORCEABLE RULES. That is what got Scott in trouble, knowing other guys were doing it.
Also, things like double teaming, I think it can still be done, temperature wise. Does the one on the bottom of the pile get heat from the exhaust, or does the top animal lose body heat from direct sunshine? Hard to say with certainty, and I assure you; where there is money involved, some people are less interested in hollow victories than hard cash?
Good hunting. LB
[ October 31, 2005, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on October 31, 2005, 12:48 PM:
Do they not polygraph or voice stress???
I have never contest hunted, but have fished enough bass tournaments to know that I wouldnt be any good at cheating..... Besides the hollow victory, the shit you get for getting caught. Your pretty well done in the world of fishing anyway. Ive seen people treated like they had the plague after being caught cheating.
Its a fairly small knit group anyway, and most people know each other within a region that do it alot. And, if you ever win a larger tournament, big cash or boat and vehicle, or something along those lines, you get tested.
Ive been lucky enough to take a few tests and they dont ask if you cheated this time. They ask if you have ever cheated....
Pretty big question.
Andy
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 31, 2005, 02:12 PM:
I know what you are saying, Andy. And, I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea; I'm not defending cheating. What I am refering to is illogical and unenforcable rules of the hunt. I doubt that Scott was the first and only person to get caught splitting up his team, but I spent a fair amount of time visiting with him in St Francis and he didn't seem to be the pariah of the group, since I think he was mostly trying to make a statement. In other words, since I don't really agree with the rule, or understand it's purpose, what happened to him was more or less a rule infraction like being late, and disqualified, rather than cheating, per se.
Also, Bass tournaments are one thing with their own problems and flagrant violations, inventive as they may be. But, come on. What the hell kind of question is: "have you ever cheated?"
What if you shot an animal that crossed the road, and wasn't actually "called"? Many people do this, few would turn down the opportunity. To me, it's a technicality....and uninforceable.
So, you answer; "Yes, five years ago, me and my partner split up the team and hunted separately, like a number of others, but somebody saw my truck with only one occupant." Or, we once shot a coyote mousing in a pasture, but we didn't place on the hunt. What does that have to do with the current event. I can't see how that is a fair question?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on October 31, 2005, 02:44 PM:
I dont know the hunt contest rules, Leonard, so I couldnt even begin to make a call on that...
I dont know who Scott is, let alone what happened. I was just making a general statement about Tournaments and Contests. I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I am purely interested in how it goes. Not trying to extract confessions.
Now, this is only my opinion, but if they are governed tight enough, people will police themselves. Then you dont have to worry when you go speak into the little mic or put the little clips on your fingers. Just answer the questions and smile.
Yeah, its a helluva big question, but I had to answer it.
Andy
[ October 31, 2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 31, 2005, 05:37 PM:
The temperature deal is a good guess as far as I'm concerned. No way that a coyote blown to pieces will hold as much heat as one with a entrance and no exit. Or a shotgunned one. I've seen both in the same pile. We had a suspect coyote at the Gillette hunt last year, and it got passed as OK, but they thought it was a little cold, funny thing was it was not the first or last shot. It was right in the middle. I think we killed five that day and it was the third or fourth one, and they said it was suspect for being too cold. That is when I knew for a fact that the temp deal wasn't accurate at all. I agree that they can tell if it was killed that day, but thats about it as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on October 31, 2005, 07:15 PM:
"but if they are governed tight enough, people will police themselves"
I don't believe that much. Sure, most people will because most people are pretty honest.I've heard stories about happenings within the contests that bristles my neck hair. The tightening of the rules is just a reason to get more crafty in cheating for some. Seems like if some would take some cheating energy and put it into hunting better they'd be more productive.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 31, 2005, 07:18 PM:
I think most cheaters are found out sooner or later Doggitter. They may get away with something for a while, but sooner or later it seems like someone knows what they are doing.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on October 31, 2005, 08:11 PM:
Cal, believe it or not I've probably been on a hundred + competition hunts since 1975. I know what you are saying. What do you prove if you have to cheat ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I believe if you take money out of the game, you'll be getting rid of some cheaters. It's really sad these guys have to play for money. What ever happened to friendly competition?
Leonard was competing long before some of these new guys were ever born and I was competing against "OLD" Leonard now and then ....But guess what? We never had to cheat, didn't have to. I think it's called honor, something that's very much lacking in today's world sad to say.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 31, 2005, 08:16 PM:
Dang Cal, rooms at the Lodge are a mite pricey. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on October 31, 2005, 11:20 PM:
I hope you're right Cal. May very well be that it was kind of a shock when I heard the stories so they meant more than is really the case.
onecoyote, you are so right. There are lots of hard feelings I noticed since attending that one contest I did. Mentioned to to a few people and since I was freshly curious about them I noticed some real bad vibes. All because of the cheating. You're so right about the money.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 01, 2005, 07:20 AM:
I thought they were about $50 Nasa. Maybe that was last years prices? It's not a nice enough place to charge much! LOL!
It's supposed to be windy, I'm not looking forward to that. Down there in the wind is not fun, and there are damn few places to get out of it. Anyway, I'm heading out today, to spend some scouting time. I'll be back Sunday.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on November 01, 2005, 07:36 AM:
Good luck! Looking forward to having a HM member name on the top of the winners list.
Dennis
[ November 01, 2005, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on November 01, 2005, 08:06 PM:
Cal,
Wyoming is the most beautiful place I've ever been, But I don't think either of us are old enough to remember when it wasn't windy there.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on November 01, 2005, 09:01 PM:
I won't be entering, but I'll bring the Swift along just so's I don't feel nekid. Besides, there's still a few PD's above ground.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on November 01, 2005, 09:27 PM:
NASA, Dusty and I went coyote hunting the other day. Some rancher told us we could hunt his ranch no problem...BUT...for every coyote we kill we have to kill 5 PDs on his ranch...and we did.
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