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Author
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Topic: Whitetails already hitting the ground
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 17, 2005 04:56 AM
I spend an enormous amount of time hunting between my own adventures and guiding, but this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this. While out coyote scouting a month ago I came across some whitetail fawn tracks. Obviously these little guys being a couple months early blew my mind but I thought it may be a fluke... then I found another set of tracks on a different farm two weeks later. I became suspicious.
My brother called last night and told me to come over and check something out in one of his hay fields... I came home with conclusive evidence that whitetail fawns are out and about!
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Anyways, if you guys are doing dep-work this spring I thought you may find it helpful to see the fawns are out. I'm going to start Friday with fawn in distress and see how it plays out, I hope to whack a few dogs by mimicing the premature fawn bleats.
[ May 17, 2005, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted May 17, 2005 05:12 AM
Nice pics. Out here the antelope are doing the same thing, I guess you could say it's that time of the year.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 17, 2005 05:24 AM
Saw two myself yesterday. Its not all that uncommon around here, I have had fawns literally right on me while turkey hunting in years past and thats the first week of May. Hard to believe how small they really are if you have never seen one.
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted May 17, 2005 06:06 AM
We did first cutting of hay during the last half of May each year while growing up. It was a rare year that we didn't kill at least one fawn while doing our first cut.
The little things would hide in the tall grass until the last second and jump out too late to stop the tractor.
I hated hitting them, but every year you knew it was going to happen, it was just a question of when.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 17, 2005 06:41 AM
In Indiana it is fairly uncommon to have fawns on the ground on the 14th of May ( First for us since 1999 ). It is extremely rare to have fawns in the middle of April. We were preparing to mow fields when we found this guy, now we'll have to wait another week and then have walkers kick up any fawns before they get sucked into the mower deck. Given a week or two on their feet the fawns will be able to get up and out of the way much better. That is of course assuming that these fawns are sprinkling in... if they start dropping left and right we'll put off mowing for another month.
The rut phase from last fall puts a high percentage of the drop dates for this springs fawns around June 6-11th so these fawns are either premature or their mothers were impregnated around late September of last year.
I noticed some other does were missing from the fields last night, they may have separated themselves in order to drop fawns as well. I plan on setting up some trail cameras to see some of these little guys, I’m also wanting to film a coyote den and see what those pups are eating. Last year we documented over 40 fawn deaths to coyotes, gonna see if I can tweak those numbers this summer. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted May 17, 2005 07:19 AM
Very COOL! pics. Good luck on the dogs. Looking forward to a story & of course pics ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
I'm hoping to get out in a day or so after the dogs. My foot is doing pretty swell ![[Smile]](smile.gif) .
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 17, 2005 08:59 AM
That does suck Tim, in two ways....
I have more than once had to dig one out from the rollers of a haybine. Hate to run over the little devils and its a bitch to get them out as well.
But, I dont care how hard you try, if you got a good stand of fescue, you cannot see them. I guess mother natures camo and instict does em in when tractors are involved....
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2005 09:11 AM
I know nothing about whitetails, but with blacktails and mule deer, if you get early weather, it can trigger the rut, regardless of the calendar.
As far as weather, here on the left coast, this past season was one of near record, precipitation; in whatever form?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 17, 2005 02:07 PM
You can about time any rut or fish spawning from the moon. From what Ive seen anyway.
Bass normally spawn here in April, early May. They are on the beds heavy right now. Almost a month late. But the full moons this weekend....
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted May 17, 2005 05:36 PM
The haybine made a mess. And I hated having to clean one, But I'll never forget the one's I hit with the cycle bar before Dad started renting that haybine.
I think that was enough to bring tears to the eyes of even the most hardened a$$hole on earth.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 17, 2005 07:42 PM
Ya never cried a lick did ya Tim? Haha, just kidding.
I have the unfortunate tasks of dealing with dozens of mutulated fawns each year... Sure makes it a pleasure when I get to do this-
[ May 17, 2005, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2005 07:49 PM
another myth busted. Eastern coyotes romp across an open field, coming to the call?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 17, 2005 09:35 PM
"I have the unfortunate tasks of dealing with dozens of mutulated fawns each year... Sure makes it a pleasure when I get to do this- "
I don't understand the correlation.
If the fawns were mutilated by haybines shouldn't you be stomping on the farmer instead of a badly hit coyote?
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 18, 2005 05:30 AM
The myth is busted... that pair of coyotes came 800 yards across an open field. Difference being, this is one of the few stands I have that much open ground on. They'll come across it if the situation is right, these dogs didn't have much of a chance to get in the woods on us because of our setup.
Rich, the fawns I deal with are not mutulated by farm equipment, they are mangled and devoured by feral dogs and/or natural predators like coyote and fox. My family owns and operates the largest guiding service in the state, we try pretty hard not to mulch our future trophies.
Sorry for the badly hit coyote, we can't all shoot like the experts of the southwest.
[ May 18, 2005, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 18, 2005 06:24 AM
"Sorry for the badly hit coyote, we can't all shoot like the experts of the southwest."
Jrbhunter, I've seen quite a few coyotes, badly hit by southwest hunters, dispatched with a smallcaliber sidearm or a heart stomp. I've just never seen anyone strangle a coyote with a boot on the throat and take pleasure in it.
Sorry that I misunderstood the
mutilation to be natural predation rather than mulching by farm machinery.
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 18, 2005 07:01 AM
Yet again your assumptions are incorrect Rich.
What we have here is the Indiana version of the southwest heart stomp... photos don't do it justice. This guy was pretty lively so I held him down with a foot to the throat and rolled him over on his back, then pulled his front leg up in the air and dropped a knee in his heart. It was over quickly after that. This coyote weighed in at 43 pounds, not your average desert dog when it comes to stomping the remaining life out of him.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 18, 2005 07:58 AM
Jrbhunter, if my assumption was incorrect it is because I do not have a crystal ball and relied on the photo of you with your boot on the coyotes neck. Incidentally a photo of you kneeling on a coyote would have been much more dramatic than the two you did post.
Regardless, I didn't take issue with the act but with the mindset, the attitude of
" Sure makes it a pleasure when I get to do this...."
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Jrbhunter
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posted May 18, 2005 08:58 AM
Rich, crystal ball or not; you made the assumption and we both know what assumptions do. As I scanned through the 5,000 photos I have hosted on my website this was the most dramatic murder scene I could find for you… I’ll try harder next time.
I’ll likely have some photos later this spring that will give you an idea why I pursuit coyotes the way I do. By this I mean hunting year ‘round which likely turns your stomach. An explanation in this medium could take hours, especially with the assumptions and “holier than thou” impression I’m getting. I assure you that I'm a responsible hunter and do my fair share for our sport.
I’m sure you’re a good guy and you have probably forgotten more about coyotes than I’ll ever know. I’m just a guy that hunts and traps a lot, I’ve posted pictures and stories on websites in the past and received a few lectures from internet experts about how I’m hunting all wrong and not worshiping our god given coyotes enough. That’s when I get crabby and go back to the woods. If you think my dispatch methods or personal attitude need adjusting you really should hear me call or see me shoot… you’d have a field day.
I learn a lot from websites where long time callers come to mingle or discuss the sport and I’ve made dozens of great friends and hunting buddies from them. If you’re coming to Indiana anytime soon let me know, I’d be glad to show you around and explain the unique situation I have here. We (the ISTA) are hosting the NTA convention in August in Goshen. Tim Behle, Steve Craig and I will be there along with many other members I’m sure… it’d be like a Huntmasters reunion, Indiana style.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted May 18, 2005 09:35 AM
The scenario of "judging" another hunter or whatever. IMO, is what causes undo hard feelings. Once judgement is cast, it's hard to mend any damage, or "withdraw" your wrath.
Personally, I've shot a boatload of yotes. That didn't "die-instantly"....TOO bad. I try to kill'em quick, but life is not perfect...nor I.
Judgement, IMO...is GOD's.
Good job,on that dog, Jrbhunter. Enjoyed your pics.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 18, 2005 12:40 PM
2Dogsdoinwhatever, we are all "judged" by everything we post. Sometimes it results in agreement and sometimes the judgement results in an opposing opinion. You would apparently prefer that we not disagree on this board which brings to mind a quote from the great Southern playwright, Tennesee Williams................
"Fat chance, Ya'll."
Jrbhunter, I've been reading your posts on this board and HM for some time now and you've been rock solid. So I'm a little surprised that you've regarded my differing opinion as a personal attack on you. Reread my posts with an objective mindset. I will try to explain myself better.
You said
"I have the unfortunate tasks of dealing with dozens of mutulated fawns each year... Sure makes it a pleasure when I get to do this"
People who suffer loss from coyote depredation sometimes develope a powerful and irrational hatred for the coyote and some of them commit horrendous atrocities on the animal because of it. Coyotes have been skinned alive, jaws wired shut and released, lower jaw sawed off and released, captured with large fish hooks, hogtied and left to die slowly, and I've heard of one very creative form of torture. Taking pleasure in strangling a coyote promotes and perpetuates this attitude. When publicly posted by a successful and respected coyote hunter such as you probably legitimizes it to some people. It reminds me of the thread on PM where someone stated that all bitches should be fragged in their dens and several people agreed.
You made reference to a "holier than thou" impression and to "I’m hunting all wrong and not worshiping our god given coyotes enough.
Since you're implying that some people deify the coyote let's approach from that angle. The flip side is that some people demonize the coyote which is also a mistake. One reason they hate the coyote is because they attribute evil intent to the coyotes predation. The fact of the matter is that the coyote is simply being true to his nature. God made the coyote as an efficient, opportunistic predator. He did a dandy job of it. Some of us have developed a deep respect and even fondness for the coyote because of it's intelligence and nature. We are the ones that refer to them as coyotes instead of "Dawgs" or "yotes"( why doesn't anyone call them "trans" or the first half of the word like "co" or "can")
Most of the well experienced coyote hunters I know have at least that minimal respect for the animal. The others are probably frustrated by their inability to successfully call the coyote and refer to it with contempt as compensation.
The coyote is a worthy opponent and deserving of respect for that alone.
"
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 18, 2005 12:50 PM
I don't know? Look at the leg set of those rear legs, crossed exactly the same in each photo. That damned shotgun blast might have paralyzed his ass end, and thats what I notice?
Just doesn't look that lively to me,or course, you and I might have different definitions of what "lively" is, maybe could have given him two more minutes and he would have expired? I have a hunch that photo is a glory shot for your website, rather than a necessity:)
[ May 18, 2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted May 18, 2005 01:12 PM
Rich,
What I'm talking about, is not the disagreeing. You & I both know if you shoot enough coyotes & or your 1st. They often don't die immediately. Hmmmm, why did we shoot to begin with then?
As a matter of fact, why do we shoot anything? Do we eat-them, wear their skins, use their organs for medicinal reasons, use their bones to make eating utensils?, yada, yada.
My point being, I've never met or even heard of a hunter. Who can 100% of the time kill every animal. They've ever shot, with only one bullit.
As for agreeing or disagreeing. I'm not in the habit of respecting anyone, who always agrees. That don't cut-it IMB.
What I don't like is he or she, who deems it their job in life. To pick up the first "stone" to be cast.
Finally, I enjoy these boards. When someone posts a pic or story or both. They are "Not" asking for my opinion(s). Regardless of what they might say, thats their call.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 18, 2005 02:38 PM
Best get over that jaded viewpoint Dogs:) This is the internet man; If someone is showing their ass, I have no problem not only casting the first stone....I'll snatch a baseball bat to hit them over the head with:)
Hopefully, spirited disagreement will never go out of style on these boards. Strangely, the internet and this forum in particular, don't suffer fools gladly. If a fella is stretching the truth, or somehow out of line or thinking with a the general ethos of a given board...they are gonna catch hell from somebody.
Gawd, to think of the stone throwing incidents Ive seen and had with many of the guys here, would make your head spin, and I respect each and everyone of these guys, a better bunch is hard to find anywhere online:)
The point being Dogs, is that, if a guy commits an act of ignorance, or posts an inappropiate photo, SOMEBODY, has to stand up and call bullshit on it. It would seem you think the first to do so is the stinker, everyone that follows with disagreement is ok?
Different prospectives I suppose, but I admire the first guy to call it, not those who follow:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted May 18, 2005 02:51 PM
Rich, I have no problem with differing opinions or a good debate. I failed to see the good intentions behind your "shouldn't you be stomping on the farmer instead of a badly hit coyote?" comment. Turns out it was a mistaken assumption on your part on the farmer statement but the badly hit coyote simply wreaked of the mild intellect that AZ-hunter has brought to the table for us.
So then it turns out that a poorly hit coyote isn't all that uncommon in your book either... so we're back to two legitimate hunters talking. Right? Then you impose these dispatch tactics on me, again assuming I'm unfamiliar or uncaring. Then we digress and see you ask for more "dramatic photos" and the sticky little barbs that go along with that statement.
I better understand your point of view now, but as I said before you'll have to trust me on the unique circumstances I face. I know a dozen people that dread the coyote the way you've outlined for us, I'm not one. When I'm hunting or trapping on other private property or state owned ground I enjoy all aspects of the hunt much more than when I'm hunting on our properties... it becomes much more like work when paychecks depend on dead coyotes. I'd love to continue this discussion through emails-private messages or on the phone, you and I can have a serious conversation anytime you want.
AzHunter, you could've stopped with three little words. "I don't know" summed up your position pretty well. The coyote wasn't killed with a shotgun, the coyote wasn't even killed by ME. Not sure about the status of the coyotes central nervous system in either photograph, I'll leave that verdict to experts like you. When I tangoed with this coyote we had another coyote to start blood trailing about 30 yards to my left. You'll have to ask the shooter why he took the picture... I'll admit I do tend to have a photogenic effect on people sometimes.
Here's the real Glory Photo that did make it onto the IPC website.
Weight: 43 Pounds
Firearm: Browning A-Bolt 243
Range: 265 yards
Hunter: WeedWacker
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Jrbhunter
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posted May 18, 2005 02:59 PM
AZ, if you put anymore smiley faces in your post people are going to start wondering if you're really here for the hunting or not.
If someone was showing their ass or stretching the truth before you posted in this thread I'd like to hear about it. I think your ball bat was turned into a limp noodle with my last post... I'll let you go back to the drawing board and see if you can disect anything from the post or photographs your expertise finds phoney.
I'm not sure anyone called bullshit in this thread, but I'll be the first to call "Jackass".
Sorry Leonard, the expert is overwhelming my language.
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