|
Author
|
Topic: Two Questions
|
Dsmith7136
Knows what it's all about
Member # 732
|
posted November 28, 2006 09:05 AM
I have two questions for you guys: The first one is quick and easy; the second is a bit long-winded.
1. Have any of you wrapped your calling rifles with that "non-adhesive medical-type" camo tape, and noticed that it affected accuracy in any way?
2. How do you guys deal with call-shy coyotes? Recently my son and I spotted a pair of coyotes from afar (400-500 yards distant). We watched as they hunted due north, so we left them, drove a mile or two downwind and well ahead of them, hid the truck behind a ridge, hiked in several hundred yards against the wind with the sun at our backs, set up in a brushy draw and waited for them to hunt into sight. We didn't skyline ourselves, we had the wind and we concealed ourselves against head-high sage in deep, late-afternoon shadows. We blew no calls.
They came into view at about 300 yards 15 minutes later, and we watched them for another 4-5 minutes through binoculars until we were satisfied they were completely unaware of us. We're certain there's no way they could have seen, heard or smelled us, yet when we blew a relatively low-volume distress call, they immediately stopped hunting, looked our way, turned and walked off in the opposite direction.
This has happened to us on our last three hunts in this region (The Pawnee National Grasslands, a not-so-secret coyote haven in Northeastern Colorado). We spot coyotes, watch them for awhile, then set up making sure to take wind, sun, etc., into consideration and watch them as we call. There's no question they can hear the call; we watch them react to it, but they either - A. demonstrate a complete lack of interest and continue to go about their business, or B. calmly walk off in the opposite direction at the sound of a call. They don't panic, but they most definitely retreat, occasionally looking back in our direction as they go.
It seems like a pretty classic case of call-shy coyotes to us.We've tried changing distress sounds, reducing volume, making low threat interrogation howls (we think), and finally screaming hi-volume ki-yi puppy distress calls as a last resort - all the while watching their behavior. The howls and ki-yies will turn them or stop them temporarily, but nothing seems to excite them to come in to the call. We've also concluded that if this is happening with the coyotes we can actually see, it's most certainly happening with those we don't see.
My question is this: Do you quit wasting time on these "educated" dogs and look for more productive properties - or do you take them to be the ultimate challenge and wrack your brain conjuring up some new evil scheme to lure them into range? We really don't want to snipe them; after all, the fun is in the calling, right? but we're inclined to abandon this region and seek more fertile grounds. What would you guys do?
Oddly enough, I used to shotgun coyotes in this region 10-12 years ago; now it's a major victory to call one closer than 300 yards.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide to either of these questions.
Dennis
Loveland, CO
--------------------
Beware the man who shoots just one gun...
Posts: 44 | From: Loveland, CO | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
|
posted November 28, 2006 09:54 AM
1) Anything that contacts your barrel can change accuracy. From camo tape to shooting sticks. It may not be enough for you to notice while hunting, or it could be enough to cause a miss. Best thing to do is to wrap it up, then recheck the zero on your scope.
2) When I'm in an area that they hold up like that, I like to use Shooting sticks, a rangefinder, and a drop chart.
--------------------
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted November 28, 2006 11:09 AM
The rifle will still be accurate with the tape on, you just have to recheck youre zero and check it again if you decide to take the tape off on a later date.
(2). I do what tim does, i like to try and take atleast one of them out. I'll come back a week or two later and use a lone howl, or lost mate howl and try and get the second one. I won't use any prey distress sounds.
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5082 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
|
posted November 28, 2006 05:16 PM
I've got two predominant coyote rifles. One a 22-250 and the other a 222. Both are wrapped with camo-tape.
I've never had a bit of trouble with either. Although I have missed ( on extremely RARE occasions) with the guns. Was tape to blame?
Highly doubtful I'd think.
--------------------
The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
|
posted November 28, 2006 05:18 PM
Dang Tripp,
We've got to get you a 17 Rem, so you will know how a real coyote rifle shoots!
--------------------
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
|
posted November 28, 2006 05:29 PM
Tim,
That's so nice of you and an incredibly generous offer.
Let me know when you have the gun and I'll email you my address.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted November 28, 2006 06:50 PM
400-500 Yards? No problem. Invite Quinton to go hunting with you. Take him out there. Bump those coyotes and when they finally get 500 yards out, Q will just whack 'em. Damned impressive thing to see. Even more than once. Only takes him about eight nanoseconds to shoulder and fire. I finally quit being flat out impressed and just wait patiently for a clean miss so I can give him a bad time. LOL Doesn't happen often, but when it does, hold on.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
|
posted November 28, 2006 06:55 PM
Tim,
Email me the tracking number when you get a chance.
Wouldn't want things getting lost in the mail.
--------------------
The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted November 28, 2006 07:07 PM
Thought I'd break this reply into two answers in a blatant attempt to make my final run for PAK-dom. Only eleven posts to go.
Anyway, this query brings to mind a couple instances from my hunt with Q last week. We were in Nebraska around his regular haunts. Hunted last Sunday and Monday.
About lunch time Monday, we were sitting pretty comfortably in one end of a big long canyon. To our left, finger ridges sloped down to the bottom, each emptying into a common drainage that ran the length of the mile-long hole in the ground. I'd put in fifteen or twenty minutes of the kitchen sink with nothing to show and we were fine with just taking a break for a bit. While we visited about coyotes, calling and the world's problems, Q glassed the distant ridgelines. In the middle of a sentence, he stopped then said "We got a coyote"
At the far end of the canyon sat a single coyote in a notch on the first rim below the top of the horizon. Too far to range so Q worked the rangefinder from finger to finger finding one at 800 yards out - about halfway to the coyote and the furthest his finder would reach. Best guess - almost 1600 yards and just shy of a mile.
We tried a few more sounds to bring him in closer before Q suggested I just go ahead and shoot him. LOL Plan B - sit tight and see if curiosity will get the better of him. Bug eyed from looking through the scope for most of an hour, we sat and waited. Finally, he stepped down and moved our way. Slowly. Q softly called out, "1599,...1598,...1597,...". I was impressed that a Husker could count, let alone backwards. But, I digress. LOL
After about forty yards, the coyote found a yucca bush and curled up for a siesta. Q looked at me and asked me what I wanted to do: Move on or one of us go kill him? Too damned far for me to walk ( I was on "vacation") so Q set to explaining the signals I should give him should the coyote decide to vacate his bed and skedaddle while he made the stalk. Bark if he runs off. Howl if he stands and stays. Simple. For the next 20-25 minutes, I watched that yucca through the heat vapors rising from the rocks across the canyon. Finally, Q appeared on the last ridge beneath the coyote's position, crawled up to the edge, positioned his rifle and,... moments later, the coyote stood and rolled around the left edge of the yucca. He stood there for two or three seconds before he lurched, folded over and fell down dead. About four seconds later - no fewer - the ba-boom of Q's Swift echoed off the canyon walls. Glad he had to carry him all the way back. LOL
On the way out from the last stand of the day Monday, and the last stand of the hunt, a coyote appeared at a fenceline to our right. Q slowed and the coyote disappeared out of sight. Off we went in the truck, down the two-track Kansas-style until we cleared a small rise and could see the coyote, dropping gears across a corn stubble field to our right.
Now, I kid you not, 99.9% of guys would have just slapped their hands on the steering wheel and sat there watching that coyote disappear in the distance. Not Q.
Out the door he goes, over the hood of the truck and boom. Whop. Coyote goes down. He went to it, stood with his arms out so I could range him from the truck. 553 yards. I think he let him get that far out to give him a chance. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Q is a humble man, but when someone shoots like that, he deserves a little recognition. Very impressive.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
|
posted November 28, 2006 07:17 PM
Lance,
What's your favorite color?
--------------------
The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted November 28, 2006 08:17 PM
Most days, blue. During FB season,... royal purple with silver trim. Anything's better than that rust bucket orange color y'all use in northern Mexico.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
|
posted November 28, 2006 08:41 PM
Does Rosie O'Donnell, K-State class of '79, share your color preferences?
--------------------
The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
|
posted November 28, 2006 09:20 PM
quote:
Do you quit wasting time on these "educated" dogs and look for more productive properties - or do you take them to be the ultimate challenge and wrack your brain conjuring up some new evil scheme to lure them into range?
Challenge!!!! Man its just gettin good when they get educated.
I made a stand once and we got up after no takers and walked maybe 100yrds and spotted 3 coyotes not 150 yrds away. I set down blew a call and they just walked away. I moved around on them and Ky Yi'ed and they came runnin. Sometimes it just takes luck. Like they say" I would rather be lucky than good any day" Keep tryin difrent tactics and when you do get them in it will be much more rewarding....
steve
--------------------
"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
|
posted November 29, 2006 02:11 AM
Lance, Longhorn fans wear orange on Saturday so they can wear it huntin' on Sunday and pickin' up trash in the median Mon-Fri.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dsmith7136
Knows what it's all about
Member # 732
|
posted November 29, 2006 10:01 AM
Hey Everyone,
Thanks so much for your responses and advice. I really appreciate it. I think I'll give that camo tape another go and see how it fares out this time. I sighted in before I wrapped the rifle, never even thinking about the possible effect of the tape on barrel whip.
As for the call-shy coyotes, you all seem to speak with one voice: Take the best shot they offer even if it's a 500-yarder.
My kid makes those kinds of shots on prairie dogs with a fair amount of regularity, but then he has a tricked-out, finely-tuned .22-250 with a big-ass scope on it. My little .223 is pretty much your factory-grade stock sporter with a medium power variable on it. It might be capable of 500 yard coyotes but I, most definitely, am not - not yet anyway. Guess I'd better start practicing, eh?
Thanks again for your help.
Best,
Dennis
--------------------
Beware the man who shoots just one gun...
Posts: 44 | From: Loveland, CO | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted November 29, 2006 01:40 PM
Dennis,
I guess I never really answered your question, but I don't take 500 yards shots. Mainly because I can't make 500 yard shots. I'll leave that to the pros and hot dogs. And I definitely wouldn't want to take a shot that long with a .223.
I've never hunted around Loveland but in my country where we have ready access to most places, here's what I would do. Most coyotes I've seen like that have been called to and won't generally come across an open area or over any significant distance, of which 500 yards is just that. Instead, as you describe, they tend to look, turn their noses up and move on as if intent to get where they're going. I try to make a WAG as to where that someplace might be and hotfoot it there ahead of them to set up in wait.
Once they get there, and I think they're in close, I offer them something unusual - rodent distress for example. If they can stick to cover to make a short approach, they often will if for no other reason than that the circumstance doesn't fit the profile for the prevoius experiences they've had with hunters. Most times, I can at least get them to come to the cover's edge and offer up a shot. Sometimes not, but when they do, at least a marginal close range shot is better than a marginal long range hail Mary. The story I related above of Q and I in the canyon illustrates the occasional feasability of going to the coyote when he won't come to you, and it can be done with some planning ahead.
Having siad that, they sometimes won't play along. Just the other day, my partner and I were walking out from a blank stand and I spotted a coyote about 200 yards ahead of us sneaking thru knee-high milo stubble to get back to the creek we just came from. We immediately hit the ground and tried to squeak him up to a fenceline that lay between us. We could see both ways out to the left and to the right, but he didn't appear. We moved to the fence and looked over the stubble field and he was gone. Into thin air. He snuck in right past my truck (within twenty feet of it) and cut across the stubble field rather than use the road where he normally walked as demonstrated by the amount of scat on it. He knew what we were and what we were up to when I squeaked and he slinked away undetected despite the fact that we had him sighted. Go figure.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dsmith7136
Knows what it's all about
Member # 732
|
posted November 29, 2006 06:44 PM
Thanks again Lance,
That's good info. We really haven't had to deal with too many call-shy coyotes in the past, but then for the past three years we've been fortunate to have access to some big ranches that don't get hit very hard by local callers. We wanted to give those places a rest - which is how we came to hunt that public land and run into those spooky coyotes.
Your advice makes perfect sense, and we almost did exactly as you suggested on that last hunt: We got ahead of them and set up an ambush, but in our fever to bring them in closer we used a standard rabbit distress instead of something a little less obvious.
Your suggestions here are nicely consistent with your "Motivations" piece in the last issue of Predator Hunting, and we'll certainly keep them in mind. Thanks again for your help.
Dennis
--------------------
Beware the man who shoots just one gun...
Posts: 44 | From: Loveland, CO | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doug
Knows what it's all about
Member # 31
|
posted November 30, 2006 04:38 PM
If you want to bring them in closer in big open country, get a decoy dog........or even better invite someone along who has decoy dogs.
--------------------
My mountain cur thinks I'm God.
Posts: 69 | From: Northern Colorado | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted December 01, 2006 08:58 AM
Dsmith7136,
I realize that camo on calling rifles don't hurt anything, and might even help a little bit now and then. I just don't bother with it. While I am sitting in the shade like I should be, my rifle just looks like a stick to a coyote anyhoo. Call shy coyotes? I am always searching for new tricks to pull on those buggers. Best bet however, is to travel in to really good coyote country.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dsmith7136
Knows what it's all about
Member # 732
|
posted December 01, 2006 10:51 AM
Good advice Doug, but dogs are out of the question for me. Still, they (Mt. Curs, coyote dogs, etc.)are fascinating as hell.
Rich - you're probably right. My kid says I'm making a big deal over nuthin' fretting about my shiny rifle. It's a Ruger 77; the stock has a soft satin finish and isn't a concern, but that barrel is polished to the max and shines like a monstrous emergency signal mirror. It probably bothers me more than the coyotes, though.
It's always been a matter of curiosity to me why gun makers put such ridiculously lavish finishes on hunting rifles.
I set up in the shade when I can, but sometimes that's just not possible. I'm thinking maybe I could get the barrel parkerized or glass-beaded or some such to kill that damn shine.
As for hunting "better" coyote country, the boys and I are headed out tomorrow to do exactly that.
Thanks for your help.
DS
--------------------
Beware the man who shoots just one gun...
Posts: 44 | From: Loveland, CO | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
