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Author
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Topic: King of the coyote
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted July 01, 2004 08:27 PM
I thought ya'll would enjoy this article,( King of the Coyote )especially Rich. It makes me wonder about these scientist and researchers. In the article they seem to thick this is a rare and isolated occurance. I have hunted and killed coyotes in East Texas for almost thirty years(I live just 100 miles East of Dallas). Our coyotes here have always outweighed the coyotes in West Texas by a considerable margin. They are, and have always been just as described in this article, or at least as long as I've hunted them. I kill coyotes here that rutinely weigh in the mid forties. I have also killed Quite a few that I would say weighed over 50. My new video comes out in a few day's and if ya'll see it you will see a few of these coyotes. One of the coyotes on the video is well over 50.
Here is a picture of one from the video that weighed 46#'s.
This picture is at the moment the 60 grn V-Max hits him. I shot him a little far back but it did him in quick.
Let me know your opinions
Byron ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ July 01, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 01, 2004 10:33 PM
I don't really have an opinion, Byron. It's just hard for me to relate to a 46 pound coyote. Mainly because I know I've never seen one. I mean, while hunting, of course. I'm not doubting that people shoot, and weigh coyotes that go 46 pounds, but it doesn't happen around here.
You know, I heard that they really can't tell the difference between a Grizzly Bear and a Brown Bear. It's just a matter of size, and how close the bear is to the coast. So, you have interior grizzlies that weigh 800 pounds, and coastal brown bears that might go 1500. Who knows why?
Anyway, western coyotes don't generally attain that size, but then again, Texas is part of the west, huh? Still, the one's I killed in (west) Texas weren't quite that big.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted July 02, 2004 04:42 AM
That's a good comparison Leonard. we must have "Kodiak Coyotes" here in East Texas. I hunt quite a bit out in West Texas, in fact about 50% of my time during the cooler months is spent in West Texas. I can certainly tell the difference in the coyotes once I get past the Dallas Ft.Worth area. One theory that I've heard about our East Texas coyotes is they are a hybrid of the Red Wolf. I have also heard of people saying they have seen dogs with coyotes. I find this hard to believe. Not impossible, but hard to believe. I have been in the woods most of my life and certainly more than any one else I know of around here. My line of work has had me outside everyday it wasn't raining for as long as I could work. I would have certainly seen a dog and coyote running together at least once if it happens at all. I haven't. These coyotes seem to be more aggresive as well. I see and hear of more livestock damage here, and have witnesed them running deer lots of times. A good friend of mine shot one of a pair that had almost finished killing a full grown doe deer. It could be that their size allows them to be more aggresive. Or their aggresiveness has lead them to evolve into a larger breed. Who know's.
Byron
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 02, 2004 08:10 AM
"The Texas King Coyote was captured recently and placed on public display. Strong men faint dead away at the sight of the fearsome beast."
[ July 02, 2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 02, 2004 11:15 AM
Byron,
Obviously, your scales are not calibrated correctly, and you have not been seeing and shooting them for years. The atricle clearly states they are new to the area. When has an expert been wrong, they don't get all that edamucation, just to make incorrect statements and findings. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) LOL
How many times do you here that a particular animal was seen in an area, and the state 'experts" say no way possible could that animal be there, then miraculously one is hit by a care, or shot by a hunter. More times than not, their story then leans toward a "pet" that must have gotten away, etc.
We have had many sightings of cougars here in NH, but the state denies it to the last.
Seems as though hunters are always years ahead in really being able to trace or identify some oddity, new species,variant or rehabitation by one thought to no longer be inhabiting the area.
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 02, 2004 11:18 AM
Actually Texas is such a big state that it is home to at least four sub-species of coyote. The smallest of the nineteen sub-species is canis latrans microdon and is located in south Texas and Mexico. canis latrans mearnsi is found from California to west Texas. canis latrans texensis is found in much of the state. The big boys are probably canis latrans frustror. Around the turn of the century a biologist named Bailey classified this coyote as a species of wolf different from canis rufus, your red wolf. No wonder there is so much confusion about the taxonomy of the coyote species. The taxonomists are even confused. It's known that coyotes and red wolves cross-bred fairly often as the wolf became more rare. It apparently happened frequently in Arkansas in those melting pot areas around the Tyson operations before state and federal laws made them clean their practices up.
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted July 02, 2004 07:20 PM
I am not up to speed on all the submutts in Texaslandia, but the ones out here known as canis latrans stupidicous have reached upwards to the 40-41 pound mark but that is extrememly rare. I'd say typical for AZ is 25-28 pounds for full grown, healthy dog.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted July 02, 2004 08:52 PM
quote:
It's known that coyotes and red wolves crossbred fairly often as the wolf became more rare. It apparently happened frequently in Arkansas
Cross breading in Arkansas eh? Ya don't say. LOL Must be something in the water down that way. Sounds like a great place to hunt. With all the inbreeding and crossbreeding going on down there it should be pretty easy calling. Just plug in the retarded coywolf in heat tape and have at them.
BTW are the taxonomists from Arkansas too?
Good hunting.
Q,
[ July 02, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Q-Wagoner ]
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 02, 2004 10:42 PM
I had a fella from Ontario Canada come out to hunt with me six or eight years ago. During our correspondence he casually mentioned he used a .270 and not a 22 centerfire, because the coyotes in his area were in the 50 pound class. I of course, pointed out that he was as full of shit as a christmas goose, and would make a better fisherman than a hunter:)
When he arrived he had a gorgeous hide he had home tanned that I swear, looked like a wolf! Thick, luxurious fur, and nearly twice as long as any coyote hide I had around the place. He said this particular coyote weighed 47 pounds.
In Arizona, or any other western state Ive hunted, a 40 pounder is good for braggin rights, but this 47 pound coyote is the absolute biggest Ive handled personally, and had the weight confirmed. Ive taken swags at ones we've killed that you would swear tip over 40, but scales don't exaggerate, 38 is the largest specimen Ive personally seen here in the southwest.
Ive seen coyotes from Arizona to Florida, and they all pretty much look the same as whats running around here. Ive not hunted or seen any coyotes from the northeast or Canada, other than the one my partner brought from Ontario....which indeed weighed nearly 50 pounds.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted July 03, 2004 06:21 AM
Most here in Minnesota will go just over 30 lbs. My largest until this winter was at 44 pounds shot in SW Minnesota. This winter I was lucky enough to kill a 52 pound beast that was smokey grey in color. I had a shoulder mount done on him. He's a great speciman.
I'm not too up on how to post pics but if anyone would like to post it here, I can email it to them.
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 03, 2004 07:10 AM
Randy, send it over to me I'll be happy to post it for you.
Q, lol, through the 50s and 60s Tyson's chicken operations raised millions of chickens and dumped their dead and slaughter refuse in the hollows(pre govt regulation) which over the years attracted large aggregations of coyotes, feral dogs and red wolves. Since normal social structures broke down , cross-breeding occurred. This then attracted research biologists and a number of studies were conducted, most notably Gipson and Quinn who extensively documented the hybridization of red wolves and coyotes.
Q, this information is not actually concealed in books, it is available to anyone willing to crack a cover.lol
I have, still on stretchers, the last coyote I shot in Az. before moving to Mo. and the first coyote I shot in Mo. Size and coloration are identical. They look like they are from the same litter. I have video of a coyote I took in south central Az. A large grey male. I didn't weigh him but he is strung from a palo verde next to a normal red yellow grey coyote and it is easily twice the normal coyotes size. We occasionally see the larger grey coyotes in Az.
DOD's NH coyotes are an entirely different animal. I'm really excited about filming a hunt with him in Dec. Now I need to find someone in Maine who will tape a hunt with me. Those two states comprise a "pocket" that contains a distinctly different animal from the other New England coyotes.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 03, 2004 10:42 AM
I've handled a lot of coyotes in various parts of the west. It's interesting that the largest and heaviest coyote I ever seen, while I didn't kill it, I dragged it back to the truck, and knew then, that it was heavy. It weighed 38 and change. In 36 years, I have never taken a bigger one, me or a partner. Interesting, Rich speaks of pockets. That particular hunt, we ran into a "pocket" of large animals, killed seven coyotes, the smallest weighed 31 pounds, and that's not a small animal, in my view.
Thinking about what Vic had to say on that Canadian coyote. I was in the fur shed of a buyer once, and he had them all sorted, and bundled, size and color. I had asked why I wasn't getting top money, and he proceeded to show me why. Some of those hides looked like they had been peeled from wolves rather than the coyotes I was so proud of.
Shut me up, he was fair. All well and good, but to this day, I have yet to see those routine 40/50 pounders that grow other places. Surprisingly, I don't have a coyote in my trophy room, but I'd find room, if I ever managed to get one of those mythical monsters!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 03, 2004 12:36 PM
Interesting, a lot of you folks sound like the state pros and biologists, nope can't be that because......., nope, they don't get that big........
Shouldn't use that caliber, too damn small, or too damn big. Lots of animals were taken with nothing more than a sharp stick or a stick with a piece of sharp stone on the end, or a sharp stick propelled by another stick with a taught string (many animals still are in fact), this all did happen however before they knew the right caliber to use and that what they were using wouldn't work (cavemen were pretty stuburn must be).
Whitetailed Deer in most parts don't get all that big, BUT, there are places where they get to over 300 lbs. Just because I haven't hunted them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Too bad so many are so closed minded.
DOD
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 03, 2004 01:01 PM
Whoa David, you've misenterpreted our posts. No one has doubted the stated weights of your or Byron's coyotes. We have stated the weights of the western coyotes with which we have experience and they do not approach the the huge awe-inspiring coyotes from the east. Some of us are prone to tweak each other with a little humor now and again, but it is mostly done in fun. Relax, you're among friends.
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted July 03, 2004 01:36 PM
I know good and well that some coyotes have been recorded with Wolf DNA in them and I know that many in the north east grow to be exceptionally large specimens. Vic if you ever see Tom Teskey have him show you the coyote that I sent him. He said that it dwarfed anything that he has ever seen. Gary S. formerly of NY trapped a coyote that went 7foot 6inches skinned from nose to tale. I have a picture of him holding up the hide. He is also the one that owned the dog “Sam” that was humping the dead coyote that you post every once in a while. I think that while living in NY he checked in more coyotes than anyone in the state most seasons. From what I understand, northern NY has the highest population of coyotes than anywhere else in the state. G.S. operated out of the Finger Lakes region if I remember right so that should tell you something about his ability. He would be a good guy to get a hold of for your eastern version. If not he would at least be able to tell you about the who’s who in NY and other parts of the east.
You also need to contact Bob Noonan of Caanan Maine. He has been in the game of trapping and calling a long long time and would know anyone who is anybody in the world of calling up in that country. He is a field editor for the Trapper & Predator Caller Magazine. Chances are if he hasn’t heard of them then they aren’t worth hearing about so he would be a good guy to talk to.
Guys like Gary and Bob will help you sort out the PC professionals from the real deal.
Relax DOD you are among friends here. We rib each other all the time.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 03, 2004 01:55 PM
Yeah, you're taking us wrong, DOD. No question about it. Besides, I don't allow disrespect and they all know that, but we do manage to roast somebody, from time to time; all in good fun. But, that's not the case here, we believe you.
I'm just amazed at the size that coyotes can attain, in other parts of the country. Most of the gentlemen contributing within this thread have probably killed thousands of coyotes, so it is understandable when they are telling us that they haven't had any personal experience with some of those whoppers. It only adds to the remarkable accounts and evidence.
Keep reading, you'll get it. These are some of the most experienced predator hunters in the entire country, certainly not a bunch of snobs, or self appointed "experts".
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 03, 2004 02:13 PM
Must be I misinterpreted the post. I can take ribbing along with the next guy, but it seemed (incorrectly I guess) that people were of the mindset that unless they had seen it themselves it doesn't exist, be it a large coyote or a toothed chicken.
Q-Wagoner
Who is the person GS that you refer to? Where in the Finger Lakes area was he from. I am originally from there also. I plan on doing some coyote hunting there this fall and help out some old friends (farmers) with their problem.
The coyotes up here have been tested by the University of New Hampshire and definately have wolf DNA. There are the smaller variety as well. There is a person who post on another board that lives in Massachusetts that I believe has distinctive areas where he finds one variety or the other. The photos are very dramatic in showing the difference.
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 03, 2004 02:14 PM
As to the success of poking living things with sharp sticks; Im reminded of the statistic regarding archery elk success in Arizona. Something on the order one bull recovered for every 14 or 15 reportedly arrowed?, and thats suspect, how many hunters are to ashamed to answer the survey honestly and claim none?
Ive never disclaimed the fact some coyotes, in some places, don't hit the magical 50 pounds....Ive just never seen one:) The one from Canada is the absolute largest specimen Ive seen that was verified on scales, then was able to admire with my own eyes. No coyote in Arizona or any other western state that Ive examined, equals that big northern one I have. The length of fur, thickness of fur, and length/size is way out of porportion to our western coyotes.
Ive yet to see a big coyote on the 'net displayed hanging from a scale, so I can see the purported weight, rather than just hear a story of what a guy "figgered" it weighed:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 03, 2004 02:46 PM
DOD
http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/gary.htm
Dennis
Btw: Around here we pick up an ocassional large one, but I've never weighed one. LOL
[ July 03, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted July 03, 2004 03:09 PM
Az-Hunter. I have several we weighed on video and I can get the pics from the video later. I posted a picture of one we shot back in the winter that weighed 50#'s. In the picture he is hanging on the scales. I believe I posted it here, you can do search. They are not certified scales but I'm sure they are pretty close. Rich will have a copy of my new video as soon as they come out ina few days. On the video there is some footage of one of the biggest coyotes I've ever killed. I didn't weigh this particular coyote because I didn't have scales back then, but I estimate his weight to be well over 50#'s, and I've weighed a lot of coyotes in the last year. I will say this again and you can take it for what its worth. I kill coyotes in East Texas that will rutinely weigh in the mid 40's and on occasion weigh as much as 50#'s or more weighed not guessed at.
Here is a post mortum picture of the previous coyote hanging on scales that read 46#'s.
As far as the bow hunting goes. I'm a bowhunter and love the sport. I can proudly say I have killed lots of coyotes, bobcats, deer, and couple elk and have only lost one animal. Most of them went no further than they would have if shot with a rifle.There are slob hunters in every segment of hunting, but most of the bow hunters I know are very dedicated to the sport and are very diciplined. I wonder how many gut shot elk get away during rifle season .
Good Hunting
Byron
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted July 03, 2004 03:38 PM
Rich,
Those pics are on their way.
Thanks
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 03, 2004 06:13 PM
Greenside,
That is extremely strange. He was born and raised in Upstate New York and I was also. The company he works for now, Wildlife Technologies is about 8 miles away from my current home in New Hampshire. Very weird.
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 03, 2004 06:15 PM
Randt's pics
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted July 03, 2004 06:20 PM
His name is Gary Strader DOD. Greensides link should get you all knowed up about the guy. Never met or talked to him personally but I know he was a student of O’Gorman so he probably has his $hit together. Have you ever heard of Craig O’Gorman?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 04, 2004 04:56 AM
Q-Wagoner
No I have never heard of him. Gary is a shade older than I am. The Finger Lakes area of New York is a large area. I used to trap a lot as a youngster and I don't remember ever seeing a quantity of pelts at a fur buyers location like any of those shown. Looks like I have some more reading to do.
DOD
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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