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Author
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Topic: Howling intel on the trapline
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 20, 2006 02:33 PM
On Aug 5, I'll be giving a demo on calling at the NTA convention here in Kansas. My main topic will be the coon calling method we used this past year since I've had several people ask me to offer something "different" than that which will be offered by Steve Nordstrom and Randy Anderson, the other two calling demos on the schedule.
During the Q&A part of the presentation, I'll no doubt be asked a few questions about my philosophy on howling, and I plan to offer a brief demo on the sound difference between open reed howlers and the Power Howler. I know that at some point, as is often the case, I'll entertain a question about this idea that coyotes should be pursued in terms of their packs and territories for better results, versus operating under the consensus that coyotes are randomly distributed across the countryside, and how these guys - mostly trappers - can use howling and calling as a means of determining the approximate boundaries and more productive areas of the territories and home ranges versus the "dead spaces" between.
Has anyone ever had this question put to them, and if so, what do you think is the best reply? What part of your calling experience do you guys that trap, too, use in the day to day setup of your traplines?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted July 20, 2006 03:11 PM
I use the fringes of those territories very differently between my trapping and calling endevours. The secret I've found that really defines the productivity is- traps are patient.
PS; The NTA is corrupt!
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 20, 2006 03:39 PM
Jason,
i've spent the past week researching that assertion over at CRU and I think you're right. The general meeting is right after my demo. I'm bringing popcorn and a flak jacket. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 20, 2006 04:00 PM
Sounds like more of Wiley E's definition of prostitution! You want to gather intel here and disperse it there, and then in a week or so we will see someone quoting it as their idea on Predator Masters. What if we feed you poor info, just to see how far it goes?
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted July 20, 2006 04:08 PM
Your wife is right Cal, you are a sadistic SOB. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 20, 2006 04:25 PM
Here's a howling tip you can share. Turn your howler upside down so that the reed is against your tongue.
It makes for a more seductive howl and brings the young males in on the run!
I used to call at night around the areas that I trapped. I figured the fox and coyotes that I didn't see, might slip in behind me and investigate, and smell something good along the way.
I can't prove to you if it really improved my trapping, but it didn't hurt it any.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted July 20, 2006 07:51 PM
Maybe I don't understand the question, but it is just the opposite for me. Trapping coyotes teaches me more about the animal which I then use to make myself a better caller.
Randy
Posts: 547 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 20, 2006 08:11 PM
Randy,
I gave a demo last year and we talked about howling. I tried to impress upon those in attendance that they needed to quit thinking of coyotes as randomly and evenly distributed across the countryside, and that, rather, they held defended territories and larger homeranges. My experience has been to pay special attention not only to where I get responses (and where I don't), but how those coyotes that respond carry themselves on the way in. My point was that a transient in defended territory won't usually come balls to the wall to howls whereas resident coyotes in my area tend to relocate downwind and gather into a group of sufficient size (2 or more) that they feel comfortable making the approach. The guy that asked me a question was obviously a trapper with no real experience calling, and he wanted to know if that concept held true for trapping coyotes, too.
My answer to him was short - coyotes travel where they live and they live in their homeranges, and subsets thereof called territories. There are areas that are not claimed by coyotes as being either. If you're after the greatest number of coyotes, it does you no good to try and trap them where you know it would be unlikely for them to be.
My inquiry here was simply to generate some discussion and maybe provoke some thought. It's summer. Things are hot and boring. Apparantly, some of us are intolerant as hell.
Tim,
That's an interesting idea. There's always one or two you don't see, and I bet you've cuffed a couple that pulled off their response and stumbled upon your set.
Cal,
I've been hunting coyotyes in some capacity for 37 of my 41 years. Be glad to entertain any of that false information and be equally as willing to bet that my bullshit alarm would be ringing. I know the difference. But, hey, thanks anyway.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 20, 2006 08:42 PM
Lets see if i got this right. There are coyote tracks everywhere and scat, so there must be coyotes here. Yep and i drive down the road a few miles and no tracks , no scat, Hmmm must not be any here. I thought everyone new that especialy trappers. I think the best way to learn from coyotes is by following there tracks in the winter or follow some cow trails. I think they mark there territory with urine and scat.
[ July 20, 2006, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5168 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted July 20, 2006 09:21 PM
Tracks tell you where a coyote was, not where he is going to be.
Randy
Posts: 547 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 20, 2006 09:51 PM
Ha Ha Randy, but they will point you in the right direction to look.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5168 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted July 20, 2006 10:06 PM
Shit lies nowhere but on the ground.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 21, 2006 06:06 AM
The best thing to do if you want to learn more about coyote trapping, is to make friends with a couple of old trappers who skin more than 100 coyotes every single year. I learned a lot from a couple of those old boys who were trapping around 200 coyotes per year.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 21, 2006 07:28 AM
quote:
Shit lies nowhere but on the ground.
Actually, that isn't accurate.
Coyotes will back into sage and make a deposit, for the same reason that they ,and fox, will deposit on rocks and other prominant places. Elevated scat is more easily detected. I found were a coyote deposited one on the lower strand of a barbwire fence. Nice balancing act.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted July 21, 2006 07:40 AM
I saw some pics of that, may have been from you Rich. Do you think they do that on markers? Or simply to get the scent elevated to travel better?
Smart little bastards.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted July 21, 2006 08:31 AM
Shit lies nowhere but where gravity takes it.
You guys are so literal sometimes! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 21, 2006 08:42 AM
Lance,
Do you think that would be an application for a fur man or ADC? Seems to me that by the time fur season opens the suffle would be in full swing and the coyote would indeed be dispersed thoughout the area.
Wouldn't it make more sense for a fur trapper to use howling to find area's of high densities and key on the counties or country that appear to have the highest numbers. That would probably be the quickest way to come up with numbers.
You might even mention that with the abundence of people howling, that in some area's it getting harder to get vocal responses?
Dennis
BTW: A while back, I wasn't shooting the messenger, just the message
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 21, 2006 10:45 AM
Dennis,
That's pretty much along the loines of my thougts, too, and what I think he was eluding to. Just wanted some assurances.
And I don't scar that easily. Bullet holes heal.
Jason,
LOL, that would make a great sig line. And BTW, my involvement with NTA in a couple weeks has nothing to do with their politics. I understand and appreciate all that is and has been going on there. It's a real shame. My agreeing to go there was to offer something to the good people that comprise that august organization and I look forward to meeting and making/ reaffirming friendships with friends, old and new alike. I've always enjoyed going to those conventions.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted July 21, 2006 11:18 AM
I'm with you Lance... I played the game when they came to Indiana last August. I had plans of going to Kansas for quite a while but things just got too disgusting for me to drop the $10 gate fee. I don't miss the opportunity to help the Fur Takers so we'll surely meet at one of thier conventions soon.
I have worked with some of the political players involved and I feel my stance speaks for itself. I hold nothing against the guys still walking the fray with our modern day NTA... I just hope folks eventually see the light and help us support good strong representation for trappers and fur hunters in this country.
Have fun and take some pictures for us... I like picking folks out in the crowd. If you see a guy wearing cutoff bluejeans and knee high pig boots PLEASE get a photo- he'll certainly be there and it'd make good conversation for Steve Craig & Tim Behle.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 21, 2006 11:25 AM
Lance,
If you run into Pigboots, ( Mike Baines ) be sure to stop and ask him a question or two. You may not have to stop him, as you are doing a demo, you have a good chance of ending up with him standing beside you about half way though it. Hal Sullavan was fit to kill him at an Indiana convention a few years back.
He will be easy to recognise, as he carries several bags, takes pictures of everything and is writting in his notebook constantly.
You can tell him that I said "Hello" but if you give him my email address or phone number, I will get even!
[ July 21, 2006, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 21, 2006 01:43 PM
Cdog, I wasn't really directing the poor info at you, but just as a joke as to how long it would take for someone else on PM to take credit for it. But since we're on that subject, howling for trapping location is covered somewhat in depth on one of John Graham's videos that has been out for a few years, so it's not a new or novel idea. He will also be at Hutchinson, so if you want more info maybe ask him.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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InjunJoe
unknown comic
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posted July 21, 2006 02:06 PM
I don't know Jack about trapping, but I find calling the in between places pretty productive.
You get coyotes from both directions.
Thank goodness coyotes use boundry lines like streams, roads, fences making it easier to figure out.
Do trappers take off cross country on foot for remote areas these days? Even in the Northern Territories, from what I've read, snowshoes are used only to get from the snowmobile to the trapset. Please help educate a good looking ****** .
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 21, 2006 02:35 PM
Joe,
I don't know. It was 109 here yesterday and we haven't had but about one decent snow a year for the past decade. And to us, a "decent snow" is anything that covers all the grass on the front lawn.
Cal,
I don't have a problem telling someone up front that I can't answer their question based upon my personal experience. And personally, I haven't trapped much since I focused my efforts on calling and howling all the time. If such a question arises, I'll be more than happy to give John a plug and refer them to him. The idea is to help those folks get better at what they want to do and if that means sending them to someone else for the information they need, that's the best route to go.
Jason,
In my reading, I pretty much filled in the blanks on issues you had eluded to in our earlier correspondence. It's been my experience that every group has some of that to some extent, but if you police yourselves well enough, it can be minimized. I never did like the look of Sollman (sp?) when he first ran for office. Didn't seem to me to be the kind of guy with too many layers of mud on his hipboots.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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