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Author
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Topic: Mouth calls Versus E callers
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted August 11, 2008 02:47 PM
What is your main preferance in calling and why?
I can see advantages to both, but I prefer my e-caller over mouth calls "most" of the time due to the ability to "setup" a realistic calling sequance and also to dictait how those coyotes approach and where: with the callers remote ability,lay of the land and wind.
What say you.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 11, 2008 03:51 PM
quote:
I can see advantages to both, but I prefer my e-caller over mouth calls "most" of the time due to the ability to "setup" a realistic calling sequance ..........
C whacker, what do you consider to be a "realistic" calling sequence and why.
(relax ![[Smile]](smile.gif) , I'm not bushwacking you.)
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 11, 2008 04:57 PM
I belive that it was JH (credit where credit is due) who stated some time ago that; "......you will call just as many coyotes with a mouthcall as an e-caller, but you'll kill more with an e-caller."
I don't think that the difference would be a lot, and even less with one hunter calling & one hunter as the main shooter but I do agree with the concept.
Personally, I use both.....sometimes both at once.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 11, 2008 05:43 PM
I definitely prefer mouthcalls. The e-caller comes in handy if you remember to shoot or you don't place it too far away. Too far away can be 50 ft as I have discovered.
I have an idea of what CWhacker means by realistic calling sequence but I'll let him answer.
Whatever his answer is I plan on totally disagreeing with him and arguing for no reason. In the name of science. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted August 11, 2008 05:46 PM
At times I like to setup the scene like a family group hunting up a fawn deer and then fighting over food, I may add in some crow calls or magpie sounds to really make it sound like an authentic chase and kill scene. Can one do this on mouth calls? Sure some can but less movement and can change the location of this away from me and use that to my advantage some better with the e-caller.
I still use mouth calls and alot of times I will start with a howl on either and answer it with the opposite, but times when I want to make a chase/kill scene with the most realism that is where the e-caller works with less effort for me. A great setup for younger coyotes fresh on the scene or a pair late winter trying to keep intruders out of the area and working up their food source.
I'm sure in many hunted areas with the boom of e callers about that the mouth calls will come full circle, but I still like to be able to move that sound away from my spot and help dictait how those coyotes will approach my stand area.
I also feel alot more secure when trying (not yet succesful) of calling up a MT Lion to have that sound 30-40 yards away from me rather than me being the prey due to the heavier cover we hunt for them.
Many times a few howls,pup sounds and the rabbitt blues are all the realism we need and that can be done real effective with mouth calls. Lighter and less to pack, but I like being able to dictait when the wind isn't right with the remote aspect of still calling some stands and getting those coyotes to approach better where they don't know I'm there with the aid of an E caller.
I'll never give up using mouth calls and use them at 50% of my stands in some form or fashion but I rely heavy on my e caller and a great advancement into calling for sure.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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5shots
Knows what it's all about
Member # 427
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posted August 11, 2008 07:09 PM
I prefer the e-caller becaus I'm an amature and by the time I get to the stand I don't have enough wind left to do more than a ten second stand on a mouth call.
Posts: 28 | From: glendive,mt | Registered: Oct 2004
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5shots
Knows what it's all about
Member # 427
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posted August 11, 2008 07:12 PM
Future Rock Star? Well atleast I'm not a cheerleader. just kidding don't punish me Leonard.
Posts: 28 | From: glendive,mt | Registered: Oct 2004
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted August 11, 2008 07:14 PM
Well, as Rich higgins gives me confidence, I am gonna post like I know sumthin, however in my best years I only get 15-20 coyotes. I hunt alone alot, I like the ecaller so that "if I set up right" I have a better chance of getting away with some movement, as the yote closes. I aint an expert, lots of times I like to do what I call "wake em up" with a howl or loud call for a few seconds but I call quiet more often, then go to medium quiet to real quiet, I keep a tiny coaxer sound on a preset, I lip squeak alot and puppy whimper alot on an open reed.
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted August 11, 2008 07:41 PM
I love it when all I have to do is punch a button and pull the trigger but my luck with e-callers hasn't been so good. They've all called plenty of coyotes when they work but they don't always work.
With handcalls I can carry plenty of backups and I seem to call in just as many if not more critters. And I'm lazy so I like to carry as little weight as possible.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 11, 2008 07:42 PM
Thanks for the answers, I appreciate them all. But I'm still going to laugh when Smithers goes medieval scientific on you anyway.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 11, 2008 07:50 PM
FWIW, in alot of the areas I hunt, the e caller makes it much easier to make the coyote killable. As in bringing him down a fencerow, where the caller is placed, while I am off to one side where I wont be detected. If that makes any sense.
However, after spending some time with Higgins, I havent used my e caller. I am having too much fun wiht mouth calls. Not as easy to place a coyote sometimes, but still a hoot. And thats what its all about, for me anyhow.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted August 11, 2008 07:50 PM
Hey 5Shots,
There's nothing wrong with being a Cheerleader ( Have you seen my long legs? ) And if I can talk Leonard into letting me modify sig lines, I can guarantee board participation will skyrocket, as some folks will be afraid to leave their computer, for fear of what it may be changed to.....
I hunt 50/50 when by myself, but if I'm calling for someone else to shoot, I prefer a mouth call, as it lets me change up depending on the situation.
When using an e-caller, it's rare for me to switch sounds on a stand. I play one good sound, if I don't get a response in 10-15 minutes, I move to a new location.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 11, 2008 08:05 PM
Many moons ago, when I first started calling, and for many moons henceforth, I was a loner when it came to calling. Mainly because very few people around here did any calling, and because I just preferred to be alone when hunting. I've always been a traditionalist when it came to calls of choice and preferred the wind driven models over the electronics.
In recent years, I've been fortunate enough to have found a guy that shoots well enough and does what I've asked him (most of the time) and we have developed a pretty good system of calling between the two of us where we exploit the terrain and wind by me calling and him setting up in a sniper position to deal with any coyotes that seem intent on getting around me to the downwind side.
With the modern wireless, remote controlled e-callers, I can just as easily pull off a stand by positioning the caller in such a way as to entice the coyote to circle, and positioning myself in that ever popular sniper position where my wind won't be a factor, if I set up properly.
Another advantage I've found to the caller is twofold. First, crows are a blessing, and if I want or feel the need for a long-range decoy of sorts, that a coyote can both see and hear from a sizable distance, I just switch the caller over to crow sounds for as long as it takes to bring them on in. In this country, within minutes, those rat bastards will be hovering all over you. I've seen coyotes coming in to the call with their heads up watching the birds.
Also, I've had some luck combining the e-caller and mouthcalls by running a good jackrabbit distress then calling over it with a mouthcall that sounds quite a bit different. Doesn't work all the time but when you need to really get their attention and do something different, it's worth trying in the late season.
Whether one gets me more than the other, I don't know. Both types of calls are just tools and there are few stands when I don't have a lanyard full of tube calls around my neck along with an M-1 in my pocket.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 12, 2008 05:42 AM
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"I belive that it was JH (credit where credit is due) who stated some time ago that; "......you will call just as many coyotes with a mouthcall as an e-caller, but you'll kill more with an e-caller."
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Did John-Henry say that? I have been saying the same thing for many moons. I love hand calls, and believe I can call at least as many predators with the air driven models as I could with any E caller. The advantage of an E caller for me, comes in to play when calling the thicker cover. Coyotes are famous for circling down-wind of the screams. When using hand calls, this means that the coyote just came in down-wind of ME. He catches my scent and leaves without my even knowing that I called anything. Why? Because being a coyote, he slipped down-wind under cover of the brush. A remote controlled E caller placed upwind of the honey hole while I sit cross-wind, is my main method of killing more coyotes that I probably would not have even seen otherwise. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 12, 2008 12:37 PM
My point, too, Rich. Good addendum. And for the new guys that are still having trouble determining just what point we're trying to make on that, here is the clarification.
When hunting by yourself, coyotes will circle in cover and often get your wind and be gone without ever exposing themselves. By using an e-caller, you can place the caller in a location that forces a circling coyote to expose itself for the shot as it circles. Your task is to then position yourself in good cover that affords you a commanding view of that opening where the coyote is likely to appear, but at the same time, NOT pass downwind of you. I usually try to put 50-100 yards between myself and the caller, sitting downwind of the caller while, at the same time, leaving a bit of approach cover between me and the caller. By doing this, coyotes will circle downwind, pass between the caller and me, and often be on my side of the cover, using it for concealment because they perceive any possible threat to be coming from the area of the caller itself and do not realize that they're standing or passing right in front of me.
A lot of guys think e-callers are cost prohibitive. When you see how well this strategy works, and how much more fur you can put up by using the caller and the method, you quickly realize how fast an e-caller can pay for itself.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted August 12, 2008 01:17 PM
For me it depends on the area i hunt and what the weather is like. If an area is hit hard by other callers then i prefer to use the WT/B.C.B to bring them in. and if the wind is blowing..
And there are some days when i have to just chase them out of the corn. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 12, 2008 05:53 PM
quote:
At times I like to setup the scene like a family group hunting up a fawn deer and then fighting over food, I may add in some crow calls or magpie sounds to really make it sound like an authentic chase and kill scene. Can one do this on mouth calls? Sure some can but less movement and can change the location of this away from me and use that to my advantage some better with the e-caller.
Wrong... all wrong!
90% of the time (proven fact!) you will be scaring more coyotes than you are drawing in with this scenario. Loners don't want to mess with a scene like that and loners are who you are calling to! In highly pressured areas where movement is mainly at night, this tactic would be about as helpful as a .17 Rem on a stand. Do you know the difference between a feeding crow call and a gathering crow call? Neither does a coyote and they hear crows all of the time.
quote:
FWIW, in alot of the areas I hunt, the e caller makes it much easier to make the coyote killable. As in bringing him down a fencerow, where the caller is placed, while I am off to one side where I wont be detected. If that makes any sense.
What if they come from behind you? Gotcha!
quote:
With the modern wireless, remote controlled e-callers, I can just as easily pull off a stand by positioning the caller in such a way as to entice the coyote to circle, and positioning myself in that ever popular sniper position where my wind won't be a factor, if I set up properly.
What if they show up 1/4 mile downwind and get your scent? Gotcha!
Scientific fact #1: a coyote nose is so filled with receptors it knows you are there before you even get into your truck, AT HOME! Much less on stand. Gotcha!
quote:
When using hand calls, this means that the coyote just came in down-wind of ME. He catches my scent and leaves without my even knowing that I called anything. Why? Because being a coyote, he slipped down-wind under cover of the brush. A remote controlled E caller placed upwind of the honey hole while I sit cross-wind, is my main method of killing more coyotes that I probably would not have even seen otherwise.
That may work in IA but not here. You are making all coyotes out to be the same, Mr. Cronk! Gotcha!
quote:
And there are some days when i have to just chase them out of the corn.
That'll work where there's corn! Gotcha!
With the help of SCIENCE I have cut you all off at the knees! Stick to your day jobs...
If you are a Democrat. Only 18 more days 'til, PAYDAY!!!
[ August 12, 2008, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 12, 2008 06:44 PM
I was willing to argue with him until the "nose full of receptors" thing. Then I knew I didn't have a chance. Danged science.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 12, 2008 07:48 PM
Smithers,
Are you trying to beat Browning204 out of his Champion shit slinger title?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 12, 2008 07:55 PM
It's not ME, Mister Richard Cronk, it's science!
From a purely scientific perspective. A total of zero coyotes per year would be killed using the aforementioned techniques.
I wondered who would be the first to argue with SCIENCE! I had no idea it would be you.
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 12, 2008 09:49 PM
Leonard keeps screwing with your sigline and he's going to seriously hurt me. I just pulled something.
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted August 13, 2008 06:20 AM
Randy, I thought when I started reading your post about a family group of coyotes hunting deer with crows circling that I was in Kentucky!!!!!!!
Have you found a new mentor???
LOL!!!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 13, 2008 10:52 AM
Many coyotes were killed with hand calls long before most e-callers came on the market. Prior to their abuse, E-callers allowed success for many recreational callers who were less confident and less proficient with hand calls. Both handcalls and e-callers have their place and both will call coyotes. The better the understanding of coyote behavior in any particular area by the person doing the calling, the better the success that will be garnered by either hand calls or e-callers.
The advantages of the e-caller, as Whacker and others have pointed out, is getting the sound away from you to allow for better stand setups where you can take advantage of a coyote circling the caller in various habitat and wind situations. Another advantage of e-callers is the diversity of sounds and combinations of sounds that are available to the caller as has also been pointed out. Most e-callers offer a diversity of sounds beyond those most commonly used and abused. In areas where coyotes readily feed on carcasses in the company of crows and magpies, those combination sound setups will appear totally natural as opposed to the common "no brainer" sounds that might be abused by others. We know what sounds work when we achieve success but we often never realize what sounds may have created little to no interest or even repelled coyotes for one reason or another. Another advantage of e-callers can be the added volume needed on windy days or topography features and other factors that minimize volume allowing more coyotes to be reached.
The advantages of hand calls is that those who are proficient with them can make sounds that are often more realistic in situations where e-callers have been abused. With every e-caller I have ever heard, there is a degree of distortion background speaker noise. Some worse than others which is why I am a fan of the WT. In areas of heavy calling pressure, that background noise can easily be detected by coyotes that could associate that background noise with danger. The background speaker noise, in combination with a prey distress sound, followed by shooting and missing is much like the buzzer preceding the shock of a shock collar. In contrast, the day coyotes stop being attracted to natural prey sounds is the day they quit eating. There is no doubt in my mind that speaker distortion can become a red flag when abused. The more realistic the sound, the more effective it will be much like the difference in reactions between human vocalizations vs. electronic howls. Anything can be abused with over use. When you think of how many guys are trying to call coyotes to a pickup from a road with an e-caller or call coyotes that have seen the callers move in to their stand, it's only a matter of time before they associate those same distortion sounds with danger.
In situations where I believe e-callers have been used and abused, I prefer more natural sounds with hand calls and other more natural vocalizations. Hand callers are also more convenient when packing rifle and/or shotgun, shooting sticks, binoculars, range finders, etc. during longer distant approaches to a calling stand.
When I first started calling coyotes for control work and seeking good advise, I preferred the advise of those who protected large numbers of range sheep for a living. The advise from those men was based on killing every coyote as a necessity as opposed to the advise of those who didn't care how many they missed or didn't call. Those who protected large bands of range sheep found out how many they didn't call because the killing wouldn't stop until all the adult coyotes were removed. In contrast, when receiving advise from those who protected 400 lb. calves from 30 lb. coyotes, it didn't matter to them how many they didn't call or how many they missed, they were heros for just showing up. LOL!
Hey smithers, since you appear to enjoy judging post presentation more than judging post content, I thought I would point out that I am trying to be less confrontational with my posts. How am I doing? Did this one pass the Smithers post evaluation presentation test for political correctness or do I need to pass out more flowers and kiss more babies? LOL!
~SH~
[ August 13, 2008, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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LionHo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 233
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posted August 13, 2008 11:52 AM
Most guys that have come to the sport in the past few years probably get bamboozled into spending as much for an ecaller as a good rifle when time spent scouting for places to hunt with less calling pressure would be a much better investment.
Twenty plus years of calling cats to the camera suggests the best reason to use an ecaller is to take the focus off me. It's not that an ecaller is particularly more effective at calling critters. Hell, I've lip-squeaked bobcats and foxes and coyotes to within a few feet of me. Now, getting flanked by a pair of mountain lions working together last fall was reason enough to beg off of the fawn hand call, but if I was a recreational coyote hunter--which, admittedly I'm not-- I'd probably hark back to mouth calls and lipsqueaks for 90% of my calling hereabouts.
I'll also chime in that most ecallers I've heard sound like dung and that's why I got into building my own. Prior to this, I found hand calls and lipsqueaks more effective as they were more realistic, that is to say that until just a few years back commercial ecallers had no high-frequency component whatsoever. (Several notoriously over-hype their speaker's actual frequency response).
LionHo
Posts: 88 | From: Ventana Wilderness, CA | Registered: Aug 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted August 13, 2008 01:06 PM
quote:
Hey smithers, since you appear to enjoy judging post presentation more than judging post content, I thought I would point out that I am trying to be less confrontational with my posts. How am I doing? Did this one pass the Smithers post evaluation presentation test for political correctness or do I need to pass out more flowers and kiss more babies? LOL!
~SH~
You really are running for sheriff!!
Go ahead and be confrontational, that is when we learn the most anyway.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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