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Author
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Topic: 50 # coyote with play by play pictures of kill.
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted December 22, 2005 04:53 PM
Rod Haydel has been working on a new open reed call and I've been helping with the testing as well as filming and instructional DVD that will come in a package with the call. We have been on a few hunts together using the call and decided to try and wrap up the filming this week.
I met Rod yesterday morning just before daybreak outside Bossier City, Louisiana and we headed out. We were to meet the ranchers hired hand at the gate at 7 am. When we got there, on time, we noticed the hired hands truck was already there, but he wasn't. We assumed he had just walked off but after Rod went and looked in it was obvious he was already hunting, by the empty gun case laying in the seat. We sat and waited for a few minutes and as it got daylight I noticed a coyote running from a tree line towards another tree line maybe 500-600 yards out. We deduced that the hired hand must be walking the woods from where he had came. Sure enough about 5 minutes later we see him comming out back towards his truck. We meet each other and off he goes to make his rounds.
Rod had hunted this place before but back then it was owned by another man. He had told me of this place before and had already told me of the success he had had at getting coyotes out of the group of trees that the hired hand had just pushed the coyote out of. With this first stand already ruined we decided to go back in a little further in the direction the coyote was pushed. On our first two stands we had no takers, but on the third stand things looked up quiet a bit.
About 3-4 minutes into the stand the first coyotes showed, but checked up at about 60-70 yards.
Rod promptly let her hold a 60 grain V-Max and down she went. DRT.
I immediately got back on the new call doing some Ki-Yi's. After a few seconds of Ki-Yi's I did a few more rabbit distress cries and then back to the Ki-Yi's. About a minute later number two shows up from the same direction, but instead of checking up he continues towards the down wind side
By doing so he gets some cows in the line of fire. We wait until he is clear of the cows.
I give him a WOOOF!! with my voice. He stops.
And Rod drops number 2. A few more steps and he would have been directly downwind.
I knew the second coyote was big but the closer I got the bigger he got. We weighed him when we got back on Rods UPS scales. 50.85#'s. The other coyote we didn't weigh but would eaisily weigh in the upper 30's.
Hope you enjoy the pictures and story. Also be on the lookout for this new call sometime after the first of the year. It is as good one :thumb:.
Thanks for the great hunt Rod.
Merry Christmas.
Byron :grin:
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted December 22, 2005 04:55 PM
Here is a couple more picture of the double.
Good shooting Rod :thumb:.
Merry Christmas and Good Hunting
Byron :grin
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 22, 2005 05:16 PM
Well that nukes the theory that NE coyotes go 50# because of grey wolf hybriding. The little red wolf that once inhabited the LA area wasn't that big, itself. Are coyotes mutating, or evolving? Genetically, is bigger better? In another 50 years will 40+# coyotes be common?
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 22, 2005 05:29 PM
Nice big coyotes, Byron. Enjoyed the hunt & pics.
Merry Christmas, to you both.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted December 22, 2005 05:39 PM
Tom,
I've been telling about killing 50# coyotes since I've been on the internet (Only a couple of years). It seems that it is hard for some to believe, but I see a coyote or three every year that will hit the 50 # mark here in East Texas. When I first mentioned these coyotes I was questioned to the point I even questioned myself. I went as far as to buy scales for my truck for conformation. Since that time I've killed and weighed a bunch. For the record a mature male coyote in North East Texas and aparently North West Lousiana will weigh in the mid 40's, with some even topping 50.
Another point of contention that ammuses me is the willingness of some to believe that coyotes of this size aren't a true threat to cattle, espeially calves. Newborn calves are defenseless and very vulnerable to coyotes like this. I have seen first hand many "coyote killed" calves not to mention a few cows that were killed while giving birth. Coyotes are truly an adaptive animal. Nothing that they do would suprise me.
Byron ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ December 22, 2005, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 22, 2005 06:00 PM
It's too bad someone hasn't taken it upon themselves to use these predator hunting web sites for data collection. A "data center", so to speak. Reports like yours should be collected from around the nation and complied in a database. Parametric searches would reflect any trend in occurance, geography, and progression of these "super coyotes". We don't need no stinkin' Federally funded, tree huggin', biological survey committee. We could do it ourselves, if we could ever just get organized!
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 22, 2005 06:05 PM
Yeah, but that's like herding cats....
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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CBGC
Knows what it's all about
Member # 643
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posted December 22, 2005 06:10 PM
NASA,
This does not Nuke the theory of the Gray wolf in the NE at all. We have extremely large coyotes in this part of the country that weigh in the 60’s and even in the 70’s . There is a great book out that discusses the migration of the coyote and his travels back east (must buy)http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1551091119/qid=1135302357/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9594301-2324757?s=books&v=glance&n=283155. The
Red wolf is smaller, that’s why a monster in Texas is 50 and a monster in the NE is 60 or 70+. Biggest I have seen on a scale is 64 lbs.
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Posts: 46 | From: PA | Registered: Apr 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 22, 2005 06:11 PM
(Leonard) And that's the general attitude that keeps it from ever happening. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ December 22, 2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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CBGC
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Member # 643
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posted December 22, 2005 06:22 PM
Not to sure I understand please explain?????
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 22, 2005 06:24 PM
CBGC, then how do you explain the absense of "super coyote" reports from from places like Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana? These states have wolf populations too. I can't recall hearing of any 50# coyotes in Alaska, either. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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CBGC
Knows what it's all about
Member # 643
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posted December 22, 2005 06:55 PM
Nasa,
I cant answer that questions about out west have not been there. Do ya get coyotes out there that weigh 60 + ??? I didn’t post to argue with ya, just stating my thoughts. Coyotes are coyotes but so are dogs, never seen a Dalmatian (west) as smart as a Golden Retriever (EAST) Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
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Save a Deer Shoot a Road Hunter!
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Posts: 46 | From: PA | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 22, 2005 07:13 PM
I've spoke to some farmers, whom have seen their dog playing with coyotes. As well as fighting coyotes.
My dad has seen a feral dog running with a coyote, here in central Ia. He seen another feral dog running with a pack of coyotes out in NE, circa mid 60's.
Biggest coyote I shot in 81, weighed 50lbs on a [certified]feed bag mechanical scale. He had x-tra long legs & a dark Blue mask ring around his eyes.
I've seen a lot bigger [>50lbs], canines in my area over the yrs. No doubt in my mind. That coyotes don't bend the ecology rule's @ times, when mating ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
Interesting to me.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Doggitter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 489
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posted December 22, 2005 07:15 PM
When the heck did you meet my wife's Dalmation? That's literally the stupidest, uncooth, 4 legged domestic I've had the displeasure to meet. Period.
p.s. Did I mention that I don't like the dog?
Posts: 273 | From: Oregon rain forest | Registered: Dec 2004
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 22, 2005 07:18 PM
No argument intended, just some stimulating thought. I was hoping you had some insight to share with us. Rich in AZ usually has good contributions for discussions like this. Your point makes one wonder why only pockets of size enhancement are occurring. Why the lack of consistency, when the basic elements of the (presumed) justification are mutually apparent?
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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CBGC
Knows what it's all about
Member # 643
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posted December 22, 2005 07:21 PM
Yes I am saying Eastern coyotes are smarter???????
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Byron South
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Member # 213
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posted December 22, 2005 07:23 PM
I hunted coyotes in Alberta, Canada last October. Very cool experience. Easily the most beautiful coyotes I've ever seen. They looked huge but when you lifted them off the ground they were light as a feather compared to the way they look. Another thing I noticed was how much (for lack of a better word) finer boned they were. Even their facial features appeared finer. I've hunted coyotes in lots of places and each region seems to have coyotes with distictiveley different characteristics. Their all coyotes but seem to have evolved or adapted maybe to different circumstances. Texas alone has three seperate regions where the typical coyote is different. Their is almost a distict line where they change as well. South Texas coyotes are very small. A typical adult male will weigh about 25-30 pounds. The typical adult male West Texas and Panhandle coyotes will weigh about 35 to maybe 40 pounds. Where as you get East of Dallas and the typical adult male will weigh around fourty or so. I kill several a year in the mid forties here in North East Texas. Not only are they bigger but they are (for the lack of a better word) tougher constructed. They appear bigger boned and more muscular, where as the other "sub-species" appear more like "show dogs" these coyotes seem like "working dogs".
Tom,
I would like to some data like you mentioned. I don't think it would be that tough to do, but would require someone with enough time and desire to see it through. With the people as accessable as they are now, via the internet, you could easily select a few people in different regions to collect data as they go and turn it in to a central location. When enough data is gained just compile it.
Byron
[ December 22, 2005, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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CBGC
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Member # 643
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posted December 22, 2005 07:38 PM
U have never huntened
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Byron South
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Member # 213
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posted December 22, 2005 08:00 PM
CBGC,
I'm not wanting to start an argument either but wish to point out my observations of coyotes for what it's worth. Coyotes in the West have been persecuted to such a degree for generation after generation, believe me when I say, they are every bit as sharp as an Eastern coyote. Their are several reasons more are killed in the West and none of them have anything to do with their intelegence. I have said before and will say again. Coyotes in the thicker more populated regions of the country simply have more cover to use, and are conditioned to move when the least amount of human activity exist (Night). Growing up in these conditions and adapting to them, make for a difficult animal to call for sure, but they are not any smarter by any measurable degree. They simply have the terrain, cover, and conditioning to make them more difficult to succefully call. You can take a Western coyote to the East coast and he will learn this inside of week, maybe less. Their is no more adaptable creature on the planet that I'm aware of. The Easten coyote is nothing more than a Western coyote that has adapted, simple as that. Learning how they have adapted is the first step in devising tactics that will work to get them in front of the gun. No different than learning the habits and traits of any populations of coyotes anywhere you wish to hunt them, even in the West. I've hunted puplic ground in the west that has plenty of coyotes and gone days without seeing one. Why? It is not because they are smarter than the ones on the private ranches only a few miles away, but because they adapted to their environment.
Coyotes are like men. Regardless of their intelegence, most can be tempted into doing stupid things.
Byron
[ December 22, 2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 22, 2005 10:34 PM
All you guys have a point. Some of the theories are just that, theories.
It is my belief that coyotes share a lot of common traits, regardless of where they live. Some claim that there are (like) fouteen distinct subspecies of coyote. I know that I have seen quite a few that were different, identifiably different and it has everything to do with location. I guess that some populations share common ground, that seems clear to some observers?
Why do coyotes grow bigger in some parts of the country? Who knows? But. I personally do not buy the wolf stuff, I don't care how many times it is thrown against the wall, it doesn't stick, for me.
Are there, or have there ever been hybreds? I suppose so, since I have seen a couple of examples that defied any other reasonable explanation. I'm more inclined to accept feral dog/coyote mixes than wolf, but I offer no more PROOF than the easterners that swear that their coyotes are half wolf. This is something you just have to believe, or not, and I choose not to believe. I frankly do not care what biologist with what kind of degree(?) tries to tell me about proving these things with DNA, I'm not convinced that it answers the question of why eastern coyotes look bigger and (to my eye) just LOOK different. And, they look different in a doggy way, not a wolfy way.
Sometimes, it boils down to reading convincing evidence, or word of mouth. Conventional wisdom is a well known and frequently wrong, source.
We begin this thread with a lot of cool pictures and no axe to grind, except the man shot a 50 pound coyote. That's all we got. Any other conversation is welcome, but I will tell you right now that nothing beyond these pictures is going to be proved, beyond the shadow of a doubt.
So, have fun, opinions welcome, but please keep the discussion cordial.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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2dogs
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Member # 649
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posted December 23, 2005 05:07 AM
We started hunting Reds circa; Winter 62. I didn't start hunting with my Dad & his Bud's, until winter of 64. No coyotes spotted, during those yrs Winter snowfly.
Seen our first coyote, Winter 68. Within the next 10-12yrs. Is when we started seeing these large coyote-x's.
Makes me think, some bred with feral dogs or farm dogs. Because of lack of a coyote mate.
[ December 23, 2005, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
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CBGC
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Member # 643
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posted December 23, 2005 06:20 AM
Stimulating thought is very true, that’s why I enjoy these boards. Everyone has a chance to share their theories and thoughts. Byron summed it up in 1 sentence --> Coyotes are like men. Regardless of their intelligence (easterner spelled it correctly westerner spelled it wrong) tempted into doing stupid things! Also what U are saying is very true about the eastern coyote it did adapt to the conditions, this is why I am saying it is smarter. Byron I have great deal of respect for U and your knowledge on coyotes, but the eastern coyote is a different animal than the western coyote. Leonard I know U don’t agree with DNA theory, we have had this discussion before, but please buy Gerry Parker’s book (The Eastern Coyote The Story of Its Success), you will read it more than once.
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Sue and Mark Nami
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Member # 685
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posted December 23, 2005 07:23 AM
I read this debate on all the boards many times over and you'd think that Eastern coyotes had opposable dewclaws. I don't think bigger necessarily means smarter and I sure don't feel that skulking and hiding in thick timber makes coyotes smart either.
Let's say you have 3 scientists. One is a corn-fed 350# college graduate football player from Nebraska (the "N" on the helmit is for "Nowledge" you know). the second one is a San Francisco pro-gay advocate with tendencies favorable to PETA and the final is an inbred hillbilly circus clown. They all write papers on the intelligence of a coyote. Who you going to believe? And who the hell cares?
Taking an Eastern coyote doesn't turn a hunter into King Kong. The recipie is the same everywhere.
Hunter+Gun+Call+Coyote=PO'd Wife
The big problem with Easterners is they do their coyote shopping in all the wrong places. When I want peanuts I typically have more luck at a peanut farm rather than a zucchini farm. But HEY! That's just me.
There's lots of successful coyote hunters back east. I suggest you contact BM.
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All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough
good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke..1729-1797
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 23, 2005 07:26 AM
So......would coyotes from 'Red' states (that support gun rights & hunting) be smarter than coyotes from 'Blue' states (hand wringing liberals) ???
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 23, 2005 07:51 AM
Geeze! Why didn't I think of that? Opposable dewclaws, of course! Explains everything! lol
Good hunting. LB
edit: they have coyote farms, back east?
[ December 23, 2005, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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