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Author
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Topic: Locating or not locating before you hunt?
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 07:25 AM
How many of you locate your coyotes before you hunt an area? Pros and cons of doing so?
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted March 29, 2007 08:05 AM
Locating coyotes I see as an advantage,then you can get a much better setup on those coyotes than just going in cold calling. I can have the wind,cover and sun to my advantage and know there are coyotes in the area I'm calling.
As you know in the spring,summer to locate the den and then go in and call with most factors on your side can make it much easier.
Also a guy may not be in tight enough to those coyotes by cold calling and they might not come to your calls, versus locating and then getting up close and creating a scene that is much harder for even spookier coyotes to refuse.
I see it as a time saver and adds to the % of called in and killed coyotes. In the early fall when calling more young coyotes alot of times I will go in where people have seen/heard coyotes and do some cold calling as they come on a rope alot of times and adds some excitement (the unkown). Or if a rancher knows where a den is, I will get the location and go in and call it without locating.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 29, 2007 08:46 AM
If I had the opportunity to locate coyotes before I called, I would every chance I could get.
I see only "pros" from doing so.
~SH~
[ March 29, 2007, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 08:58 AM
Coy Whacker, any negative results from locating? I've got a boatload of info for both the positive and negative, but looking for what others have experienced.
Narrowing down the country especially if you have no history in the area is a huge plus! 90 percent of the coyotes live in 10 percent of the country.
The locating of dens when there is little if any coyote movement during this timeframe and carrying on as the pups get older in late summer as to what drainage, cornfield, or whatever is a plus. Not something a fur season caller may not think of doing but he can use it to keep track of numbers locations etc. for the upcoming fall, winter.It will change somewhat but it's still good info.
I guess maybe I should have said locating during fur season.Pros and Cons
I guess as far as locating goes I use it more than anyone I know,day or night, for reasons most will never think of or understand. I've always done it. I enjoy it and use the information accordingly. Many,many different spins to it though.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted March 29, 2007 09:11 AM
The only con I know in the summer and late fall is on coyotes that you have worked before. I have had a couple situations where I had worked the same group of coyotes 2 or 3 times. An old smart female with pups that can travel well like in August. If you locate, they are apt to hear you, know it's you, and haul ass. It doesn't translate into fur season work unless the family groups are still together and you are calling in October. Sometimes on those same coyotes if you can sneak in to where you think they are living and you are correct and get right in the middle of them and start calling they will run you over. But if you had located first they would have been on the offensive and trying to leave.
[ March 29, 2007, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 29, 2007 09:37 AM
Good point Cal.
I can only say "a locate" is not "a locate" is not a locate.
Again, we are back to a coyote's ability to differentitate between you, a siren, and an actual coyotes. Territorial coyotes do not fear an actual coyote but they do fear you.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2007 09:41 AM
Must have something to do with population densities? I cold call most of the time and, (some places) it's a safe bet that there is a coyote out there that hears me. This just brings up the discussion about up wind and down wind stand selection.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 09:56 AM
I can clearly see the advantage of locating den areas during summer by howling at night. In winter, I see no advantage in locating during the night. Why? The coyote that I locate at 10:p.m. will likely be somewhere else come morning. I don't hunt at night, and my Iowa coyotes won't howl back in daytime.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 29, 2007 10:13 AM
Randy,
I cold call about 50% of my stands as I hunt much of the same ground year after year. Locating areas that you know well and already know the travel corridors and areas where they like to spend their days, I feel will hurt you more than help. If hunting new areas without scouting I try to locate the night befor I hunt the area. This works well 70% of the time, the other 30% I think the coyotes that responded were moving through an area and or I just didn't move in close enough before making my stand/ sometimes pushing the limmit on approach has pushed them out and therefore it falls on hunter error. Also time of year and location plays a big part.
I agree with the concensis that locating is important and as always there are varibles and application issues.
sly
[ March 29, 2007, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: slydog ]
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 10:56 AM
Cal yep I've seen locating actually move coyotes out of drainages a time or two. No matter what time of year.Yea locating dens and adults with young pups and then during fur season are quite different.
Some of my locating is done with the intent of not hunting it that day, but in the near future.If they liked that spot one morning or evening odds are they will be there another time.
Some locating information you get is worthless and some is priceless.A responce at midnite in Jan isn't worth as much as a responce at first light or last light in Jan. to me anyway.
I guess another aspect are not only the vocal responces but if you pick your spots right the visual responces you can spot glassing during the daylight hours.It will pullem up on the ridges and give them away.
Wiley what do you mean you don't have time? Get up earlier or go home later SLACKER!!!
Latest complaint, coyotes in calving pasture, Tues am head down about an hour before light, LOCATE around complaint,2 mile radius approx. I get two single responces from the immediate area within a half mile of the pasture ,one north ,one southwest. I work the north one first bare pastures I call I see him heading away from me toward where the other coyote howled from. I regroup set off to where the other howl came from get set up two males come blastin in ,end of story.One hour of lost sleep was what it cost, it saved me hours of time wondering through the country looking for them. The were not in a spot that I have taken them before in, just a little patch tucked way back in the boonies. I know it now but the locating led me to it.An ALPHA male and a male pup, I am 99 percent sure the old dog was in the patch and the youing on came back to him. The first one was dark colored and the older male was very light why I would think that.Although this area was not totally new I have worked it before where these were hanging was.
Very rare especially if it is new ground for me to work it without locating around it right before light. In country I've worked allot, not near as much, if I can't find them in the usual spots, sure, but not nearly as often.
I also think where you locate from is important and this comes from past history in the area.How close or how far will determine if you get a visual or a vocal responce.Too close many times will either spook em or get them to come on in before you are ready.
Another con I see is if you hunt to soon after locating, coyotes will be paying more attention to anything coming from that way. Easier to get busted moving thru the country. I try not to locate from the direction I would like to enter the country from.Or I am aware of this fact and plan the hunt accordingly.
Boy were scratchin an iceberg here!!!
Can ya tell it's raining wind howlin and the ADC boys are grounded!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 11:14 AM
Rich, lived in Iowa 42 years, those boys will howl, but not as easy as the ones here, you get more visual responces or at least I did because of access to the coyotes, a dam road everywhere, A 2 by 2 mile section was huge where i came from. I had to have the record for lost sleep by farmers from me howlin in the neighborhood and old shep barking keeping him awake. The information you will get from country like that by locating at night is far more valuable than here, at least in my part of Iowa because of the very limited country they have that could hide a coyote. If its plowed fencerow to fencerow and the only cover after harvest for three miles is a big slough bottom and you here coyotes around it at midnite, pretty good chance they will be there at light. Maybe not, I hunted the flat farmgrounds, NW corner and the wooded drainage country Petersen Cherokee etc.Did a ton of locating in both types and had success day or night, visual and vocal.All year too. Maybe my part of the state was different for some reason. Pressure wise etc.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 29, 2007 11:26 AM
Good post Randy. Doesn't take long to fiqure out where they will be. Purdy much mirrors my experience. One thing I've learned, from locating with a howler at night, is to alway keep the truck between me and the farm. Gunshots from the milk house will scare the crap out of you. And some of those farm dogs charging down the road have had me running for the truck!
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 29, 2007 11:39 AM
quote:
I cold call most of the time and, (some places) it's a safe bet that there is a coyote out there that hears me.
That's me too. I rarely do any locating at all. But also think it's unusual I make a stand that a coyote does not hear my sound. Actually, I think on many stands, there are coyotes in multiple directions that can hear me, and any or all might respond.
I'm always quite interested when the subject of locating comes up though. Mainly because, as I said, I'm not doing it now. So I have to wonder if I might not be missing out on a chance to improve my success. But, when I start reading about the way you guys go about it, I tend to think it wouldn't work well with my method of operation. I always get a sense that you guys are dealing with a tiny little piece of ground, and often targeting very specific coyotes as well. That's not me at all. A typical day of calling will see my last stand end up anywhere from 20 miles (of BAD road) to occasionally over 100 miles from my first stand. And I never care "which" coyotes I get, at all. It's public ground, fur season. My method is more like taking in a huge piece of country, some days literally a thousand square miles, and trying to move quickly through it, just skimming the cream, making the choicest stands, not hesitating to put my foot on the skinny pedal to motor over 30 miles of marginal ground to get to 1 mile of really productive ground for the next stand.
I guess what I'm saying is, that to locate my calling route ahead of time, would take literally all night. And in many cases, would be more than just impractical, but downright impossible. And I figure I'm in hearing range of coyotes on nearly every stand anyway.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 11:58 AM
"If its plowed fencerow to fencerow and the only cover after harvest for three miles is a big slough bottom and you here coyotes around it at midnite, pretty good chance they will be there at light."
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RR,
It is also true that the slough bottom will be a favorite daytime hidey hole for resident coyotes anyhoo. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 29, 2007 12:39 PM
My method mirrors Daves' for the most part. I will say though, that in my own way, I am locating, just not with vocalizations or sirens or howls. Im looking at the ground, the road in front of me, trails off to my side or passenger side of my truck, visually locating, looking for tracks and scat.
I had a conversation with Higgins at the shindig last Nov, concerning some of this kind of stuff. I heard long ago on a fishing program, a big ole southern fella, whos' name I don't recall, but was a great TV fishing host, not a braggart or self righteous bastard, seemed to be a very knowledgable guy. Any way, his statement about fishing, paralels my take on coyote hunting. The quote goes something like this" 90% of the fish, are in 10% of the water", Thats how I view coyote country,and hunting them. I can look at lots and lots of country,and by either observing the ground for sign, or just going by instinct, know there just aren't any, or many coyotes to be called. Some of my hunting area, I'll make a stand every mile or so, other places I hunt, might be realy big country, but will see me, as Dave has to, drive 20 miles to the next stand.
So, a long answer, to a short question, no, I don't locate,in the usual sense of the term, I cold call most always, but use my eyes to locate sign.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 12:47 PM
Az-Hunter,
I'm glad to see that this thread smoked you out. There is always good information in your words.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 01:11 PM
Rich this country had little cover for coyotes scattered tracts here and there, not a large population of coyotes all over just pockets here and there. He maybe in this slough today and never in it again. The real good ones produced off and on all winter at one time or another. Knowing which ones had coyotes around them by locating really increased your odds for success. Otherwise much of your time was wasted on the ones that looked good but didn't have coyotes in them. Like I stated earlier after I have some history in a place the locating is still used but not as much.
DAA with your experience in your vast area you may have the best stands available without locating or they may be a place with coyotes in it that you haven't a clue are there.Happened to me a time or two, like a light bulb coming on.
For the most part we do work specific coyotes in relative small areas and the locating gives you an idea and a direction to start, it may not solve it but any help in taking the closest most agressive coyotes solve allot of things.
I will say DAA don't be locked into the only night time locating is being discussed I locate all day ,at times,and all times of the year, with allot of success ,you'd be suprised!Always done it from my first howler to my first locator tape in old Johnny Stewart.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 29, 2007 02:01 PM
RR: "Wiley what do you mean you don't have time? Get up earlier or go home later SLACKER!!!"
Hahaha! Listen to you. Aint you the tomcat?
I didn't say I didn't have the time Holmes. I guess "hooked on phonics" didn't work for you huh? LOL! Could I recommend the Oahe reading comprehension class for Iowegians?
I said "if I had the opportunity" meaning most times I just go and set up where I think they should be or where they were before and usually call them rather than making two trips.
Don't you have some fish to squeeze or something?
Iowegians....sheeesh!
When I'm calling country in a contest that I have never been to, I do a lot of locating as we did in Colorado. Most of the family groups we located in the evening were still in the same area the next morning particularly when calling individual sections. As you say, 90% of the coyotes USUALLY occupy only a small percentage of the available habitat.
If I am working a complaint at this time of year, I usually just go call them in and shoot them. I generally know where to expect them because it's generally the same pastures in relation to the calving area and I've worked most of these areas before. The closest undisturbed rough country nearest to the calving pasture. No great mystery. Art didn't teach you that? LOL!
In contrast, results from locating coyotes is a lot different during the prime fur season because you are dealing with hunting disturbance, less territorial behavior of adults, and transient pups looking for the local pub.
Answers to this question were bound to be mixed to account for different times of year, different hunting strategies, and different areas.
I'd guess locating coyotes in contest hunting makes the difference between killing coyotes on 50% of your stands vs. 1/3 of your stands.
I think locating coyotes is always beneficial if you have the time OR WANT TO TAKE THE TIME. So what if they moved in your direction last night. They'll do the same thing the next morning weather permitting and John Rancher doesn't drive over the hill yelling, "HEY, DIDN'T YOU SEE THAT COYOTE".
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 02:23 PM
"90% of the coyotes USUALLY occupy only a small percentage of the available habitat."
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Very true, but here in western Iowa the coyotes are usually out hunting the more open area's during the night. The rising sun seems to draw them back to their "safe" zones, which are the more secluded and brushy area's.
I can tell that RR knows quite a lot about coyotes, and I find it strange that the coyotes in his part of Iowa seem to howl a lot more during mid-day than they do around here.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted March 29, 2007 03:12 PM
I find myself always doing more and more locating. The only con i have ever seen is someone that gets right on top of them in the middle of the area instead of sticking to the roads and borders
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 29, 2007 03:57 PM
Rich I can't explain it either, I just know what I saw and heard over the years. My sons grew up going locating and had names for some of the wierd howlin coyotes they heard, Scratchy and Bob come to mind, many came to see without a sound and disappeared, who knows how many were eyeballin me in the one by one mile sections.I hunted this area hard and more times than not expected the howls before they came. I spent many many nights locating and I believe this enabled me to get more responces during daylight hours because I was sure something was going to respond and maybe give it that little extra effort timewise etc. This pinpointed them and increased my chances of killing them. Wouldn't doubt what you are saying about your area to be true with what you are doing to try and locate them.
Wiley, don't you have another CO ride along to take out!!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted March 29, 2007 05:04 PM
This is interesting reading for sure. I've never located. I've always cold called. I guess my excuse is two fold. One is that most of the country I call is 35 minute drive and further from home. A lot of it is much further from home. The second part of my excuse is much of the country I call doesn't have a road for miles, so to get into the calling area, I'd have to bounce through a pasture to do so and I don't think that would be too effective! I call almost all the same country from one season to the next, and it seems that I often find the coyotes in the same areas from one season to the next too. Once you've called an area for 20 years, you've about figured out where they will be and where they won't be on any given day.
I can see the validity of locating, especially if the area is completely foreign to the caller.
Interesting topic none the less! Carry on!!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 07:09 PM
Randy Roede,
I believe you sir. Those coyotes really act differently from one location to another don't they? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted March 31, 2007 04:56 AM
I sometimes go out early in the evening or morning darkness and howl to locate a general area that holds some coyotes. In snow it gives me a jump start on where to look and track . Will not be perfect but generally the coyotes are within a mile of that general location and usually will locate them glassing or by tracks within a couple of hours .Gives me a little advantage since I have not recently brought their ears up ,tend to be in somewhat of a stand-down mode.Once spotted I will move as far away as I can and still see them,the farther the better.Sometimes I find the coyotes have come to the location howl I made while I was elsewhere doing the same. That is why I do not howl very long. Just howl listen for a reponse and move on. Don't want them to come to the call while I am there.(Night hunting not allowed here.)thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted March 31, 2007 05:09 AM
Hey Rich, I have never had any luck getting coyotes to howl back in daylight here in Iowa..... until this year. Surprised the heck out of me and killed a few of them.Mid morning and late afternoon a few times.May never hear it again if I killed all of them, but sure was interesting.thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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