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Author
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Topic: Coyote Attributes
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 16, 2003 03:38 PM
Cal sits in the front! Seriously, let's look at the coyote's adapatbility versus the condor, an endangered species. Endangered species have several things in common: restrictive habitat requirements, very little tolerance for changes in their environment, usually come of breeding age at a relatively older age, small litter/ clutch sizes. In every category, and even some I forgot, the coyote has evolved to be able to roll with the punches and respond quickly to environmental variations and changes.
I gotta go with Bill on the howling thing. Howling does not, in my thoughts, influence litter size. Rather, the other way around since howling is the means of communication between packs and individuals and serves to allow communication, maintain contact with pack mates, and maintain suitable spatial distribution between packs. As the pop'n has rebounded from mange hereabouts and the overall numbers have increased, we see a greater frequency of vocalizations going on. Five years ago when you couldn't find one anywhere, even the coyote haters were lamenting the fact that they never hear them howling anymore. Just my .02.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 16, 2003 05:15 PM
My previous answer was tongue in cheek, but I can see that Jay is quite taken with the opposable thumb theory. From what I have gathered, cultural anthropologists seem to think the ability to create tools was a major factor in the scope of evolution. How do you do that? With the dexterity afforded by the opposable thumb, and the brain capacity.
Okay, coyotes are resourceful, and addaptable. But many studies have concluded that they are one of the smartest animals on the planet. Of course, not all of them are equally smart.
That's my answer, and I'm sticking to it: intelligence.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 17, 2003 06:24 AM
... however, the coyotes extreme adapability has often rendered predator-control efforts ineffective. The coyotes ability to adapt to a changing environment is ultimately a consequence of it's complex behavior, especially its manifold communication system (Lehner 1978)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 17, 2003 09:47 AM
quote:
That's my answer, and I'm sticking to it: intelligence.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 20, 2003 11:04 AM
Jay, don't you think we have waited long enough to find out the REAL, single most important thing that the coyote has going for him?
Inquiring minds want to know, dude!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 20, 2003 11:33 AM
Another vote for Cal Taylor here. Adaptability sounds like the best answer. Only the coyotes know for certain, and since Jay is part coyote then I'm sure he has correct answer.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted July 20, 2003 11:48 AM
Apparently from reading the board, the general consensus is Adaptability. Actually I tend to believe it is the human factor that so governs the survivability of the coyote whether it lies in the hunter inabilities or human intervention by so-called animal rights orgs that hamstring efforts to adequately manage wildlife. Factor in the coyote's ability to control its populations to match it's chosen environment and I feel management becomes increasingly impossible.
One human characteristic is that they love mystique and tend to elevate objects, creatures and events beyond what they really are. "Fish stories" are good examples. I truly believe that the cleverness of Dr. Coyote is overrated and overstated. If I can fool coyote with the frequency that I do and in the manner I do, then they aren't all that omnipotent. Coyote are creatures of opportunity. Coyote numbers follow a sine curve that lags behind behind a "food source" sine curve. That food source is mostly created by man in the form of sheep, goats, cattle, stock ponds, domestic dogs, cats and urban trash cans. It's not that the coyote has adapted to "city life", it is because man has allowed it to happen.
Just some quick thoughts to throw at you.
edited due to missing word. I have yet to adapt to the proper use of a keyboard.
[ July 20, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 21, 2003 06:48 AM
Jay N. said "One human characteristic is that they love mystique and tend to elevate objects, creatures and events beyond what they really are. "Fish stories" are good examples. I truly believe that the cleverness of Dr. Coyote is overrated and overstated"
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Jay,
I agree with that statement with at least eighty percent of my own thoughts on the subject. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) There are a few people who are trying to make an exact science out of coyote calling. I feel that a lot of people wanting to get started into calling get scared off by some of the stuff they read on these boards. Remember all of that human scent nonsense that used to be printed in the old trapping books? Never put your nose down near your bottle of lure because you will contaminate it with human odor? Always wear rubber boots and wear clean gloves when setting traps? Some of the same type of nonsense is being taught about calling coyotes too. Nothing is carved in stone when it comes to calling the coyote. Sure a man needs to take reasonable care to be quiet, watch the wind and a few other things like that. You still must get out there and blow on some kind of call before anything will come. I love your way of thinking Jay. You may be ugly but you sure ain't short on smart.
[ July 21, 2003, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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trappnman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 168
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posted July 21, 2003 06:54 AM
Can (do) coyotes control their own populations?
No.
As Wiley says, if you have evidence that coyotes THEMSELVES control litter size and population, I would like to see it.
Most important attribute?
1)nose 2)eyes. or wait a minute...
1)eyes 2) nose
Easy to fool a coyote? Sure- fool his ears.
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Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting and Fishing
Posts: 40 | From: Mn | Registered: Mar 2003
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Cory Smith
PAKMAN
Member # 69
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posted July 24, 2003 10:54 AM
I am definately not as experienced as all of my fellow writers. At least in coyotes.
Everyone has very valid points, but ......................The key has gotto to be inteligence. My strong point is whitetails and they have a super keen nose. But years ago they were nearly wiped out by hunters. They are highly adaptable. I don't know of a habitat that a coyote exist in that a whitetail doesn't. Or at least it will in a few more years. But a coyote is 10x more superior at living than a deer. We would have no more deer if it weren't for human intervention.
I have read these boards constantly for about a year now and value everyone's opinion, becaause of the vast experience. But looking at this topic from a survivability standpoint INTELIGENCE
Posts: 6 | From: south Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cory Smith
PAKMAN
Member # 69
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posted July 24, 2003 11:07 AM
Sorry I screwed up. But from a survivability standpoint, Inteigence is the only difference that keeps him a head of the game, from other animals. deer have adapted to most places but could still be shot out. Vocalaztion , crows have a tremendous array of calls. But you can go out and hammer crows. Litter size heck, alligators have huge litter sizes and they control their population becaus ethey are canabalistic. It's kinda territorial thing.
Wiley sense of smell , well thats agood one but with out the superior intelligence to use it it's trivial. Without intelligence they smell human """ STAY AWAY''""" Then how come they are tumping garbage cans over eating scraps, living in neighborhoods, stealing cats and dogs. All of this stuff wreaks of human scent. Bu they have the intelligence to hopefully know when they are safe and when they might have to circle down wind.
Feed me to the flames
Posts: 6 | From: south Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 24, 2003 11:27 AM
Cory, you make excellent points, and I happen to agree, which is just coincidental. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 24, 2003 11:45 AM
So Cory, by talking about them getting used to human scent and being able to take pets and garbage cans is that they have "adapted" to being able to live around people, right? Without adaptation, intelligence does them no good. Intelligence is a good answer, but without the ability to adapt to different situations it still isn't quite right. When you talk about deer adapting to humans, but still being able to be shot out, then they haven't adapted well enough to avoid human contact. The way I look at it if it was purely intelligence we wouldn't be able to trap or call a coyote, they would be too smart.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 24, 2003 04:24 PM
quote:
The way I look at it if it was purely intelligence we wouldn't be able to trap or call a coyote, they would be too smart.
Cal, you could be right as rain. But, Cory's point was that without seasons and protection, deer in America may have become extinct long ago.
The coyote, however has filled the vacuum, expanded his range and his numbers in spite of a virtual all out war, no protection whatsoever.
The fact that you are able to trap coyote means very little, as trapping, in one form or another can capture any animal on the planet; smart, dumb rare or common.
You have been put at the head of the class by some pretty heavy hitters. Me and Cory (respectfully) disagree with your analysis.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cory Smith
PAKMAN
Member # 69
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posted July 25, 2003 05:22 AM
I simply see that their intelligence allows them to be very adaptive. Kinda the chicken or the egg first.
A raccon is very adaptive to his environment but just hasn't got the intelligence to be in the same class as Mr. coyote.
Posts: 6 | From: south Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 25, 2003 06:12 AM
Many researchers consider the wolf to be the most intelligent of the canids. {you should hear some of the stories Danny tells about the two he raised)The wolf was extirpated through out the lower 48 because it was so specialized. The coyote thrives in the same area under the same pressure because it is so adaptable.
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 25, 2003 08:07 AM
I agree with Cory that it is kind of like the chicken and the egg. As for the war Leonard, it was over when they outlawed 1080. That was the true beginning of the coyote population explosion. There is no other method that could actually wipe out or signifigantly lower for any time period the total coyote population on a large scale.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted July 27, 2003 07:40 AM
The question was:
JN: "What do you believe is the ONE, single most important thing that coyote has going for them?"
Adaptability was the first thing that came to my mind also but adaptability encompasses "many" things, not just "one" thing.
Adaptability considers smell, hearing, sight, reproductive efficiency, maternal instincts, territorial instincts, social behavior, wariness, learned behavior/conditioned responses (intelligence), etc. etc.
If you had to pick ONE "sense" (thing?) from their list of "adaptable" characteristics, I still contend that it would be their sense of smell. Their "intelligence" (looking for a better word due to human inference) allows them to process the information that they gather with their nose. I suppose you could say that their nose doesn't do them much good without their "intelligence" and I could say that their "intelligence" doesn't do them much good without their nose.
Maybe Cal's answer is right and the question is in error because you can't single out one thing.
As far as humans being the single biggest influence, that's interesting when one considers how the Hollywood and Chicago dumpster coyotes have demonstrated how they can survive with man and the 1080 era has demonstrated how they can suvive in spite of man.
Coyotes expanded their range into the Eastern United States during the peak of the fur boom if that tells us anything about man's influence. A good argument could be made that man has influenced their survivability in a positive manner.
As far as wolves intelligence, I think wolves are more intelligent than coyotes but they are less adaptable. Too large of home ranges, packing behavior, boldness, etc. etc.
They were not as adaptable as coyotes so they were eliminated by crude trappers on horseback.
The litter size issue is also a topic for debate. I believe a better case can be made for the number of yearlings that breed having more influence on population dynamics than litter size in "MANY" cases.
In my snapshot of the world (S.D.) we have seen population highs and lows with very little change in litter size from year to year. I suppose it's because food is relatively constant and ever changing (birds, mice, rabbits, deer, fruits, vegetables, carrion, etc. etc.).
Maybe in certain areas coyotes are more dependant on a single food source that could be affected by their populations and in turn affect their litter sizes. I think in most situations, coyotes will experience territorial issues before they run out of food.
Why do I think that?
Because, short of a diseased coyote (mange, parvo, etc.), I have never seen a skinny coyote during breeding season.
~SH~
[ July 27, 2003, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2003 08:02 AM
Hey, baby! I like it! We're all right!
Jay's question is wrong. Bad boy. Go to your room!
You can come back when you debug your question.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 27, 2003 08:14 AM
Wiley,
I think you are absolutely right on the yearlings breeding topic. I have never understood it, but some years you find several wet yearlings, usually with an older dog. And some years they don't seem to breed. I always wondered if it had something to do with the previous years conditions causing them to cycle sooner. They have been doing it with cattle for years. Upping food amounts and quality to get them to breed earlier. One more observation is that the dens taken with yearling bitches, the pups are almost always 2 weeks to a month younger than the average. I have found 2 week old pups in the middle of July, but off of a yearling bitch.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2003 04:29 PM
This might also be part of that chicken or the egg question, but let's assume that we have an inballance of breeding age males, one year.
What's a dog coyote gonna do? they all can't fight over not enough mature bitches to go around.
So, he courts the YOY female. It takes a while, but eventually, she comes into season with all the attention, and better late than never, we have a litter.
If this happens across an entire region, who knows why? But, there might be some obscure condition that favors the survival of an adult male, over a female?
Beats me, but I always have heard that the whole population thing was controlled by the seven year rabbit cycle, but lagging behind a year. Not so?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted July 28, 2003 06:43 AM
Leonard,
I think the whole bred yearling female issue is a little more complex than a skewed ratio of males to females. I think it has more to do with exploitation.
If you take Yellowstone PRIOR TO WOLF REINTRODUCTION and other unexploited populations. The yearling females "USUALLY" stay with the group and "USUALLY" do not breed. There is a lot more pack formation also. It stands to reason as so few are being killed. The adjacent home ranges are also filled with packs so anyone that tries to immigrate gets their butt kicked back home again. Hence, the safety of the pack.
Outside of Yellowstone there is continual mortality. You may have a mated pair where the old female gets shot. This creates a prime situation for the dispersing yearling that is dispersing due to the voids created by mortality.
I don't know if I explained it very well but this makes more sense to me.
No need to go to the singles bar unless your single. If you are single, you don't stay in a bar where everyone's paired up.
Hope this helps!
This is why I say that I think the number of yearlings that breed is a pressure release valve for coyote populations.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cory Smith
PAKMAN
Member # 69
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posted July 28, 2003 12:01 PM
I know we are off the point of the thread, but pop. control were some suggestions brouht up. I have a mere questions, Does a YOY female come into heat when a pop. is high? If she does SHE WILL BE BRED!!! This may only make family group territories a lil' smaller, if prey is abundant.
If YOY females don't come into heat , Why?? Social structure,keep it down? I'm just trying to get a better grasp on pop. dynamics so I can apply them to my area.
I am assuming the only time she wouldn't come into heat is in a high populated area, with no exploitation. These areas are far and few between.
Just learning, Cory
Posts: 6 | From: south Al | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted July 29, 2003 07:43 AM
I probably should have asked what 30 things, etc...
OK Leonard, I'll shorten the obviously flawed question but this just may explode your server.
Here goes....Short and sweet.
Q: What do you believe?
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 29, 2003 03:36 PM
Jay,
I believe that it takes a big coyote to weigh a ton.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
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