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Author
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Topic: Eastern Coyotes
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 10, 2005 08:27 PM
buck poison pen, I have hunted with and videoed some of the most successful callers in the nation:
Scott Huber, Cal Taylor, Quinton Wagoner, Tim Behle, Byron South, Leonard Bosinski, Tom Bechdal, Brent Saxton, Bruce Kennedy, Gerry Blair, and Gerald Stewart. Geralds technique is rock solid and he can hold his own with anyone.
You Sir, apparently have an agenda and are suspect. Do the initials B.M. mean anything to you?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 10, 2005 08:28 PM
I was thinking the same thing, Rich.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted February 10, 2005 08:53 PM
Damn, I thought this was going to be a good thread!
I will tell you this Gerald is welcome in my calling spots anytime! And any tips or advise he gives you can be taken to the bank!
Brent
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Kee's Custom Calls
http://www.keescalls.com
Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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Pa Teeny
Knows what it's all about
Member # 562
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posted February 11, 2005 04:10 AM
Gerald - How much is the fee and will there be room for walk ins? I am intrested and would love to hear what you have to say.
If I come I would stay for both shows and bring my buddies.
What topics will you be covering, any videos/ powerpoints?
Mouth calls- electronic,
eastern vs. western coyotes
day time hunting vs. night?
I am in Somerset( exit 110) on the turnpike and will try to make it if I can get a babysiiter or see if the wife is off and will allow me to pursue this crazy coyote stuff?
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Coyote Hunting best Cure for the Winter Blues!!
Posts: 12 | From: Laurel Mountains of PA Elevation 2827 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pa Teeny
Knows what it's all about
Member # 562
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posted February 11, 2005 04:25 AM
Gerald there are 2 new castle in Pa- I need to know the zip code or more information. Could you link the schools website.
They are at opposite sides of the state?
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Coyote Hunting best Cure for the Winter Blues!!
Posts: 12 | From: Laurel Mountains of PA Elevation 2827 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pa Teeny
Knows what it's all about
Member # 562
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posted February 11, 2005 04:37 AM
Found the school and the web site
http://www.laurel.k12.pa.us/
Thanks see you then if all goes well?
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Coyote Hunting best Cure for the Winter Blues!!
Posts: 12 | From: Laurel Mountains of PA Elevation 2827 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted February 11, 2005 05:20 AM
Wow, what did I say wrong? Better yet what did he say wrong. I appreciate someone trying to run interference for me but I am a big boy and can take care of myself.
I understand the need to delete negative posts to try and keep the grass fire from turning into a forrest fire. I did a seminar for the Pa Trappers Association in January and managed to get out of town without being tar and feathered so I know there are some nice people in Pa. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
If someone is upset because I do not post often on the boards, maybe I should give them a reason for that.
I love the sport of game calling and it has been a joy in my life to try and help others learn how to enjoy it also. When I joined one of the early predator boards I was full time into running our company as well as trying to be involved in the local schools as a PTA president, our local church as well as other community activities.
I found myself absorbed into answering as many questions as I could on that one board out of that compulsion to help others. I woke up one day and found myself going to the board to the degree that it was taking away from the business and other time with my family. That combined with the anxiety of having to deal with those who would attack me with no good justification other than I was who I was....and they evidently did not like that.
I was being attacked by another competitor in the industry who had surrounded himself with like minded individuals who would join in the fracus with the same vitriolic dialouge that was irrational and baseless. I have joked at times that when ever he grunted, they would rise to the surface. I had an affectionate name for them that was based on a particular bodily function that rhymes with his last name. You figure it out.
Those two factors combined to make me decide that I simply did not have the time to spend on the boards doing what I many times had to do all day in my business anyway, that is talk coyote calling. I also felt the presssure from the fact that I could not frequent several or all boards so dropping out all together would eliminate the appearance of favoritism or factionalizing.
It is sad that someone in my position can not feel or try to act like "just one of the boys" because of others expectations, attitudes and actions. That reality has left me wanting on many occassions.
I am not always graceful and diplomatic but one thing I can do is respect others opinion and not feel that I have to tear them down because it is not one I would hold. I wish others could do the same.
Enough of the pity party...I will be in the New Castle 1 hour north of Pittsburg. The program will incorporate powerpoint and DVD visuals as well as call demonstrations. It is for a high school fundraiser and I am looking forward to it greatly.
[ February 11, 2005, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted February 11, 2005 06:18 AM
Gerald, have fun with your presentation at the fund raiser;
For those close to this PA location, you should not miss what this man has to offer.
Gerald's family has done more for wildlife calling than all internet boards put together.
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 11, 2005 08:59 AM
I can tell you one thing, Gerald Stewart has a lot of friends around here, in spite of him being able to take care of himself. Truthfully, I would defend any member from unwarranted attack.
I thought briefly, of saving the offensive posts, but it wasn't worth the effort.
The thrust was that Gerald was unlikely to actually do any hunting of the eastern coyote for fear of failure, since he has an undeserved reputation as a famous coyote hunter. He's after a fast buck.
The thing is; hunting coyotes anywhere back east is not an easy accomplishment for a born and raised westerner. It's not a fair measure of skill. I have the feeling that I'd probably not even see a coyote if I hunted several days in Pennsylvania? That doesn't mean they would pull my pants down and call me a phoney. At least, if they did; it wouldn't be fair.
So, depending on who has what kind of attitude, it is a "no win" situation, if you go back there to show the locals how it's done, and then strike out.
If that is what I was up against, I'd say forget it, get somebody else to take the bait. The fact that GS does go there, whether he sets foot in the field or not, that is a positive gesture, not a reason to criticize.
Consider BM as a coyote hunter, versus GS. Apart from being competitors in similiar business; one of those guys (actually) hunts and the other only talks about it.
We are dealing with a troll, an unfortunate byproduct of the Internet community.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Pa Teeny
Knows what it's all about
Member # 562
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posted February 11, 2005 09:59 AM
Larry are you hosting the show I see you are from Mercer?
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Coyote Hunting best Cure for the Winter Blues!!
Posts: 12 | From: Laurel Mountains of PA Elevation 2827 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 11, 2005 09:59 AM
Gerald, you said,
"I appreciate someone trying to run interference for me but I am a big boy and can take care of myself."
"It is sad that someone in my position can not feel or try to act like "just one of the boys" because of others expectations, attitudes and actions."
Many of us feel at home here because on this board we are "just one of the boys". We occasionally have little squabbles among ourselves, just like most families, but when a troll attacks any of us the rest will "run interference" for him, as we did for you. Many of us know you and have hunted with you and here you are "just one of the boys" regardless of your attitudes, expectations or position. Accept it. The trolls should also.
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 11, 2005 10:41 AM
"It is sad that someone in my position can not feel or try to act like "just one of the boys" because of others expectations, attitudes and actions."
Gerald, Back when you were asking about what sounds to put on the preymaster chips, I e-mailed you the link to this site for two reasons. One was the fact that I knew some of the members here were familiar with your sound libray and the other reason was that I thought this board would be a "safe haven" for you. As far as I know, everybody here is just one of the boys, except for Higgins. He has moved on up to Guru status..
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 11, 2005 11:14 AM
Not anymore dennis. Leonard tagged me with that after my one thousandth post. He pulled the plug on that a couple of days later. Too bad.
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Hodgen
Knows what it's all about
Member # 180
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posted February 11, 2005 11:20 AM
Guys,
You can't take the frustrations of the "easterners" to heart so fast. They sit and read these boards, ask questions, and try the advice given to them to no avail. It seems to have boiled down to "show me" at this point, because they believe you don't quite understand what they are up against. Remember, you're talking to guys who may have made 100 or so stands without a response.
Our predator association this past fall invited Byron South up to do a seminar. He was invited to hunt a couple days prior to see first hand what the folks here are up against. Unfortunately he ran smack into a hurricane and ended up hunting in flood conditions, washed out roads, and whatnot. But the whole objective was to get a proffesional on-site, to give us some insight on how to produce more coyote responses, after experiencing the area.
I have hunted coyotes both east and west. And trust me, there is a BIG difference. Discussions on "Coyote Hunting 101" is not going to help these guys. It's got to go to a deeper level, and until someone actually comes here and does it, they won't fully understand these guys frustrations.
Posts: 59 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 11, 2005 11:49 AM
Rich, I can put it back, just thought you might be taking it wrong? I was saluting you for your participation, if nothing else.
Hodgen, truthfully, I don't have to go there to understand the problems easterners face. But, what can I do that would benefit? I know what I know. I have no insights, nor does most of the others that share our target rich environment. It's tough, I acknowledge it. In fact, I would go so far as to admit that it's too tough for me, I probably would take up something a little more rewarding, like crocheting?
Other than that, all we can do is commisererate. BUT, sometimes it seems like, back east, there are more coyote hunters, than coyotes.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Hodgen
Knows what it's all about
Member # 180
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posted February 11, 2005 12:09 PM
Well I think the only time we get more coyote hunters than coyotes, is at these contests. But on the other hand, I don't know if I would classify them "coyote" hunters either.
If an easterner sticks with coyote calling for a couple years, he is either passionate or brain dead, because its alot of cold long stands between responses. My typical season (Oct-Jan) used to consist of 3 nights of calling a week, and on a good year result in maybe 5 responses a season. I much prefer 5 that respond to one stand, as I have experienced out your way.
It seems we got enough coyotes to go round. The trappers and houndsmen seem to be able to stack up a few pretty regular. But consistant success at calling them is far and few between.
Crocheting might be a viable alternative, but it seems I took up air travel instead.
[ February 11, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Hodgen ]
Posts: 59 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 11, 2005 12:32 PM
Rich,, You didn't take that as being serious?
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 11, 2005 12:44 PM
Dennis, of course not. I wrote "too bad" that I wasn't a guru anymore. Lost my ten minutes of fame. Just joking Leonard. I prefer not having to contend with that "target" after my name. I have to remember to put smilies or lol after something that can be interpreted in more than one way. Sorry Guys.
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted February 11, 2005 01:06 PM
Hunting in the East is tough, thats a fact. In order to stay at it here in the East you haft to love to call and love to predator hunt. And you haft to enjoy it. Thats why alot of the new callers here dont keep calling, after the first year or two they dont get a respnce the quit!
One of the main things here in the East is you haft to find the coyotes. You cant call them if they are not there. And with alot of little farms sometimes its hard to get permission to hunt all of them and be able to put yourself were you need to be at the right time. Its alot of work to kill coyotes here in the East and it takes alot of time to learn all the ins and out of eastern calling. Alot of guys just dont hang in there long enough.
Brent
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Kee's Custom Calls
http://www.keescalls.com
Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 11, 2005 01:19 PM
Hodgen, I did a little calling in Pa. this past year. Ohio and Kentucky also. I have video of those states as well as Missouri, Arkansas and Tennessee. I defy anyone to look at those video clips and tell me which state it was shot in. The woods, hollows and pastures in the Ozarks are identical to those in the Laurels. And frankly the coyotes are, in most cases, interchangeable.
Reality check. An eastern caller that comes out here expecting to be overrun by huge packs of yapping coyotes is going to be disappointed. KeeKee is an extraordinarily fine caller. He has a formidible arsenal of sounds and vocalizations. He blanked on a couple of days when he was out here last month. I sent him to one area that I know has good densities. I'm sure he saw lots of sign and I'm sure coyotes heard him. They refused to respond. No surprise, they ARE coyotes. Coyotes in one area should not be judged by coyotes and their behavior in a different area. What anyone experiences in their area at any particular time is what Scott H. calls a "snapshot in time" and does not necessarily apply anywhere else at a given time. The most consistantly successful callers work in generalities more often than in specifics because they are calling the most versatile animal on the planet. In 1825 when the first bounty was placed on the coyote,5 dollars, which was a significant sum back then, the coyote went entirely silent and nocturnal. People thought they had disappeared from the earth while in actuality they were denning in their back woodlots. Coyotes live in downtown Phoenix, they are occasionally spotted in the early am on Central Ave. The thousands of people that walk on those sidewalks during the day are totally oblivious to their presence. Coyotes adapt very quickly to human pressure or the lack of it, and that is one of the major contributors to the difference in general respose rates between east and west coyotes. Still they are all driven by similar social behavior which makes them vulnerable to us. In the west 30 minutes is a very long stand. In the east I have spent more than two hours on stand. Sometimes a caller must be as versatile and adaptable as the coyote.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 11, 2005 01:30 PM
Yeah, but Rich, we're a lot better shots than they are....duck and run!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted February 11, 2005 01:46 PM
Hodgen, I appreciate your take on it. It is very different than the typical western calling experience. You have too modify, tweak and be a little more creative than guys in the west. Sounds like you were at the Tunkhannock seminar since you referenced the Coyote 101 program or did you see that elsewhere?
If you were there, were you able to glean anything useful from the 4 hours or was I just creating a hot breeze? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It is a tad bit frustrating when I talk to guys who will profess calling three or four in a season maybe taking 1 or 2 and then to have to hear over and over from guys who say it can't be done. How East is east? Why can guys in Maine take 3 to 7 in a season and so many in Pa take none? Anybody want to spectulate on how that can happen? Maine is east of PA. Shouldn't the calling there be even harder if you subcribe to the East smarter versus western dumber theory.
At the Tunkhannock seminar I had a guy tell me a story of how he had called and killed a coyote this past season. He was struck by how easy it was at that particular stand compared to the # of attempts he had made over the past couple of years. I related to him my belief that he had just happened to hit all the variables right on that stand. It might not come together for another 25 stands in his country. Over here the variables come together more quickly. I think due to these three variables; more coyotes, less pressure, more conducive terrain.
I do want to hunt there very badly and it will happen some day. I have had the opportunity to call in Wisconsin on two 3 day trips(none called), Indiana( two days-two called, none killed), Vermont and Connecticut one pack called none killed), Kentuckey (32 stands - two called and one killed on the last stand of the last morning). Does that qualify me for the Eastern Calling School of Hard Knocks?
My father, my sister and I called in Prime coyote weather in prime calling terrain for three days and came up empty. Does that qualify me for the Western Calling school of hard knocks?
I once had a frustrated coyote caller from Arizona tell me that he had zero success with our caller and bought a very expensive competitors unit and called only one coyote in a seasons worth of calling. Does that make him a blood brother to frustrated callers from the East?
Just food for thought. Don't take any of this as "in your face dialoque". I am simply trying to stimulate reasonable debate because we can all learn from it.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 11, 2005 01:55 PM
A gentleman just registered on HM with the exact same IP address as buck poison, What are the odds, eh? I expect we will be hearing from him.
One thing for sure, he isn't BM; at least his IP doesn't match up?
Welcome "skunny".
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Hodgen
Knows what it's all about
Member # 180
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posted February 11, 2005 01:58 PM
quote:
Sometimes a caller must be as versatile and adaptable as the coyote.
That's the point entirely.
And that is what the eastern guys are after from these seminars. They know coyote hunting 101 and they are looking for the next level.
Even after succesfully calling coyotes in New York, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Ohio, Wisconsin, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, and California. I feel I am adaptable and versatile. But the coyotes I have here in northeast PA give me fits and don't act like any others I have encountered. They are deliberate in their movements, and go from "point A" to "point B" with no distraction.
Posts: 59 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted February 11, 2005 02:06 PM
So....
Are Eastern Rottweilers harder to call than Western Rottweilers?
Are Western Border Collies dumber than Eastern Border Collies?
They're just dogs. (I said that for Higgins benefit)LOL
I can have bad luck calling just fine where I'm at, thank you very much.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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