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Author
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Topic: Do you use a coverscent?
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted September 11, 2005 06:28 PM
Hmmm.
To answer Cal...
They Always stop. They Always do.
Todd touched on something without knowing it. The head is where most of the human stink comes from so mesh hats don't really help.
Gerald took me by surprise because of all the coyotes I have shot, I can't remember a single one that smelled of skunk. The buck scenario of chasing a doe after skunk sex is interesting. If a skunk squirts I don't care what caused the excitement, I'm outta there.
Another reason I don't like skunk scent is because I'm married and I'd much rather sleep inside than out.
Do I actually use scents? Occasionally. It's because I have some laying around and decide to use it for kicks. I bought a bunch of juice awhile back because Leonard and Higgy convinced me that it works "Magic". For some reason I cannot bring myself to throw it away so I ocassionally drag som alog and carefully sprinkle it around unlike some people who attack the spray trigger. Lord help you if you happen to be down wind. Cough, gasp! Spit and light up a Marlboro.
So who do you consider the all time hijacker?
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 11, 2005 07:03 PM
Yeah, how hard can it be?
When I started, you couldn't buy a spotlight, or camo clothing, OR an electronic caller. I made my own spotlight and caller from an automotive 8 track tape player, something a lot of you guys never heard of.
Nobody ever showed me or told me anything about hunting predators and because I'm stupid, it took me almost three years before I killed my first coyote. Of course, I didn't realize that you could not sit around in the middle of the day for five minutes, and not know where to set up or what to look for. I might as well have been hunting Bigfoot, for all the things I did wrong, coupled with the fact that I was actually hunting something else I knew something about, and only tried a hand call when there was a slim chance of success. Also, I didn't know how to call, nobody did. But, that was part of the learning curve. A learning curve that you guys can't even see from where you are today; but a few hunters in eastern states might have some concept of what I mean.
All that is my way of saying that you fellas have it made. It's real easy to do; the whole enchillada is laid out for you and it doesn't take thirty years to get pretty good at it. People have not always been free with information, like it is now. The basics are well understood but they have not always been well understood.
You know something funny? We didn't have cell phones, back then! And my color TV had Vacuum tubes! What a joke!
Good hunting. LB
edit: TRnCO. No, it wouldn't work nearly as well, and don't you think it might have occured to us several decades ago, if it did?
[ September 11, 2005, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Noel Brandon
Knows what it's all about
Member # 697
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posted September 11, 2005 07:37 PM
Do you think that dead coyotes in the bed of the truck provide any cover or attractant scent? Do any of you using scents have any data or recollection of your scents working better later into the night and the coyotes stack up?
Posts: 21 | From: Renton WA | Registered: Sep 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 11, 2005 07:43 PM
TR,
Ask Quinton and Danny Gevara that last question. LOL
On several occasions, the aforementioned one in particular, I have demonstarted the benefit of aeresolizing diluted urine by first positioning myself forty to fifty paces upwind of my student(s), holding up the bottle with the top removed ("Can you smell this?" "Hell no." snicker and look at each other like I'M the idiot) then replace the top on the bottle, pump 4-5 rounds of mist into the air and wait for the show. About five seconds later, snicker-snicker turns to cough-wheeze-cough-gag-"Holy shit, what is that crap! Man, where's some water?" -spit- swear-repeat.
The only thing I like better than seeing a downwind coyote's response to the mist is seeing the reaction of a true skeptic when the mist hits his nose.
Wal Mart spray bottle - 0.98
3 ounces of filtered coyote pee mixed with enough water to fill bottle - 0.50
The look on Mr I've-seen-it-all's face when he sucks in a snootful of mist and all the air is torn from his lungs - Priceless
[ September 11, 2005, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted September 11, 2005 07:51 PM
OK, so what keeps the smell from disappating before Mr./Mrs. coyote shows up. How often do you have to "mist"? I don't doubt for a mintue that mist will indeed put out more "stink" for a few moments, than an open bottle, but doesn't it dissapate quickly? If not, why not?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted September 11, 2005 07:52 PM
I agree Leonard, you guys sure had your work cut out for ya. The internet sure helps to get the word out. There isnt much you cant find anymore. Sure wish I had it when I first started. Would have saved me alot of time and effort. Me and my dad hunted alot growing up. We had a low success rate, partly because all we used were bows. Sure glad we switched to rifles. That will up your success rate in a hurry. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Todd
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Texas Predator Pursuit videos
110 hunts on 2 DVD's
www.texaspredatorpursuit.com
Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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InjunJoe
unknown comic
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posted September 11, 2005 08:01 PM
I bought some Tinks Fox P thinking it would make a coyote come in faster to run off the fox. So far I hav'nt been attacked.
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted September 11, 2005 08:12 PM
Interesting subject, wish I knew more about it.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted September 11, 2005 08:19 PM
Leonard. I feel what you are saying. When we started out it did not matter if you were filthy rich are dirt poor, because there was nothing to be bought. You either thought it up and made it or did with out. We could not pay our dues, because there was no one to pay them to. At least you lived in California which I considered Mecca in the sixties. I waited every month for Jim Doughtry(sp) article to come out in Guns magazine so I could find out what you guys out there were doing. Living down hear in the swamp country it was 20 years before I herd someone besides myself blow a call in front of me. The Fox hound guys cut my tires, and then one night two truck loads of grown Men pulled up and beat the hell out of a 18 year old kid for calling "There Foxes". They left me on the side of that dirt rode. Finally at daylight a guy stopped by and helped me into my car. That Monday morning all of them had a gallon gas can tied to there kennel gate with a note saying "I will be back to night with a match".
Maybe we feel cheated by the fact that today you can purchase a e-caller, a video and a AR-15 on Thursday and be a Coyote killing machine by Saturday. Don't know about you, but I would not take anything for what I went through to learn what I know. Yes we all have opinions. I guess we are so adamant about what we believe because we paid dearly to form those opinions. When we share them maybe some folks don't understand what we paid for what we are giving away. I started 46 years ago with no answers, and here I am today with no answers, only a opinion.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 11, 2005 08:21 PM
Reading about it on the internet only helps, if you can find someone who ACTUALLY IS good at it, where you are.
There's as much mis-information, as there is information, sorting it out isn't easy.
A 1000 piece puzzle is really hard to put together, with 652 pieces and no box top. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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brad h
Knows what it's all about
Member # 57
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posted September 11, 2005 08:39 PM
Ronnie, it seems to me like there are no answers, only percentages.
What Q said is exactly how I see things concerning scent.
I've had a coyote 10 feet behind me, down wind, trying to figure out what I was...and with no cover scent. I was lucky enough to have accomplices there to observe the whole thing. That big male didn't spook and leave either.
That one occurrence suggested anything can happen with coyotes.
If a coyote hits a cover scent cone before hitting the human scent, he may stop, he may advance, he might even piss his pants and leave Dodge. This would be a case of having the cover scent separated by distance from the caller on a sponge or something, and not being worn. The idea would be for a coyote to go down wind, catch the cover scent cone and stop without detecting human scent.
Would a coyote continue down wind to cover his bases? Probably not, but I bet some would.
I don't use cover scents but I know there are rare occurrences that a coyote will continue to advance because of it. They're so few between I don't see it as worth my trouble.
Brad
Posts: 346 | From: Glendive MT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 11, 2005 08:50 PM
Wow I go out to a movie and come back to a great discussion in progress. I want to take more time to think about what some are saying and respond as best I can, probably tomorrow morning.
Let me throw out one bone for you though. Does the coyote who smells the "mist" coyote respond because he is responding to a curiosity or territorial instinct? Does his desire to run off another coyote in his territory override his fear of the human smell that is present, if the statements that he can not be fooled are accurate?
I am aware that many a coyote has died trying to threaten Hog Dogs with humans in plain sight. Is this the phenomenom that would make a coyote come in to a misting so much more successfully.
For the record I have never believed that simple urine of any kind on it's own will eliminate the human odor. It is obvious that Leonards mist does something benefitial (mask or diminish?)so what is it?
[ September 12, 2005, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 12, 2005 12:00 AM
It seems to confuse the coyote. He circles downwind for some reason? Maybe suspicion, maybe he is timid, who knows the reason?
But, if you are sending enough mist down wind, as I have said many times, you can actually see this stuff floating downstream and bumping into trees and brush and grass; in short coating everything with real liquid molecules, not just an odor from a bottle.
This is strong powerful scent, not a casual smell wafting in the breeze. It is a sensation that grabs a coyote by the throat, (figuratively speaking) and he has to check up, even for the briefest moment and blink and stare in the direction of the source. They do this, no argument. It's not going to happen if you don't spray until you determine that he is going downwind and break out the bottle for a couple of squirts. Done correctly, you should squirt a couple shots with every other 360º turn of the light, the whole stand, whether you think you are going to need it or not. Spot light in one hand and the spray in the other, because night hunting is the very best situation for misting, it is much more effective at night than daylight hunting.
I have read here that it's too much bother for just a couple extra animals. That's up to you. But it should be good for perhaps a couple extra animals per night; the difference between 5 and 7, or 8 and 10. Maybe the difference between 1 and three? Who needs that, right? Yeah, I do!
As I have said many times, this seems to be a difficult concept to grasp for some people, and others maybe do not give it a fair chance?
Danny is such a whimp. He wrote previously in this thread that he doesn't know anything about it and that's absurd. I will bet that he has used mist for at least twenty-five years, minimum! Everyone he knows, uses mist. Everyone in every club I have belonged to, uses mist. The practice apparently has not caught on too far east of us? Probably because they have not witnessed the results which are truly a matter of, seeing is believing.
But, it costs me nothing, if nobody believes it, or tries it, or discounts it. There are, as I said, thousands of night hunters here on the west coast that will shake their heads and smile.
You guys want to conceed 10%, 15% of your animals, that's fine by me. Just let me clarify one thing. Misting is, by far, a lot more effective while night hunting because so many more coyotes circle on you, *at night than on day stands.
Good hunting. LB
edit *ask me why?
[ September 12, 2005, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted September 12, 2005 12:18 AM
TR,i don't think any of us would set on a stand long enough for a good mist to dissapate.Skunk,fox,coyote and other animal urins will last for many hours and some for days and even weeks.Its at its strongest when you first put it down but it can last for days after you left.
Gerald,my answere to TR,brings a question to mind.Lets say we find a good stand location.We are sure coyotes are using the area,so we put down mist and no coyotes show up that day.We know this stand has to be good so we return a few days later.In the time period that we were gone the coyotes has found our misting spot.We go back and re mist and set down.Since the coyotes already know that smell is there,wouldn't they pick you right out of it?What i'm getting at,the scent would no longer work because they know that smell is there.
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 12, 2005 04:25 AM
In an effort to not beat a dead horse too long I am not going to add anymore about coverscents per say but I am interested in a couple of other concepts including the misting concept.
I wonder if misting a Skunk odor would be useful? If I could devise a bottle that mixed the two components of Tex's Skunk Coverscent as I sprayed, it might lay down a pretty good cover for me along with some coyote urine as well. Combine that with all of the soaps, clothes washes and powders from Hunter Specialties and I might be invisible to the coyote....and then probably still miss him with my shooting ability or lack there of.
I have a friend that swears by this use of odors. I have not tried it but he swears that it is a killer for coyote hunting. It involves a practice mentioned earlier as it pertains to a scent cone.
He takes a 5 gallon bucket of the afterbirth material from a newborn calf and places a sizable portion of it to the right or left of his calling position on the downwind side. Maybe about 50 feet either way and then calls from the middle. It is his contention that when the coyote hits the first waft of this highly protien rich material they will turn to approach that smell totally stopping any attempt to get directly downwind of where the sound is coming from.
This what I had in mind when I catagorized a smell as an attractant. Any of you ever tried for that effect with this or any other smell? Maybe a dead rabbit would work?
[ September 12, 2005, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted September 12, 2005 08:37 AM
Gerald,
If you want to see some territorial responses, with reaction to dogs, you need my new video. Or ask one of these guys that has their copy.
On another note, as far as attraction. I have trapped alot and venture to guess that many others on here have also. Some of the long distance calls that I use (like O'Gormans LDC) is quite possibly the rankest smelling stuff ever, and on snow I have never seen it pull a coyote in more than about 50 yards from the downwind. It seems like if they are much farther than that, they just blow on by. I'm sure there are cases of it pulling them farther, but I haven't seen it. I would venture though, that if you were to mix a little LDC in with your thinned urine, it may help the misting process.
Jay,
I stand by my previous post and always will. There is no ALWAYS and NEVER with coyotes. I would have to say "they usually stop, they usually do." LOL!
[ September 12, 2005, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
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Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 12, 2005 11:26 AM
As far as mixing the type of "mist" that I use, because I go to the trouble of filtering it, to keep the sprayer from clogging, I would be reluctant to mix with lure, and also from a storage standpoint. The way I make this stuff up, it is about 75% rabbit and 25% coyote; and then I filter it and cut it in half with water. It's good for next season, if you have any left over.
Now, I have seen some people use skunk PEE, rather than essence, that and (I kid you not) bottled clam juice seems to work very well for my purpose. I can't really put a label on it, cover or attractant or curosity scent; maybe a little of all three?
Just so long as I get a shot, that's all I ask.
BTW, somebody asked about running shots. That's a last desperate measure, at close range. People that bang away at moving animals, in the dark are wasting their time. (excepting shotgun opportunities)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 12, 2005 12:33 PM
Interesting discussion.
When I first started callin, 2-yrs ago. I took along a bottle of [Red Fox urin] spray. Did I believe it would "cover my scent"...Nope.
I thought if a young coyote shown up, that never smelled [human] the urin might "drop his guard" & draw him in.
As for "covering" your scent. IMO, you'd have to be [encased] in a Class-A Hazmat suit, ie;[fully encapsulating]. To fully conceal your scent.
We have a 10yr old German Shephard. Three yrs ago, he keep scenting a [small-focal] area on my wife's chest. A couple of months later, a lump appeared [Breast Cancer]. He did this again, 1 1/2yrs ago,[Breast Cancer]again.
IMO, canines whom have "scented a human" can at a minimum, pick [PPM]part-per-million, of human scent out of air.
The human body is constantly emitting/shedding
"vapors" & "chuncks" ie; sweat, skin-cells, hair, ect.
So does "misting help" I say yah, sometimes. Depends on the coyote. But I quit taking my urin along
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 12, 2005 01:21 PM
Hey Cal I would love to see your video. I love watching that kind of action. Email me how I can buy one and I'll get a check in the mail.
2dogs, your comment about how good a dogs nose is, is interesting. My friend Tex, I mentioned earlier was a Phd in Chemistry and his specialty was that very aspect of study. He could isolate and identify down to 3 parts per million. If my memory serves me good I think Texas A&M had studied deer piss down to three parts per million and could not isolate the pheromone present in a does's estrus urine. That fact leads me to disbelieve any companies claim of 100 % pheromone for Doe in Heat products. I do not anybody even knows what the pheromone is yet.
If a dogs is at 1 part per million, then maybe the deer is at two or right there with the dog. Interesting.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 12, 2005 02:22 PM
There are a lot of things that might not be too well understood about scent. All well and good, one or two parts per million, but look at sharks and especially salmon, returning to the stream where they were hatched three years later, by smell. Now, that is amazing.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 12, 2005 02:50 PM
Another stick, in the cogs of understanding.
Dad had a Walker hound [Pokey], heckuva trail hound. He could pick up a coyote's scent on a very old[hrs] track in the snow, quite often.
Except when the humidity was high & it was windy out. Then ya coulda hit'em with a [wet-coyote]. Et, He wouldn't of known, what it was.
I wonder [which] a canine "picks-up" or "decifers" more readily....vapor's or partical's ![[Confused]](confused.gif) .
I'm thinking, it depends on [ppm] of either. With humidity & wind speed, thrown into the mix.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 12, 2005 04:16 PM
Amazing how fast this place can go from 'frat boy nonsense' to serious. Part of the charm around here, I think.
Got out this a.m. for a few hours of calling. Archery deer, bear & cougar are open. Set up facing into a very slight breeze. The problem was, every few minutes the very slight breeze would go dead calm and then the air would ooze back 180 degrees for a short while until the very slight breeze would return.
About 20 minutes into the stand, while the breeze was in my favor, I had a deer at aprox. 200 yards start snorting.
This is a case where I think that cover scent and/or misting could have been useful. The deer wasn't getting enough of my scent to spook but it was getting enough that it wouldn't come in.
So.....who sales "Fawn in Distress Urine"??
[ September 12, 2005, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 12, 2005 10:15 PM
A 10 - 15% increase of zero, is still zero. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Magic mist cannot create coyotes where there are none. 
Krusty
[ September 12, 2005, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 13, 2005 10:42 AM
Krusty,
Can you ride your bike over to other side of the mountain? I hear the coyotes are thick as fleas over there.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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