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Author
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Topic: How Long?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 02, 2005 08:50 PM
It's just one of those things, Vic. I can't tell you how long to make your stands, or where to set up, you just have do do what feels right.
Same with the spray. The more I see a pattern, like they all seem to go downwind, that's when I'm getting that stuff out there as much as possible, at least a squirt a minute, maybe two a minute?
Seems like a small nasal spray bottle would last a couple stands? I usually have more than one. You have to clean them every day, run a little warm water through them, or they will clog up, for sure. The finer the mist, the better, but they clog easier, and they freeze easier, so I keep the bottles in a pocket, not on my belt, like higgins.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31622 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted November 02, 2005 09:17 PM
Thanks LionHo, I hope this isn’t because I liked your use of the word stubborn. I just liked it and picked up on it. (I have a tendency to do that) One of these days I will work up the intestinal fortitude to go out and try to stub my toe on a pumpkin. LOL
This will be the third season that I have not used an off the shelf call. I use an assortment of closed reed calls from the shops of Lance Homman, Sly Dog, Kevin Lukins, Jason LaMarr and Rick Robinson. I have also started to take a shine to an open reed from seeinspots. This time of year I play mostly the bunny blues but can manipulate some of those calls to make some bird noises as well for later in the season.
I didn’t buy the most expensive unit out there but not the cheapest either. It is a FoxPro 416 with remote I have been using the sounds that the ravens, hawks and magpies seem to like best, snowshoe hare (drives the ravens nuts), rabbit #1, and Aggr Jack. I approach the stand the same as I would if I were hand calling, generally I set the call 30-40 yards away generally angling into the wind at about a 45 degree angle. I let it play continuously because that seems to be what the guys who I have come to respect do. I ordered a cable this week so I could add some sounds that I produced that I would have a little more confidence in.
I have called 3 critters with it. The first was a coyote that I described above, had I had the same response while hand calling I would have thought someone was here yesterday and got busted, or he had come a running in to a real situation and promptly got his backside handed to him by a more dominant coyote, or got beat nearly to death by the wings of a golden eagle or something along those lines. Then Sunday I brought up the second coyote, he showed more enthusiasm and I’m more encouraged. Yesterday, I saw a grey colored figure moving slowly just below a ridge line never to be seen again. I don’t know for sure because it was a long way out but it acted like bobcat and that is what I’m going to call it mostly to keep me encouraged about this call. Officially it is unknown but I sure hope it wasn’t a coyote responding like that.
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 03, 2005 01:04 AM
It took a while to get to the specifics of the original question, but as I understand it; you are a hand caller that is starting to use a Foxpro, and are not too sure if it fits your style, based on a handfull of responses?
First of all, I want you to read my lips. Electronic calls work. Of that, there is no doubt. Maybe you just need to find a technique that works for you, but that small sample of stands won't tell you anything. You seem to be very negative about a slow, cautious response. It is possible that when you get the "hard chargers" you talked about, you have many opportunities to kill them coming and going, due to the lack of significant cover. Yeah, it's great when they basically have nowhere to hide. Some places, all they need to do is duck a couple feet into brush and you will never see them again. In that type of stuff, a hard charger is the most difficult coyote to handle.
Here, let me add a paragraph from your email:
quote:
I threw howling out of some of my stands that require the coyotes to run me over based on 4 consecutive coyotes that came in slow a cautious, I dropped the howls and they seemed to be running me over again.
When you howl on a stand, a slow cautious approach is completely normal. They also might take a little while longer to show up, but when they do, it will not be like pass shooting ducks. You will probably get a makeable high percentage standing shot. But, by your comments; four consecutive coyotes that came in cautious was enough for you to quit, and that isn't the whole ball game, or a fair trial.
I can tell you this much. The big boys use everything. They use howls, they use electronics and they use hand calls, and might use all of it on the same stand? Or, some combination of the mix on every stand. I don't think it comes down to open reed or closed reed hand calls. That is a good start, but it won't get them all.
In places like Kansas, the coyotes are scared to death of a Foxpro and a good hand call comes in handy. Other places and other scenarios, maybe you need it, but a hand call will kill you, if you have to use it all weekend.
Now, where you mention that people you respect are telling you to use your Foxpro "continuously", well, as far as I'm concerned, that's the best, for a good response. As usual there are nuances, but I would be careful about switching sounds unless you have a hang up. Learning how to use the volume will help, as well. Either leave it alone, or max it out or whatever you like, but you will learn when to use it and when you probably shouldn't mess with it.
When I am on a weekend hunt, no sleep from Thursday until Sunday night, we probably use electronics at least 75% of the time, resorting to hand calls at specific situations. If hand calls were the total answer, do you think most contest hunters would use them?
The reason they use a machine is because they call predators every bit as well as a hand call.
But the real reason is because of the tactical advantage. The animal does not focus on the hunter as the source of the distress. The hunter is not out of breath for a difficult shot. The hunter has no distraction and can completely concentrate on incoming animals. Or, if you like, BOTH hunters can be completely ready for whatever happens.
So, if you like hand calling to the exclusion of electronics and would rather not howl, that's your choice. But that stuff is just as effective as distress hand calls, and has some hard to argue advantages.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31622 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted November 03, 2005 09:44 AM
Leonard, I have not completely dropped howling, but I have in situations when the area is flat and seeing 100 yards or more down wind is rare. Yes, I’m a little negative about a slow and cautious response early in the season but I expect the chargers to drop off in November for the most part. That same response later in the season wouldn’t have me questioning what is going on to the extent that I am now. Most likely I’m dealing with a stand selection or set up issue or perhaps volume the way the birds act the sounds should work. Wiley E said something along the lines to Krusty that you can’t learn anything from a blank stand. So all I have is a small sampling of responses to base anything on, but I will get more. My expectations may be too high and I’m overanalyzing again. For me there is nothing like seeing a coyote charge in put the brakes on when he thinks he is about there and stare at you then their eyes seem to dilate what happens after that doesn’t really matter to me on most days. Heather usually takes the shot unless I am between her and the coyote. Thanks for your response and your patience.
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 03, 2005 10:08 AM
I think that Foxpro is messing you up, get rid of it. I don't need it either, but I'll give you a couple hundred $ Canadian for it, just to help you out. Let me know?
Good luck, LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31622 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 03, 2005 11:08 AM
I'm constantly changing how I call. Be it a homemade ecaller, then change from tape to mp3, change from 1 mp3 to an mp3 with SD card port, to putting the caller a distance from me and creating "playlists" with a series of sounds and gaps setup for calling that time of year that the ecaller plays through on "autopilot", etc etc etc. I have a new 22-250, have a new predator supreme decoy, going to stop using the ecaller exclusively and get back to some hand calling, start howling correctly, mix hand calls in with the ecaller, etc etc etc....
You'd think I was a new caller with all the new stuff I want to try, but I'm just always trying to improve and compulsively coming up with new stuff to try.
But.... I try to make one change at a time. Then if it works or doesn't work I have a good indication it was that one change. If I change a bunch of things at once and am not successful I don't know which change it was that is messing me up. And vise versa, if I'm all the sudden calling coyotes like gang busters and I've made a bunch of changes I don't know which change is working to call in a bunch more coyotes. And with multiple changes they can always cancel each other out.
I've found over the years I'm much more successful if I have a baseline of what works, then modify it slowly once change at a time. I now have a list of things that work and don't work for me. So when things aren't going good I fall back on what has worked in the past, regroup, and move forward again slowly. Not swaying too far from the track of what's worked.
As far as how long do I "test" something new, it depends on how hopeful or sure I am that what I'm testing will work.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 04, 2005 05:49 PM
Bryan, don't listen to Leonard. He's a bad man. It sounds like the problem with your FoxPro is power fluctuations in the hydraulic output circuits have degraded the anti-matter calibration, causing color variation in the camo pattern. Send the unit to me and I will repair it for you free of charge, plus test it for you for a couple of seasons to make sure it's right.
I still can't belive that Leonard would try to take advantage of you like that.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7672 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted November 05, 2005 09:47 AM
LOL! Actually I’m all messed up anyway and I don’t think it has anything to do with the FoxPro. LOL I know I’m whining hell I should be happy that I’ve seen 3 critters while using it. An example of my messed up mentality, when I play black jack I like to split say a pair of kings and tell the dealer that I want 2 cards face down regardless of what the house has showing. LOL Win or lose it is worth it to see the look the dealer gives me, sometimes the pit boss. Of course it is only good the first time. LOL
Leonard if the offer still stands this time next year I’m going to have to insist on Pesos. LOL
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 05, 2005 10:21 AM
Oh yeah, offer's good indefinitely.
Geeze, I'm beginning to wonder about y'all? You probably hit 16 when the dealer shows a deuce? If you play that way at the Bellagio, you are going to drop some serious pocket change. Don't forget, it's all a sucker bet.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31622 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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