|
Author
|
Topic: Locating or not locating before you hunt?
|
J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
|
posted March 31, 2007 06:12 AM
Randy made a very good point as to when your locating coyotes and moving in on them right away. It is not a good idea to move in when you have just alerted them to your presence. All eyes and ears. Move in from a different direction then where you just howled from or pick another day. I have located coyotes and then came back a little later during the same day and shot them. Rich H. says he doesn't locate at certain times because the coyotes may just be moving through which is true, but if you know the area you can pretty well figure out where they are going to be later on. That brings up another another topic about patterning coyotes, but I'm staying away from that one. I do believe it is possible in certain situations.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted March 31, 2007 08:48 AM
Actually we attempt to locate only in areas that we have never called before, that looks promising but we haven't investigated on foot.
I always try to set up on sign. If there are lots of tracks and scat in the general area we can make high confidence stands. We never attempt to locate in the areas we normally call because of the present dynamics that have resulted from a twelve year drought. We know what attracts coyotes in these areas, where they will hunt, feed and wander and where they are likely to spend the day. Locating by howling isn't neccessary and it becomes a liability under these conditions because we will put the coyotes on high alert, and they will be more apt to detect us as we setup and less inclined to reveal themselves when we call.
Joe Melton told me that when he called with Scott near Yuma that Scott would voice howl and the coyotes would answer. That impressed me because it is very difficult to get a vocal response from coyotes in most of Az. during daylight. They will seldom answer us if we are stationary. If we drive slowly toward their suspected location and group yip howl we have better than fair success.
IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 31, 2007 09:36 AM
It's the same old story, Rich. If howling to locate, you had better be ready to deal with a visiter....therefore it's mostly counterproductive, if you are just parked and listening for a reply. Also, I agree with your thinking, better to set up on recent sign than to alert the neighborhood. Additionally, as I have said many times, it is difficult to howl, most anywhere in Arizona, that a coyote will not hear you, so what's the point?
I find howling to locate to be much more effective in wide open places, such as Nevada, and they seem to be a lot more vocal because they are spread out more. My example, used many times, is consider a twenty mile valley. Howling can be very useful in determining general locations, at any given moment. Why cold call sixteen miles of nonproductive stands when they are all bunched up at the north end, as a for instance?
The downside is, for me, often times there is no road in the direction of the response? You don't leave the vehicle and head off in that trackless desert chasing a response to a lone howl. They would more than likely detect your presence long before you are able to setup an effective stand. Walking on gravel and rocks, not very quiet, no cover, to speak of; stunted sage. Know what I mean, Vern?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted March 31, 2007 09:37 AM
"it is very difficult to get a vocal response from coyotes in most of Az. during daylight."
--------------------------------
Rich H,
That is interesting. I had several vocal responses during mid-day while calling down around Wilcox that time. That caused me to believe that Arizona coyotes were more vocal than the ones around here.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted March 31, 2007 12:24 PM
Leonard Rich H. I agree with both of you when you state that when hunting in country you have had good success in over the years locating is not near as important.Rich H. ever have a ride along wonder why the hell ya just slammed on the brakes smacked their head on the dash and you are looking at scat and or tracks on the trail or road then panning the existing countryside like your looking for Waldo!Bet ya have or something similar.
I do have the advantage of being out in the area I hunt all year round and some of my so called sweet spots for fur season happen because of hunting pressure whether from the houndsmen or the bird and deer hunters, weather etc. driving them in. This doesn't happen at the same time every year and sometimes not at all.I have many opportunities to check certain areas for numbers etc. and when it all comes together hunt it. It just makes my hunting far more profitable.
I locate alot,i mean alot but not always when hunting coyotes,25000 or more miles a year in 2 millon acres, I'm checkin honeyholes and finding bonus groups I never knew existed in some of the wierdest places. I get asked many times from callers where would be a good place to go, close to town, public land etc. Many times you can let them in on a bunch tucked way back in somewhere.
I see we are starting to get into what sounds are being used, I thought this might be one of the first questions.
Secret sounds, wink wink ,right Wiley?
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
|
posted March 31, 2007 03:09 PM
From what I'm reading , you guys down South don't don't howl to call call coyotes to the gun. Am I correct? Evidently you have soo many coyotes distress calls is all you need.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 31, 2007 04:39 PM
That's a fair statement. Not a hard and fast rule, but a man could do fine, not howling at all, some days.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich Higgins
unknown comic
|
posted March 31, 2007 10:29 PM
I howl on every stand.
IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted April 03, 2007 07:05 AM
I can see the argument of hunting in texas or AZ because of the sheer numbers down there but i don't see how anyone can argue in the north and west about Locating. If for no other reason it makes the hunter as efficient as possible (less stands of no coyotes within hearing range)
Don't get me wrong i have had a FEW times coyotes bust me from locating but the coyotes locating has got me outweigh that number by a long shot.
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted April 03, 2007 07:35 AM
I like to look for sign more than locate vocally. They are usually relieving themselves in that location for a reason. Scat has meaning. Either that or I just ask around if anyone has been hearing or seeing them.
To me it would be counterproductive to use sounds to locate that I am trying to get them to respond to in a hunting situation.
[ April 03, 2007, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted April 03, 2007 07:56 AM
Smithers, locating to me is a tool to gather info on locations and number of coyotes along with visual signs of coyotes being present. I use locating more in new areas that I am goimg to hunt that day or the near future or check areas that not always have coyotes in them during fur season. It's not concrete it doesn't mean I won't hunt an area just because they don't answer this particular time.
If you are only going to be in an area for a time or two during fur season and in your area it's a no brainer where the coyotes will be it may not be the thing for you to do.
I have 10-20 square miles of rolling pastures with numerous drainages cutting through them. It gives me advantage on where and how to work the coyotes, wind etc.
I not only locate before light, but also at times all day long.Glassing and listening.
It can be counterproductive like any other sound in a coyote world at times. In this sport we love if it was black and white and easy to do would we continue to do it? I like being outsmarted every now and then it keeps my competitive drive going. If that fire ever dwindles I'll buy a lab and go bird huntin!!!!
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted April 03, 2007 09:47 AM
Like Leonard said about Nevada,and for me alot of Utah too,if I didn't howl to locate coyotes I would really be putting myself at a disadvantange as far as calling numbers of coyotes.Those areas of NV./UT. are HUGE and without the aid of a Siren/or Howler for locating it would be almost impossible to get the most out of your calling.Plus it also helps me to know how to approach my stand to put me at the advantage.There are some areas mostly farm areas that I won't howl because I usually have a pretty good idea where I want to call from,but again not always.I think for ME the pro's of locating usually always outweigh the con's.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted April 03, 2007 11:40 AM
I'm a little different, Chad. I scout and I base my efforts on places I have hunted before, but I don't do much "locating" per se, unless I'm drawing blanks? Then still, I run the risk of an approach that I was not prepared for. So, what I do is set up and make a stand and be ready for the silent approach. If I get a distant vocal response (not guaranteed, for sure) then, (and if there is a road heading in that direction)....I will head over that way and make a couple stands.
I also don't see much value in "locating" the night before day hunting, or in mid day "locating" prior to night hunting. This is because I believe there are (or could be) miles separating bedding areas and hunting grounds.
I'm thinking specifically of western Utah, Nevada situations.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I should also mention that I'm the last person to hear a distant reply, my hearing is so bad.
[ April 03, 2007, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted April 03, 2007 01:52 PM
Certainly, the fact that getting a vocal response out here is like pulling teeth on an alligator, is one of the MAIN reasons I don't locate much.
I do get a vocal response more reliably May thru the beginning of August when it does me no good.
IP: Logged
|
|
2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
|
posted April 03, 2007 01:54 PM
[Travel patterns] around here; Around 3-5 days apart generally. Sometimes a tad over a wk. Before the locals will work the same trail[fenceline, creek or draw].
Seen a nomad, sleep[restlessly, I might add] in almost the same exact spot repeatidly for a tad over a wk's time. this focal spot was around 200yrds or so away from the main bedding area of a local pack. Couldn't stalk very close to him, hearing like an owl.
As for scat. Could be a [nomad] with the #hits for all I know. Doesn't tell me anything, other than a coyote took a dump[s].
I look for coyote.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted April 03, 2007 02:06 PM
You usually don't sit down next to a turd and call. I look for a concentration tracks and scat in an area before I call.
[ April 03, 2007, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
IP: Logged
|
|
2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
|
posted April 03, 2007 02:15 PM
Open rolling cropland, little cover; Come late Fall. Et after late January on. Most [ALL] of them are either in cover or on the fringe of cover. Virtually [NONE] are bedded out in the open area's away from cover.
When I do call, it's by cover. Most [ALL] will bed around the center[1/2 mile] of a 1-square mile section. I don't go any farther than a 1/4 mile in[max] when I do call. Odd's are their watching/listening regardless.
Even while sleeping[head tucked], I've watched them many times. Often I'll see "one" of their ears rotate to the faintest far away noise. Light sleepers.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted April 03, 2007 02:24 PM
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted April 03, 2007 02:49 PM
quote:
I have learned that if i howl and get a response to the howl i can move in on him and set up to my advantage and hopefuly get him to come in. This willbe one of my maine goals for next season, Howl, locate and then take it to him.....
I agree with that method and thats my point to locating making the hunter more efficient
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
|
posted April 03, 2007 06:59 PM
I've watched a bedded coyote stare @ a distant stimuli for close to an hr. W/O turning it's head. Complete focus.
If that stimuli moves. Then they'll stare/look in that[stimuli's] direction for 10-20 minutes or so. Until, they believe it's moved on or doesn't pose a threat. From what I've seen.
If I did, use a howl to "locate". I sure wouldn't go into a section from the direction that I howled. As they might see/hear me slink in.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted April 03, 2007 07:01 PM
TA, the method you describe is not actual locating in it's truest sense.
If I am calling and have a group or 2 light up I will usually roll in their direction right away.
If I have a single reply I will sit tight. Why? In my experience a group will not usually respond physically. Many more times a single howler or double will show.
IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted April 03, 2007 09:30 PM
TA wrote quote:
I have learned that if i howl and get a response to the howl i can move in on him and set up to my advantage and hopefuly get him to come in.
Smithers how is this not locating?
I see your point of if you get a response when you're on stand YOU will move in but if you do a howl on stand or if you do a howl or hit the siren locating and then move in the same conclusion occurs so isn't it the same?
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
|
posted April 04, 2007 03:48 AM
Another thing about walking into a section. A coyote will "lay" with it's back towards a prevailing wind. Face/ears facing downwind. I've only "EVER" seen "one", laying facing a wind.
If their just "resting" not balled-up sleeping. Head raised...they'll be scanning 180 degrees downwind. Occasionally looking upwind over their shoulder.
Obviously they hear best up/down wind. Their hearing is reduced, crosswind.
[ April 04, 2007, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
albert
Knows what it's all about
Member # 98
|
posted April 04, 2007 05:53 AM
My 2 cent's on locating. It works. I often hunt the same area every year. So I think I have fair idea were the coyotes may be. In these circumstances I seldom locate ahead of time. What I do is try and locate at the end of a stand. Especially if I have made a couple of quick stands first thing in the morning with no response. The earlier in the day the better. I am often able to plan my next couple of stands based on what responce I get. On a good day you keep on rollong with the information gathered in this fashion.
If this technique is working on a particular day you will kill a lot of coyotes.
--------------------
for what it's worth, eh!
Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted April 04, 2007 08:22 AM
NDcoyote, the title of the thread is Locating Before You Hunt. Which is what I believe most people think of when they think of locating.
Howling and getting a response while in the midst of a hunt and moving in on them to me is, I suppose, technically locating but not what I think of right away. Pre-hunt calling and locating with no weapon so you can set up at a later time is what comes to mind first, for me. Maybe it should have been titled Scouting/ Locating or not before a hunt.
The pros and cons of locating before a hunt and methods used is the issue. It is just common sense that if you are armed and in the midst of a hunt you are really just Calling the animal. If you are out to locate them you want a vocal response so you can find their position in relation to yours. The cons of this are that they may show up and not respond vocally and you may have blown an opportunity.
If it is a situation like Leonard and UTcaller describe then maybe that is best or only way with the vast amount of country to be covered. But dollars to donuts they are armed at the time and I would assume they are ready to shoot if the opportunity arises.
[ April 04, 2007, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
