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Author
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Topic: Mouth calls Versus E callers
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 13, 2008 02:39 PM
TL: "You really are running for sheriff!!"
If you saw my belly you'd sure think so. Haha!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 13, 2008 05:01 PM
Scientifically speaking, Mr. Scott Huber, that was a fantastic post!
The others in the bunch were good as well but yours SHINES! Sincerely.
Content: A++
Delivery: A++
Sheriff! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 13, 2008 05:49 PM
I agree with, Smithers. Extraordinary.
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 13, 2008 06:55 PM
Allright, things are getting way too cozy here. A++ on two fronts???? I'm circling down wind.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 13, 2008 07:14 PM
Hell, I'll give you a thumbs up, too.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 13, 2008 08:19 PM
Here is the main problem that I, personally, have when using an e-caller. Mind you I own a couple and use them sparingly, one larger unit and a smaller 5 sound deal.
A nearly infinite number of sounds at the touch of a button is wonderful and a curse. With 100- 200 sounds to choose from it is hard to develop a "routine", for me. It takes strict discipline not to start tapping buttons when something doesn't show after 6 minutes. I don't have that discipline down with an e-caller, yet, as I do with a hand call.
The noise issue is a big one with me. When I can hear a "buzz" from twenty yards. Something's gotta give. The animal can hear it 3 times as far if not more.
Natural sounding coyote vocals are nearly non-existant unless you have a WT. But with a WT you have 100 different versions of the same basic howl to choose from. How does that happen? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I realize the fault mainly lies with me and my feeling that the next sound on the list will certainly work better than the current one playing.
I put off purchasing one as long as I could. 2 1/2 seasons with one and 1 1/2 with the other and I am still learning how to best utilize them. Hunting alone is the reason I purchased one and using it as a "hunting partner" is not as simple as I had thought. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
[ August 13, 2008, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 14, 2008 11:42 AM
E-callers, when used with a motion decoy, are a tremendous aid in seducing a cat or an insecure coyote to expose itself in thick cover.
I place the combo in an upwind area of a small clearing so that the coyote that needs to see it or wind it must enter an open area to do so.
Like this:
When they see the deke it will often pull them right in like this:
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted August 14, 2008 12:20 PM
WileyE- that was the best post I've seen on a predator hunting forum in six months.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted August 14, 2008 12:43 PM
Sultan Higgins,
I have never used a decoy before. There seems to be a gazillion and one choices,brands and types.
And they very greatly in price.
How did that Minaska decoy stack up against others you have used? What does it weigh?
What decoy would you recommend?
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted August 14, 2008 12:51 PM
Randy R, it is not just in kentucky where coyotes kill deer or antelope it happens right here in western SD.
The cheyanne breaks have plenty of magpies and crows for that matter and they will signal to coyotes of a food source of deer carcass delight. I have seen a groups of magpies really work a deer carcass over in a few days time and those repsectable coyotes know what those magpie sounds are all about.Same with crows.
I have seen the evidance of both deer and antelope being killed and fed upon by coyotes as I'm sure you have as well. I had a goat kill 2 weeks ago the guy thought mt lion, looked it over and nope a family group of coyotes on a young antelope, slicked it up in a hurry. He was haying didn't see it one day and the very next, dead antelope strung about the prairie.On driving to inspect the carcass 3 crows came off of it.
Do I use this scene early summer? Nope, I use it in areas I know get more calling pressure and when it seems more natural for this type of scene to take place.
The ecaller has as many others stated the ability to disconnect us from the sound source be it 20 ft or 60+ yards or more. Realistic sounds are a bonus and having the ability to really change things up if needed are also a bonus. I have the self control to use what I know will work best in an area at that given time, but I'm also not afraid to experiment in the fall/winter with other sounds in areas that have had a few callers working it as well.I have a baby groundhog sound that works really well as a closer sound, I don't have groundhogs within 80 miles of me, but I don't know if the coyoes think of it as small coyote whimpers or another prey but I know it will call coyotes in an area void of groundhogs.
Being able to dictait alot of times the approach of those coyotes via e caller is something that can be very valuable and has helped me kill coyotes, when conditions where not ideal, versus mouth calls and maybe spooking the coyotes I needed away and giving them an education and making more work for me down the road.
I do use mouth calls and they have there place for sure, but I like the ability to move that sound away from my ambushing spot. Let them hone in on that sound being away from my position.
[ August 14, 2008, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 14, 2008 02:44 PM
Hey Mule, dang it, you guys were trying to stick a nickname on me so I tossed you Redfrog and a write a caption contest and you STILL stick one on me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I've played with a lot of decoys and some are definitely better than others. Cheap ones like a feather on a string work ok with a little breeze. Some airport gift shop battery powered toys are kinda fun to play with. The best in my opinion are the Whirling woodpecker and the quiver critter, both about 30 bucks. The very best one though is the Minaska Sidewinder. If those people fired me today I would still use and tell everyone it's the best. It has two motions... 180 degrees and random. Set on random it will drag a coyote or cat in by the eyeballs. Coyotes will lock onto this thing just like they do decoy dogs. Sometimes you can stand up and dance a little jig and they will ignore you. Kinda pricey at $100 but if you call thick cover it will pay for itself quickly.
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 14, 2008 02:50 PM
his is the Sidewinder adding movement to the decoy setup.
They work in open country also.. just aren't necessary
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MULE
Knows what it's all about
Member # 63
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posted August 14, 2008 03:10 PM
Rich,
Thanks for the info
I am curious as to why you say they are not of much value in open country?
Alot of my calling is done in places that are very,very open and its tough to conceal yourself.
I was thinking that maybe if the coyote was visually fixated on the decoy then it would be less likely to see me
Also do you have an estimate on the weight of that sidewinder? Alot of the places I call I walk from stand to stand as opposed to driving between stands. I'm getting old so I am always looking to shed weight I am carrying
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Kickin' it on the Steppes. Livin' in my Yurt
My Hockey Mom can beat up your Community Organizer
Posts: 334 | From: Ulan Bator | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 14, 2008 04:07 PM
quote:
Thanks for the info
I am curious as to why you say they are not of much value in open country?
Alot of my calling is done in places that are very,very open and its tough to conceal yourself.
I was thinking that maybe if the coyote was visually fixated on the decoy then it would be less likely to see me
Also do you have an estimate on the weight of that sidewinder? Alot of the places I call I walk from stand to stand as opposed to driving between stands. I'm getting old so I am always looking to shed weight I am carrying
Mule, I call with a camo net over me so it doesn't matter if I call from a plowed field(which I sometimes do) the coyotes still fixate on me and come on in, IF they are inclined to expose themselves. If they are not, then we move into their bedrooms in the heavy cover and the decoy does it's job.
I don't know the exact weight of the decoy. It feels like a couple of pounds. Much heavier at the end of a long day. A back pack for the call and deke and camera solves the problem. You can also get it as part of the Ultimate One. Check out the video clip.
http://www.minaskaoutdoors.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=10
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 14, 2008 04:25 PM
Here's something for you guys to think about within the discussion of educating coyotes to certain sounds. A number of towns in the west have a siren that goes off at 10:00PM each evening. In a number of cases, I have known of coyote dens within hearing distance of those town sirens. Although those sirens go off every evening and there is never a good or bad experience associated with it, these dens (adults and pups) would answer those sirens virtually every evening. Think about that in the realm of those who claim sirens are being abused. Sirens aren't necessarily being abused, sirens coming from roads preceeded by vehicle noise and followed with calling and shooting activities might be abused. Again it's the association to danger that creates the red flag as opposed to the siren itself. There's a lot we don't know guys.
Rich H.,
Very impressive photographs. You are an excellent photographer. I always enjoy the "coyotes in their natural habitat" pictures so much more than the "look at me" photos without scenery after the kill. If a fella is going to take a picture of dead coyotes, one might as well drag them to a place that showcases the habitat they were taken from. It sure makes a lot better picture.
Thanks jrb!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted August 14, 2008 05:15 PM
WileyE, to add to that, Steve Criner has some film footage he took while hunting here with me. It is of a coyote that we observed from a long distance. We never could get this coyote to respond to any type of calls(vocal or distress). We used the terrain and got in much closer. Again no responce from this coyote. A feed truck soon arrived and drove right past this coyote as it hid in the tall grass. After the rancher finished, he drove out past the same coyote. After he was gone, the coyote left and headed straight into the area that contained the yearlings being fed.
I know the particular cowboy and the ranch. I would wager that he feeds this group of cattle the same time every day, from the same truck. The coyote did not fear the truck(showed some caution), but accepted it as part of its environment. It appeared as if the coyote had patterned the rancher and had become conditioned to accept the trucks presence as none threatening. My guess would be if the particular rancher had showed up several hours later, or maybe even in a different truck, the coyotes behavior would have been much different.
FWIW, Geordie
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 14, 2008 08:29 PM
Yup Geordie, your calls may have been appealing but they weren't as appealing as the feed truck. This is why I harp on variables all the time. It's so easy to reach false conclusions for why a coyote reacts a certain way when there can be so many reasons for a particular reaction. Some of the fast buck artists in the trapping world do the same thing. They capitalize on the less informed because everyone is looking for a silver bullet solution to problems that are simply related to unpredictable coyote behavior and no fault of their own in many cases.
In many areas, coyotes follow tractors around because they usually don't associate tractors with danger. In the Conata Basin, they used to come to the sound of gunfire because it meant dead pr. dogs. Conditioned response! Food wins out over caution.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted August 19, 2008 01:26 PM
Rich, "if they fired you today you would still use the sidewinder"?
Are you on the Minaska payroll? LOL!
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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