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Author
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Topic: Volume and how to use it
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted March 11, 2010 07:13 PM
My meager observations.
Continuous prey distress can create hard chargers. Continuous calling coupled with loud volume can create drive-bys, especially when the coyote has come quite some distance and you have a limited area to kill him.
Sometimes the area has a lot to do with it.Coyote vocals/pup distress can create hard chargers in western Oklahoma or Nebraska. However the same sounds can have just the opposite effect in Missouri and Kansas. They slow the stand down and in some cases the pup distress can drive away a coyote that is all by himself. If there are two or more coyotes you can get a positve result in my area here in MO.
And even if you think you know when to hold-em and when to fold-em.
Using continuous calling, the call was muted when the coyote was first spotted at 300 yards. Only slowed to medium hard charge and Leonard shot him still coming. Note the caller.
Let the caller run on this coyote and she checked up on her own.Chip shot for Leonard. Go figure.
Randy
[ March 11, 2010, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 11, 2010 07:30 PM
Hey, let's do it again!
BTW, that cripple still pisses me off.
Kool pics!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 11, 2010 10:01 PM
quote:
BTW, that cripple still pisses me off.
Need more gun.. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 11, 2010 10:04 PM
[ March 28, 2010, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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predatorhunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3559
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posted March 12, 2010 08:32 AM
I've tried leaving the caller on, calling a series and muting it, loud volume, low volume,switching sounds, ect... Now days I keep a log of what sounds and volume I used at each place along with results and method of calling and try to switch around so as not to educate no more than they already are. Since I started doing this I've gotten a better idea of what works and what don't at each place. Around here, there's not a lot of places to hunt compared to out west and midwest so, I end up hunting the same places alot and if I didn't write it down I wouldn't remember. The only advantage I have over some of you guys is there's not that many coyote hunters here. But, that's begining to change. I entered a contest last month and there were 122 callers entered in all. When I started calling, most folks here had never heard of calling anything but fox and that wasn't common since most fox hunters around here used dogs.
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In efforts to conserve electricity,the light at the end of the tunnel has now been turned off!
Posts: 76 | From: kentucky | Registered: Jan 2010
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 12, 2010 09:19 AM
I think we are all thinking to much.
The loud volume expands the potential area a sound can be heard.
Has the potential for more coyotes to react to the sound.
More likely to have the sound travel thru territorial boundries.
The volume of the sound IMO leads coyotes to believe it may be closer at the initial hearing and once started they continue to it's source. Nothing screams that loud in the real world or sounds that loud unless it is very close.
Each and every coyote has its own personality, agressive to passiveand all react accordingly. Life experiences can and do alter it.
If you fire up a sound in between to known groups territories or fire up a sound off a known location of a group usually you get different reactions and I call differently.
Same thing with areas with known high numbers, the singles are not going to work thru the group or pairs area to get to you. They have to be called away from them for it to work. Or work the fringe softly to get to the core.
The echo is an issue that does confuse them, seen them go in circles dam near trying to figure out the source. Not only trees but tall vegation like standing corn etc. They can really get cautious with the echo.
Bottom line is, time of year, sounds used, coyote density, range of sound, terrain, hunting pressure, getting in undetected, extreme weather, food sources, all contribute to how hard they come IMO!!
LB, I would think the coyote density being high had more to do with it than anything. Did you notice stands producing coyotes after you had shot coyotes more than normal? Maybe not killing them but seeing them taking a look?
I don't believe you will ever have a black or white equation but it does lead to some interesting conversation.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted March 12, 2010 12:41 PM
I have never believed in continuous calling or extreme volume. I know some guys call that way and kill coyotes, but it doesn't seem to work that well around here. In extremely cold weather, with no foliage, sound carries very well, and coyotes seem to respond better for me on lower volumes. I agree with Randy that the terrain probably affects this a lot. Many of the farms I hunt don't call for high volume. I call a lot crosswind with the wind, watching from a high vantage point. Most of the coyote vocals I use are high volume. Distress cries vary depending on the species and the setup. I always run a couple of low volume series, calling less and less as the stand wears on and watching more. This method has worked well for me and fellows I have taught.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 12, 2010 02:02 PM
quote:
LB, I would think the coyote density being high had more to do with it than anything. Did you notice stands producing coyotes after you had shot coyotes more than normal? Maybe not killing them but seeing them taking a look?
Randy, this hunt was, (as your buddy Scott likes to say) a "snapshot in time".
It was obvious, from the first stand, killing a female in estrus, that this was going to be something I have not experienced, often. Reason; I seldom hunt coyotes after about the first week in February. It's a personal decision and I have always been comfortable with it.
(as opposed to regulated seasons and that kind of crap)
Anyway, there was only that first stand where we called three, and personally, I only saw two of them while dumping the female that was leading the parade.
Another Anyway. After the first stand on our first full day of hunting, we never saw anything but singles, and except for a couple males, they were all females. Having no history of hunting this late in the season, I really don't know if what we saw, was that most of the population was involved in breeding activities, or it (our results) was coincidental?
The short answer is: we never saw any hung up animals, at least, that weren't killed. We had two simultaneous discharges. On one of them, Randy claimed there was only one bullet hole? I had intended to open that one up because I didn't believe him, but never got around to it. I'd like to think he didn't miss.
Good hunting. LB
PS Al, I (personally) mildly disagree with the first sentence of your post, but believe there are a number of ways to handle a stand, some better than others.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 12, 2010 02:08 PM
Kellys signature line comes to mind whenever these threads get started......"It's checkers, not chess"; Ive always liked that line:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 12, 2010 02:11 PM
We can do that, if you like?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 12, 2010 02:41 PM
My appologies El B; I was just thinking outloud. When I read Als' first sentence I cringed, thinking, hell, some people don't believe there was a moon landing either, but that silly belief doesn't make it any less true?
The very thing he doesn't believe in, is the very essence of my success calling coyotes here, good volumn and calling continuous.
I don't believe in sequence calling, or estrus chirps,or decoys or having the ability to distinguish between a female challenge or a adolecent hello bark, but some guys do believe, and use that shit, and also manage to kill a few coyotes.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted March 13, 2010 06:47 AM
Hi Leonard. I thought this thread was about various people giving their take on volume, etc.. Maybe not. I gave my take on how to call here in central Ky. No method will work all the time, and every hunter should use the method he believes in for where he hunts. High volume and continuous calling is not the best way to go here, IMO.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted March 13, 2010 08:27 AM
Ive posted about this several times. There is something to what Al is saying. I was taught, and had always called, with pauses every few minutes. Never called at full volume til the end of a stand either.
First time I went to AZ, first guy I hunted with asked me after the stand what the hell I was doing. I was in shock. For the next week, everyone of the locals I hunted with sat the call out there crosswind, turned it all the way up and sat there for 20 minutes. And we killed coyotes. Ive tried it here and killed a few, but not as many as I do when I vary the sound and take breaks in the calling.
I dont know if its a terrain thing or what, but there does seem to be a difference.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 13, 2010 10:48 AM
quote:
Hi Leonard. I thought this thread was about various people giving their take on volume, etc.. Maybe not. I gave my take on how to call here in central Ky. No method will work all the time, and every hunter should use the method he believes in for where he hunts. High volume and continuous calling is not the best way to go here, IMO.
Don't get the wrong idea, Al. You are entitled to your opinion. Very much so. But, here's the deal. We like to kick it around, your opinion and anybody else, they should not feel offended by being asked to defend their beliefs. As I said, I MILDLY disagreed, and I probably have not hunted much in your spots, and respect your methods. But, we should not be so complacent that we know what we do is the be all and end all. Sometimes some very assured individuals nibble on a small portion of "food for thought" and besides, it's mostly the neutral observer that is able to find a nugget, here and there by reading about differences of opinion.
So, don't take any question as an attack on your integrity and knowledge. We are just parsing these issues and hopefully for the benefit of everybody. I really think it works that way. You may find that on occasion, I might disagree with something just to get a response and justification for what they said. And, I may agree with what was said, in the first place, so gotta pay attention, keep on your toes.
If we always politely agreed with everything that is said, I think all of it would have less value?
Good hunting. LB
[ March 13, 2010, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted March 13, 2010 11:15 AM
Leonard, I didn't take anything wrong. I gave my opinion, and that's all it was. All I was talking about is how I do it in Ky..
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted March 15, 2010 11:29 AM
 Here is a pic to help explain why I don’t call continuously and pause a lot. The wind is moving from the bottom left of the pic to the top right. I don’t want the coyote to pin point my location. I did a single mellow howl every 10min and it took 1.5hr for the coyote come out and started to walk across the pipeline. I barked the coyote stopped and I shot it with my 243 bolt pistol at 170yds. I feel that if I called continuously the coyote would pin point my location and come closer but stay inside the tree line.If the wind was in my face the coyote would more than likely cross behind me.
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 15, 2010 12:59 PM
JohnLK; That's a very nice photo. It makes me want to go outside and kiss the ground while giving thanx that I live in Arizona and not Three Rivers where I grew up. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted March 15, 2010 01:41 PM
Andy,
Whats your thinking as far as turning your volume up at the end of the stand? By turning your volume up at the end of the stand wouldn't your sound be reaching out there further thus you would need to allow quite a bit of time for the coyote to reach you? I would think by turning your volume up towards the beginning or middle of your stand you would see more response?
Just trying to learn.
Personally Im a stop and pause guy because my lungs won't last for 12 minutes!
Jeremy Gugelmeyer
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 15, 2010 02:37 PM
I'm glad you asked, because I had the same thought?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 15, 2010 03:16 PM
I'll tag in for Andy.
Not really but my calling partner had this crazy idea too and I asked what he was doing. His reasoning was sometimes a coyote might be just inside the woods, being content to just be there and the sudden boost in volume kinda jars em into approaching the caller.
I saw it work and I saw it not work but we'll never know if we buggered our next stand so we quit that for the most part. We hunt close cover mostly and for the most part may not have permission to hunt across the fence. By directing the volume to a certain spot we can set up however is needed for the next stand.
Kinda like in bass fishing, you can fan cover every inch of the water or try a little finesse and place your lure where it'll do the most good without splashing the water out of the lake.
When I use hand calls I take a break but my e-caller plays continuously, both work here.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Okanagan
Budding Spin Doctor
Member # 870
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posted March 15, 2010 05:08 PM
I've reading and nibbling on one edge of the food for thought, to learn from my betters, and many of you are WAY better wolfers than I am. FWIW I've called them with pauses and called them with continuous sound. I didn't know any better. I've called them both ways from near the Mexican border to well into British Columbia. With an electronic the easiest and laziest way to call is to let it run, but I pause it some to listen.
As to volume, I tend to start with medium to low sound, go loud within one or two minutes, and taper volume off the last few minutes, for coyotes. My thinking was that if one was really close, he'd hear the low sound and not be jolted. If nothing shows right away, then go to loud to reach out there. Then I may taper it the last few minutes of a 20 minute stand trying to do some coaxing, etc. But the words "tend" and "may" are key. I don't lock on to one "always" method for hunting anything.
The wild card in all of this is the coyote who happens to ramble within earshot about the last sound we make on a stand.
As to coyotes locating the source of the sound: My impression from watching coyotes come up close into bow range from way out there is that they hear so well that most of the time they have a location pinpointed even from a short sound at long range. That might not be so true in heavy timber country with echoes, but it held up IME in brushy desert and hill country. When I have thought that a coyote had missed where I was hand calling, when I keep still and quiet so far they have always turned toward me again. I realized that they knew where the sound had come from all the time and that they were merely detouring around a bit of terrain or using some cover, etc.
Most rifle hunters would have already shot those coyotes and surmised that the critter was unsure about the location of the sound.
[ March 15, 2010, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
Posts: 269 | From: 49th Parrallel | Registered: Jun 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 15, 2010 05:57 PM
I too believe they can pin point sound. I was in a tree stand bow hunting once when I heard some coyotes howling on the neighbors place. I pulled out a call and gave a few short tries to call one into range but decided to quit and go back to deer hunting.
About 10 minutes after I quit, a coyote walked right up to the tree I was in, smelled a tree step and ran away. It made me a believer.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted March 15, 2010 06:29 PM
Iagree,pin point may have been the wrong way to explain it.
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted March 15, 2010 06:55 PM
quote:
.. and it took 1.5hr for the coyote come out
Crikey!!! One and a half hours?! How do you know the coyote didnt wander into ear shot seven minutes before you saw him?
Maintain
[ March 15, 2010, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted March 15, 2010 06:56 PM
Going on a big walk-about and mostly cold calling, I am going to squeak my way through most of that country. Only making full-blown stands at choice locations.
I don't want to alert every coyote in the country that I am coming by making max volume stands at every place I stop. Could be the loud volume gets a coyote up that attempts to come-in only to stop at some boundary. Maybe it just gets one up and moving around. I want to call to a bedded coyote or one that is relaxed and not possibly on edge from a previous stand.
Randy
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