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Author
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Topic: Dens
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 31, 2010 04:43 PM
Yeah, Randy. They evolved to teach coyote pups why you don't dig into badger holes. That's why you don't see coyotes screwing with badgers. They think they're bald porkies. The porcupines certainly appreciate what the badgers have done for them. Just goes to show you... if you're gonna screw with a big hole, make sure you have lotsa prick(s).
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 31, 2010 05:03 PM
I saw a bunch of them running the ice this winter heading south to the otherside of the river. I would of taken a few out for you but they where past 300 yds and thats not considered sporting.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ May 31, 2010, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 31, 2010 09:32 PM
Quite a few years ago, I shot what I thought was a pair of badgers at extended range. It was very frosty, that morning lots of sparkly stuff, all I can think of for the mistaken ID. What a disappointment after a long walk to find two dead porcupines. Ruined my whole day!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted June 02, 2010 07:11 AM
Lack of the dirt being "polished", vegatation like randy said i would say it was last years but don't rule out that she is checking for a spot to move the pups too.
They "will" use the same den in some instances but more importantly they will use the same drainage or a "denning pocket" year after year. Getting to know your denning pockets is a win win situation whether in control work or recreational caller.
We end up with them in rock piles and sink holes out here quite a bit. Entrances tend to be not quite so pronounced in those situiations due to not having to remove so much soil. Just a well packed down entrance with hair around the entrance. Depth is everything from being able to reach the pups with you arms to needing a backhoe and a 25 ft deep hole.
Great post Randy i hate porkies also.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted June 02, 2010 03:46 PM
I agree with Randy and his post. Looks like an old hole and not active. Most will be very close to water and water means different things depends on the weather. As long as it holds water for awhile doesn't have to be great.
Notice the well worn trail and matted grass. Over that hill 3/4 of a mile are sheep.
[ June 02, 2010, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 03, 2010 11:26 AM
Hi Randy. That is a cool picture of your Huffer. What breed is he? Hope his meeting with the Porky wasn't too painful for him. Ouch.
The coyotes around here seem to have 4 or 5 digouts within 300 to 400 yds of the whelping den. They must only keep the pups there until the fleas start getting bad and then move them again. We have actually seen this happening just one time over the years, leading me to believe they probably do most of that work at night. The digouts don't indicate anywhere near as much activity as the whelping den.
Good looking country in those pictures.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted June 03, 2010 07:16 PM
Al, he's a Mtn. Cur out of Jack Alexanders Curs in Hot Springs SD. Jack is a very good houndsman and turns out some great pups. Proud to say he is a coworker and a good friend. Helluva rifle marksman also!
Could have been worse quill wise had he found the porky farther out away from me. All the quills came from one wack. Lucky it was a small porky.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted June 03, 2010 08:36 PM
I have never seen a live porky but man that has got to hurt.
Good looking dog.
Edit to add: Randy does he never learn not to engage a porky?
I had a Mouintain Cur that was a fine squirrel dog. Could break him off anything but armadillos. If there was one in the woods he was gonna chase it to a hole then dig it out. I tried ever technique I could come up with to get him to leave them alone, short of a shock collar.
[ June 03, 2010, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 03, 2010 10:26 PM
Medium to large sized porcupine quills are worth around $7.99 per hundred... looks like dog dude has about $2.50 worth in his mug?
The quills are used to make beads.
The longer guard hairs (6+ inches) also have value. They are used to make "roaches" and "brims", both, types of head dresses worn by native Americans.
There was a thread on the subject, running on Trapperman, about a week ago.
These two bundles (each approx. 8" in length) are going for $45.00. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
The longer (white) hairs from whitetail deer tails are also used, because they can be dyed bright colors.
Beyond the monetary considerations, and hopefully without opening a huge philoshophical debate, I'll say, I think we should try to supply the needs of these markets whenever possible.
Krusty 
Edit to repair hyperlink.
[ June 03, 2010, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 04, 2010 05:44 AM
Randy,
That photo of your dog with porky quills in his face brought back some memories. When I was a kid, we had to hold the dog down and pull those quills out with pliers. A lot of the quills were pulled out from inside the dog's mouth. Not a fun thing to watch. Not fun at all.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 04, 2010 07:05 AM
Randy, that picture shows how tough he is. I know he is a good hunting companion. Hope he stays away from those rascals.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted June 04, 2010 10:52 PM
Ouch i feel for him but just part of the line of duty. Good Looking dog Randy I like those Brindles!
Ragn i wouldn't take my dogs out without shock collars for just those kind of situations. Your dogs find a porky and get going and the coyotes show up and they don't see them smell them or engage at all due to the porky. A good shock collar you can solve those probelms checking snare, trap and M-44 lines before you get into denning season. I have a tougher time breaking young dogs of running "non-target" even with shock collars then ones that don't run or hole up.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted June 05, 2010 08:16 AM
If you cut the ends off of them they seem to pull out easier to. Like they are air filled and swell a little more without cutting the ends first.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted June 06, 2010 08:56 AM
Ragn, no I doubt he will ever run by a porky without something happening.
A guy just has to stay away from certain spots and keep track of the dog etc. Call to the woody draws instead of getting right down in them. Stay where a guy can see good but our vegetation is getting so tall it's tough. All the rain we have gotten has the grass coyote high already.
He will be 4 in Nov. and this was his first porky ordeal. Keeping him from hunting for them and not doing what he is suppose to be doing is the goal.
It's just part of the deal, and one of the hazards. Snakes are another!
We ask a lot of these dogs. You want to see a panic, lose your best dog this time year in this profession. Always good to have 2-3 of them in the mix.
Maybe Cal has a porky free remedy? I'm not aware of one. Ever smell one?? Horrible BO smell, you won't forget it!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 06, 2010 09:26 AM
I don't have a denning dog but I have had bird dogs and coon hounds that I trained myself. The bird dogs were pretty easey to train but the coon-hounds canbe a little hard headed..
To train my dogs from running unwanted animals I would teach them "Don't touch" method which is pretty simple to teach...
You need a Electric collar which most should already have and you need some chunks of fresh meat like beef or chicken..
At first start with the dog on a leash, take a chunk of fresh meat and toss on the ground in front of the dog and when he goes after it say the command "don't touch" and if it still goes after the meat then give the leash a sharp tugg or give it a good shot of juice with the E-collar. ( only shock dog when it is in the act of doing wrong)
Do this about 15 minutes each day and the dog will catch on, some may take a little longer but they will catch on..
Now that they know what the command of "don't touch" means then move on to a certain animal you don't want them chaseing or fighting with.
Say you want to break them of porky's then you will need a dead one for the training. Place the porky out of site of the dog and then walk into area were dead porky is with the dog, if the dog bolts for the porky say 'don't touch" and if dog continues then push the button on the E-collar. The more stubburn the dog is the higher the volts..
Randy I may be in Pierre in July and if you want help just say the word, it only takes 15 minutes or so to get them started.. Youre dog was real lucky a lady friend of mine had her dog tangle with a porky and got the quills inside the mouth and also lost a eye..Later
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted June 06, 2010 08:24 PM
ND-I don't hunt with the collar, just use it for training. As you can imagine, down here they are gonna get wet. I mean really wet. The collar will be under water at some point in the hunt. There is something about the movement of an diller that dogs just can't resist. At least none of mine can. My house/yard dog goes nuts over a diller.
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 06, 2010 08:43 PM
For most of ten years, I hunted coons with an old retired Air Force non-comm who was a breeder and competition hunter, too. I didn't compete my dogs, but I knew the importance of a clean dog that ran no trash. My English male, Cody, was like Randy's dog about armadillos. It didn't matter how good the night was, he had to munch a skunk.
My buddy set me up with breaking scent (not skunk musk) and told me how to use it. At his direction, I took a large prescription bottle and drilled it full of holes, filled it with cotton and saturated it with that scent, wired the cap shut and wired it to the D-ring on the dog's collar. Everyday, I recharged that bottle and cotton.
At the same time, I took two tube socks. Put a rock in the bottom of one, and a rolled up old sock in the other. Randomly, I would pick one or the other, with the one with the rock being sprayed down with the breaking scent, and the other one left clean. I'd pick one and hold it up to Cody., If his tail wagged or he alerted on it in any way with any type of interest, he'd get whacked over the head and yelled at. If he didn't alert, or backed off, he got some lovin'.
After about three or four days, that dog would not eat. The smell of breaking scent caused him to start dry heaving, he hated it that much, and he never munched a skunk again.
The same guy had quite a set up for breaking any of his Walker hounds from deer. The dog was secured in a cage, about four feet long and three feet square, made completely of expanded metal mesh. The cage was then suspended off the ground with a pully'd cable system like those old innercity clotheslines running through it. A deer hock gland was then attached to the clothesline. The hock gland had a copper wire hooked to it that was hooked to one side of a fence charger. The other side of the wire was hooked to the mesh of the cage. The hock was wheeled into the cage at random intervals and if the dog so much as tried to sniff it, ZAP. Not too many dogs were so strongheaded that they didn't learn what and what not to do. Some were. I had a yearling English male that we swore up and down, if a dog could be retarded, Bear was. I sold him back to the breeder and he ended up being one of the finest hounds in SE Missouri for the next 7 or 8 years. Some dogs come along later than others.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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nd coyote killer
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posted June 07, 2010 05:30 AM
Ragn- Did you have problems with the collars getting wet? They should be able to take them in the water if you have a quality collar like Tri-tronics. I know countless guys that have them on their labs and chesapeaks for retrieving ducks and geese in the water.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted June 07, 2010 10:20 AM
You have a point ND. This feeble Coon ass mind didn't even think about Duck dogs.
I just naturally figured it was not a good thing and never tried it on him hunting. He is gone now and sorely missed. Here is a few shots of him when he wasn't after a dilla.
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
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posted June 07, 2010 03:45 PM
Man, what a great looking dog. I know you had some great times with him.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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nd coyote killer
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posted June 07, 2010 04:17 PM
Thats a sharp dog looks like he was a good one too boot!. Should be no problem getting your training collars wet with future dogs.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 07, 2010 09:04 PM
Man that's a big-ass 'coon dawg!
They just don't last long enough, do they. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
While most shock good quality collars can handle wet environments, keep in mind that water lowers electrical resistance... use lower settings than you normally would.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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