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Author
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Topic: Coyote kill?
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted December 30, 2010 05:27 PM
heres some pics of a FRESH wolf kill. i ran them off early in the a.m. the pics of the rib cage was exactaly 24 hours later. 
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 30, 2010 05:30 PM
JohnLK,
How can you tell that the deer didn't go down after being wounded by a hunter's bullet?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted December 30, 2010 05:31 PM
John, you are a lucky guy.....unfortunatly around here, they don't eat enough deer.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 30, 2010 06:34 PM
Same here, Geordie. Of course, I frequently remind the PF guys that this is why God made pheasants, too. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Need something to feed my coyotes.
Around here, if a guy doesn't recover his deer before sunset, chances are about 90% that by the time he does find it the next morning, it'll be cleaned up for him.
Edited to add that the other day, I went to one of the sites where I dump carcasses and four coyotes that I'd dumped about a month ago had been dragged out from the brush and mostly eaten. Tracks around them indicated cannibalism.
[ December 30, 2010, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted December 30, 2010 06:35 PM
quote:
How can you tell that the deer didn't go down after being wounded by a hunter's bullet?
I followed the tracks of the coyotes chasing a deer on fresh snow and when I got to the edge of the lake there they were.In the spring when the snow melts into the ice it is common to see blood stained patches with deer parts in the ice where the coyotes have made kills.Tracks like this deer on the left and coyote chasing it on the right 
[ December 30, 2010, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: JohnLK ]
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 30, 2010 07:10 PM
JohnLK;
You have a funny looking rifle, but that's an interesting seat / backpack set-up. Could you elaborate a bit on it, possibly in a seperart thread?? Thanx.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7588 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 30, 2010 08:53 PM
OK but you guys will never guess what killed THIS poor critter.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2010 09:17 PM
1) Aliens
2) Vietnamese noodle baron
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31489 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted December 31, 2010 07:54 AM
LB, I will gladly respond to your question about cats, but the other guys pretty well covered it. If you don't have tracks to go by then you go to the bite marks. Of course a lions canines are bigger and farther apart and they typically hit the neck right at the top base of the skull for a final kill bite. On a sheep they will sometimes crush the skull and vertebra. In the case of bobcats, which do ocasionally kill sheep, alot of times it will look alot like a coyote kill unless you can find claw marks and if the sheep doesn't have too much wool on it there will be lots and they are easy to find. On heavily wooled sheep sometimes its way tougher. Dogs and wolves typically bite everywhere, but with wolves they will eventually get to the throat usually. My wolf info is pretty much second hand and lots of manuals and pics. We havent had any wolf kills in my part of the country. Dogs many times kill by literally running an animal down and eventually get the paunch opened up and really make a mess. Eagles can be tough on sheep also, as well as bears. The guys that are in the mountain country and have to decide between lion, coyote, bobcat, bear and wolf really have thier work cut out for them.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted December 31, 2010 08:47 AM
JohnLK: "Don't coyotes normally start eating the back of the hindend frist after the kill?"
Depends on the prey. With lambs of this size or new born calves, it is quite typical for coyotes to eat the liver and other bloody organs first by entering the flank area. On larger animals, particularly in the winter months, they may eat the hind quarters first. The picture is typical of a lamb killed by coyotes. In contrast, most newborn calves that I have seen are killed by coyotes attacking and opening the flank area.
I agree with what has been stated about lamb kills by SD Howler and 3 toes. In addition to looking for teeth marks the other reason to skin the neck back is to look for hemorrhage. Coyotes usually kill lambs by biting the trachea and killing the animal by suffocation. In the process of clamping down on the neck, you will have hemorrhage in the bite region of the lamb's neck. I'm quite sure that's what you would find if you skinned this lamb's neck back.
When differentiating between animals that died of other causes and were consumed by coyotes vs actually being killed by coyotes, a primary difference is in the presence of free flowing oxygenated blood from a live animal in the area surrounding the kill in contrast to the coagulated blood of an animal that was already dead.
Texas A&M has a good publication on identifying kills of various animals.
As has been mentioned, dogs are notorious for maiming and tearing vs. the usually clean kill of a coyote.
In regards to the original picture, it sure looks like coyote but as Cal mentioned you need to skin it out to know for sure.
~SH~
[ December 31, 2010, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 31, 2010 09:09 AM
No snow, big carcass, not real fresh, frozen ground, evidence indicates wolves, coyotes, maybe fox and ravens. (scat near by)
How do you sort out what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Bonus points; age the frozen kill.
Good hunting. LB
edit; hypothetical, I don't have a photo? Take a stab, nobody's wrong.
[ December 31, 2010, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31489 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted January 04, 2011 09:02 AM
This thread is awesome! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
LB, I say a Mazda RX7 killed it.
JohnLK, what part of MI? I'm in Oakland County.
[ January 04, 2011, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 04, 2011 02:26 PM
Elbee,
Last working hypothesis I heard from those black helo college sorts was that in order for birds to evolve from their likely origin - amphibians/ reptiles - there needed to be the evolution of an egg with a hard shell that could survive prolonged periods above ground or outside water. Once the hard-shelled egg was "founded", the leap to avian vertebrates was only logical. Ya know? Which came first? The egg. The science is now settled, as Algore would say.
There you go, not that you were asking, but you did bring it up . See? Tim ain't the only smart one here.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted January 04, 2011 03:09 PM
This is a very informative thread, thanks for the kill experts sharing the CSI details.
smithers,
Where in Oakland County are you from? I'm from Rochester Hills originally.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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ursus21
2nd place, John Denver lookalike Contest
Member # 3556
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posted January 04, 2011 04:52 PM
Rich, I have no idea what killed and picked that house cat clean, but I'd sure as heck like to borrow it for a year or two.
Actually if I had to venture a guess on that cat I'd say a bird of prey had something to do with it.
[ January 04, 2011, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: ursus21 ]
Posts: 780 | From: Montana | Registered: Jan 2010
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted January 04, 2011 05:05 PM
Tundrawookie, I'm from Lake Orion. If you haven't been back to Rochester in a while it has changed immensely. For the good of course
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted January 04, 2011 06:52 PM
Smithers,
I used to fish Lake Orion quite a bit and had some friends that lived out there. I used to hunt Bald Mountain area a-lot too about 15 years ago. My parents are still in Rochester and I get back there about every year. I can't stand the place anymore, it's urban yuppie-ville to the extreme. My folks said I should move back there and buy one of those huge houses that sit vacant in the new subdivisions. No way...no how I'm leaving Alaska though. Email if you want and we can chat Michigan more, we might know each other.
Sorry to get off subject,
I honestly think that a coyote wearing bobcat socks killed that critter.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted January 04, 2011 09:59 PM
Looks like i'm late but i will give my two cents.
Tough to tell FOR SURE without skinning I agree.
Dogs usually have are messy as has been stated and sometimes large pieces of the hide are pulled free in a "flap" from the tugging from the flank and back of the ribcage, its more of a game then food to most dogs.
No coyotes don't "always" eat the hind end first but eating the inner organs first has been stated to lean toward "cat".
Not EVERY cat covers his or her kill although it can be a dead giveaway if you don't have bears in the area.
3Toes nailed with the classic thoat coat and looking for the canine puncunters.
Also if you skinned it out you would probably see some hemorage in the bag legs from the coyotes trying to hamsting it which cats will rarily do but canines will.
Just my two cents good post.
I think a Burrowing owl killed the kitty cat
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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yotehunter2
PAKMAN
Member # 3764
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posted February 02, 2011 07:48 PM
new here but have hunted yotes about 5 years back in michigan and a guy at the sportsman club brought in a video of a coyote taking down a deer in his field and that one had the deer just as you stated up under the head on the neck just holding it waiting for it to die,he went in the house and got his gun to dispatch the coyote and it saw him and let go of the deer and made his escape into the woods before he could get a shot!
p.s. i live in W.V. NOW
Posts: 2 | From: W.V. | Registered: Jan 2011
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 04, 2011 04:05 AM
When I had sheep, most kills were domestic dogs, very sloppy killers and inefficient . Often did not kill the sheep , just put it down and died later.Usually did not consume much if any.Real predators do it cleanly and efficiently which is very obvious.
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