|
Author
|
Topic: SHOOT THE FURTHEST ONE FIRST?
|
predatorhunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3559
|
posted February 08, 2011 04:11 PM
By the way Leonard,that Rem.7400 shoots pretty good.I put a dot scope on it for woods hunting. Not a quarter m o a gun, but great for multiples in tight woods with that dot scope on it.
--------------------
In efforts to conserve electricity,the light at the end of the tunnel has now been turned off!
Posts: 76 | From: kentucky | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted February 08, 2011 05:28 PM
ph,
It's been my experience that the best way to guarentee you 2-3 coyotes satanding broadside at 75 yards just asking to die is to carry the shotgun and leave the rifle in the truck. Works every time. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
albert
Knows what it's all about
Member # 98
|
posted February 09, 2011 07:36 PM
I alway's try and kill the one that is the farthest that i'm confident that i can hit. I feel that the most aggeresive a coyote is the better chance of calling it in on a second visit.
--------------------
for what it's worth, eh!
Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 09, 2011 10:49 PM
That's an interesting reason, Albert. But, for me and the way I hunt and where I go, and the fact that I almost never make a stand in the same place twice; your reason is sort of meaningless to me. No doubt, when you know your area and go back next week or next month, it may be a valid concept.
Question: how many times does the farthest dead animal turn out to be a female?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted February 10, 2011 04:41 AM
LB usually the female is the least agressive, usually!! Survival of the family etc.
Kind of like why most bar fights are men but ocassionally we luck out and it's women.
Sure is funny how if you shoot the female first you usually can get the male to stop but vice versa not near as likely. That is given the second you don't get was the female? Especially this time of year.
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
predatorhunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3559
|
posted February 10, 2011 09:41 AM
I'd say seven out of ten of the lead coyotes I've shot were male. I agree Coydog,but my problem using a shotgun is that in 1990 I shattered the back of my shoulder in a bike wreck and the recoil is gruesom. I still use one alot but that 7400 makes it more comfortable. Got a double with it late yesterday after work.
--------------------
In efforts to conserve electricity,the light at the end of the tunnel has now been turned off!
Posts: 76 | From: kentucky | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
predatorhunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3559
|
posted February 10, 2011 09:47 AM
I never thought about it like that Albert,but it makes sense especially here where were limited to on the amount of land we can hunt.
--------------------
In efforts to conserve electricity,the light at the end of the tunnel has now been turned off!
Posts: 76 | From: kentucky | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
|
posted February 10, 2011 10:25 AM
Hunting quail with an elder Gent when I was a kid. On almost every flush he got a double with his double. I was not that good, he told me
"do not hurry, you can't get a double unless you kill the first one"
I live by that, kill the one I can, try for the second.
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
|
posted February 10, 2011 03:40 PM
Shoot the close easy one thats the "done deal" first. Then try to pick up the extras on the way out.
Take a chance on the further/less easy opportunity and mess it up and you have a real high percentage of looking like an ass all together when the easy one gets away too.
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 10, 2011 05:24 PM
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. For a while there, I thought I may have missed some new strategy. As they say in that Geico commercial, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. This all presupposes that there isn't some other consideration, and as long as you can justify it, you have my blessing.
Gud hunting. El Be
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wily E
unknown comic
|
posted February 13, 2011 08:19 AM
As with most coyote calling topics, there is a lot of variables to consider with this one as well.
If the contact is close and cover is near, you have to take what you can get. If the country is more open, you have a better chance of setting the situation up for multiple coyotes.
Other factors to consider is distance to each coyote, distance to non visible escape routes from each coyote, shotgun and/or rifle shots, whether I believe the coyotes will know where the shot came from, remote caller vs. hand held, etc. Rifle suppression changes the game further.
Basically, with each situation you are weighing how effective you will be at killing the next coyote. It can really be fun when the coyotes don't know where the first shot came from and the second coyote offers a nice standing or easy broadside running shot.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, which I believe is the most important factor in killing multiple coyotes, is trying to keep them bunched IF POSSIBLE. Granted, that's not always possible but I have found that combining howling and low volume distress calls can keep coyotes bunched more than just using distress calls at normal volume. If the coyotes can't detect the exact source of the sound, it can stall the front coyotes while the back coyotes are still coming. In addition to that, being partially visible as opposed to fully camoflauged also helps keep them bunched. Give them something to look at that they cannot identify.
When coyotes are responsive, distress calls when used alone at normal volume usually creates a race to see which coyote will get there first. That is a typical situation most callers face with coyotes that I try to avoid if possible. In contrast, combining howling and barely audible distress calls or lip squeaks can keep coyotes from charging. Again, being partially visible also keeps them from running over you which is why I don't wear face camo unless I am wanting them tight for a shotgun situation. If the only sound you are using is rabbit distress at normal volume, you are only packing a rifle, and you are fully camoflauged, good luck trying to handle coyotes properly for a higher percent of multiples because it's usually a coyote race to see who will get there first.
At times I have moved my gloved hand to stop the first coyote so the second could get within range. Handling coyotes on a stand has a lot of similarities with team roping. You have to time everything perfect and you have to forsee what's going to happen before it happens.
The next variable to consider is whether I am only carrying a rifle or whether I have a shotgun with me. If I have a shotgun, I will try to get everything into 4 buck range and line them up swinging through them.
If I am just packing a rifle, I will first try to get them all within good rifle range then take the first sure shot and follow up with the best opportunity for a good second shot on the run. The distance is not as important as the angle of departure. I don't want them too close with a rifle or it's too difficult to swing with them with a scope that's probably still on 10x. If the second coyote is quartering away, it's a better shot as long as it's within say 250 yards so you don't have to worry about lead, wind drift, and holdover. I'd rather only have to worry about lead.
Incidentally, I posted this a while back but a coyote running 30 mph broadside at a 90 degree angle at 50 yards will eat up 5' of lead with Hevy Shot "Dead Coyote". At the same distance and coyote speed, the lead with a .243 will be 2'.
A coyote running 25 mph at 200 yards broadside will eat up 7' of lead with a rifle with a muzzle velocity of 3300.
Before someone goes there, no I am not suggesting you have time to calculate every shot. If you watch 10 guys shoot at running coyotes, 9 of them will shoot behind them. You need to have some idea what the lead will be for each situation.
The difference between men who consistantly kill more multiple coyotes than others is in their ability to shoot running coyotes and setting up those shots. A broadside coyote gives you 2 feet of target to shoot at. That shouldn't be a problem for any of us with a shotgun when it's within 50 yards. Remember, 5' of lead with a shotgun and a broadside running coyote at that range.
Another factor to consider is which coyote is the closest to cover. That may be the coyote to shoot first because the second coyote offers a better opportunity for a running shot.
It's a judgement call each and every time. There is certainly no set of rules for me on which coyote to shoot first. The bottom line is I will shoot the coyote that offers me the best chance at killing the rest because when it comes to killing coyotes, I'll admit that I'm greedy.
~SH~
[ February 13, 2011, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
IP: Logged
|
|
6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
|
posted February 14, 2011 05:12 AM
Great post Wiley,lot of my own considerations. When I started calling the situation involved getting as many killed as possible because the number of coyotes chewing up irrigation was the problem. Wanted as many killed as possible and I was always told don't let any get away if possible. Always involved a shotgun and rifle.Carried that over into the calling and hunting I do now, but don't often take the shotgun now, seem to experience less multiples than used to so got lazy about taking two guns.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
|
posted February 14, 2011 06:11 PM
" If the coyotes can't detect the exact source of the sound, it can stall the front coyotes while the back coyotes are still coming. In addition to that, being partially visible as opposed to fully camoflauged also helps keep them bunched. Give them something to look at that they cannot identify."
Scott, I'm sure that I've read some where that you said a coyote can pin point the source of sound to with-in a few feet from a half mile away, so how does one keep them from pin pointing the source of sound?
One thing I have noticed over the years is if the coyote is coming from over a hill and doesn't get over the hill with-in eye sight of the source of sound while the sound is still being made, it won't have it pin pointed nearly as well as when it's with-in eye shot of the source, no matter how far out it is. Thing is if you don't know that they are coming to the call, one can't guess when to stop calling before they break over a hill to be with-in eye shot.
--------------------
Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 14, 2011 07:39 PM
quote:
I'm sure that I've read some where that you said a coyote can pin point the source of sound to with-in a few feet from a half mile away, so how does one keep them from pin pointing the source of sound?
You can bounce the sound waves off of small ridges that are close to youre stand or some other types of structure rocks, tree's, brush ect. which will confuse the coyote to the actual
source... The caller can also be placed out of site which will cause the coyote to stick around longer and look or perhaps move in a little closer... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted February 14, 2011 08:56 PM
Fire at will, JD!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
|
posted February 14, 2011 10:10 PM
I dont know what to say!? This one is going in the TA archive for sure.
Scott, good point concerning how much to lead a runner, not many people put the math to it, its good to keep those things in the back of your mind on a stand.
--------------------
Jason
--------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 14, 2011 10:51 PM
So whats the problem this time. You don't think the sound from a E-caller will bounce off of ridges or other structures and give the coyote the impression its comeing from somewhere else.. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 14, 2011 11:14 PM
Now you gone and done it, Tim! JD doesn't know what to say.
I think that your last sentence is more than the first. I'm going to laminate it for my wallet.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 14, 2011 11:23 PM
Good idea..
Edit to add. So what are you saying. A coyote won't stick around longer or work the stand more searching for the source of the sound...
[ February 14, 2011, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
|
posted February 15, 2011 12:06 AM
Tim, you are obviously far more advanced than we give you credit for, you must be a coyotes worst nightmare what with your ability to "throw" the sound of your caller around at will so that the coyote becomes dazed and confused to the point that they wander around aimlessly and come closer to the call unknowingly then BOOOOOM you and the pred drop on them like the hammer of Thor!!! Hell yea!!! Teach me Oh Great One!
Tim, you may have guessed, I dont like you, not because you constantly show your ass on the boards, thats just a bonus, I dont like you because you`re a liberal Obama supporting asshole, I dont show favoritism I hate all you liberal fucks the same. So dont be discouraged, keep on posting your nuggets of wisdom for all coyote hunters to enjoy, it doesnt matter what you post, your liberal double talk shows up in everything you do and say and I intend to make you pay every chance I get. And you thought I didnt like you because you`re an idiot.
--------------------
Jason
--------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wily E
unknown comic
|
posted February 15, 2011 05:53 AM
TRnCO: "Scott, I'm sure that I've read some where that you said a coyote can pin point the source of sound to with-in a few feet from a half mile away, so how does one keep them from pin pointing the source of sound?"
Good question and this certainly needs further explanation.
As with anything coyote, this "sound origination" statement probably should have been preceeded with a disclaimer such as "in the typical calling situation that I see" or something like that.
Of course strong winds, echoing, volume, structure, and possibly other variables will change this to some degree from one situation to the next.
Generally speaking, in many situations with very little wind, very little structure, more open ground, and very little echoing, if a coyote hears a rabbit or another coyote at a distance of 1/2 - 3/4 mile and if they do not hear that sound again, they will approach on a straight line and stop when they are fairly close then look for the exact origination of the sound. In this situation, they usually do not run right to the source of the sound but rather they will stop at 150 - 100 yards and stare very close to the origination of the sound. I am talking about when they obviously cannot see me such as when I am in full snow camo. Of course if you contrast from your surroundings, they will see you which is not necessarily a bad thing unless your human form is very obvious. My own observations have proved this "sound origination theory" to me many times because I would hear a coyote answer then watch them approach. Without calling again, when they were within say 150 - 100 yards, they would stop and stare at the origination of the sound. At times I have seen them stop and look around not sure exactly where the sound originated but, by their actions, they know it came from there somewhere.
In this case, where you called then waited, the lead coyotes uncertainty gives trailing coyotes time to catch up which allows you a better opportunity at multiple coyotes. Make sense?
Now if you are calling continually, USUALLY the lead coyote will run right to the exact source of the sound without any hesitation. By calling continually, you remove any doubt to the origination of the sound. The closer they get, the closer they detect the exact origination of the sound when you call continually. In this situation, you are usually forced to shoot at the first coyote before the others arrive.
Keep in mind that I am used to calling in fairly open country where seeing a coyote approach the stand is fairly normal. As long as they are coming, I don't call especially with multiple coyotes for the reasons stated.
If you have habitat that will hide a coyote's approach and you usually don't see them until they are on top of you and you are calling more often, in that situation you are less likely to keep them bunched or get them to stop because they usually know exactly where the sound came from and they are charging it.
Thanks for pointing out what appeared to be a contradiction. The difference is in their confidence level to the origination of the sound.
Along these lines, I believe it's best to call from some sort of structure or habitat that would hide the animal you are trying to present. If you are calling from a bare hillside on full snow cover in snow camo, the coyotes may hold up because they can see the general area where the sound originated from but there is nothing there to see which is not natural. In contrast, if you are calling from soapweeds or sage brush, this would hide a coyote or rabbit from view and appears much more natural and enticing. I have seen SOME coyotes approach these bare sidehill stands, not see anything, then start to shy away because it just doesn't appear natural to them. Some of them know something is not right.
In fairness to TA, echoing and structure can confuse coyotes to the origination of the sound but neither is a consideration for stand selection. Rather, I locate the coyotes and determine my approach according to wind and structure. If echoing happens to occur at the stand, it's by chance rather than by design. Remote capabilities with an e-caller does allow you more possibilities with handling coyotes by where you place the caller.
~SH~
[ February 15, 2011, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
IP: Logged
|
|
JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
|
posted February 15, 2011 08:17 AM
Scott, alot of what you`ve said should be obvious, I understand that you were clarifying a previous point but something that may not be obvious is what you said about the coyote being able to see something to identify the sound, I never would`ve believed it until I stumbled onto this truth by accident a few years ago. I have one area in particular with little to no cover and almost invariably I`ll shut down the caller once the coyote checks at about 400yds, lip squeak while waving my hand and they typically will get up and walk in to about 50 yds while fixated on my hand, damndest thing I ever saw, kinda goes against the basic rules of concealment. Interesting stuff that you said about multiples too, very interesting.
As far as being "fair" with TA....he presented his statements in the context that sounds could be manipulated & controlled in such a way as to purposely confuse a coyote on the way in to a call by bouncing them off of rocks and other structure which is of course total bullshit.....I think I`ve been plenty fair with him, rude, but fair.
--------------------
Jason
--------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
|
posted February 15, 2011 09:18 AM
?
[ February 15, 2011, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
--------------------
Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 15, 2011 09:24 AM
quote:
I dont like you because you`re a liberal Obama supporting asshole, I dont show favoritism I hate all you liberal fucks the same.
First off I could care less... Second you are a little confused or misinformed. I did'nt vote for Obma and I don't support him anymore than Leonard or Paul...
Sure the Government is fucked up, its not my fault..If you are looking for someone to blame then point youre finger at Leonard and Paul and some of the other old farts that helped make this mess..
I'm not a Liberal, Dem, or republican, not that its any of youre business.. If and when i vote, I do so for who-ever I wish...
For some people they can't go through life without haveing something to bitch about, I could care less and tend to look more to the posative direction, makes life that much more enjoyable.. Now go do something posative with youre life rather than roll-around on the ground kicking and screaming like a little baby.. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 15, 2011 10:00 AM
quote:
As far as being "fair" with TA....he presented his statements in the context that sounds could be manipulated & controlled in such a way as to purposely confuse a coyote on the way in to a call by bouncing them off of rocks and other structure which is of course total bullshit.....I think I`ve been plenty fair with him, rude, but fair.
So now you are saying sound will not bounce back off from solid structures like rock or ridges and so on..
Well maybe you should get ahold of the navey and let them know that there sonar is'nt working..LOL
All I was saying is that it happens and in some cases a caller shouldbe aware of this.. You can have the sound blowing out into a area into the coyotes face and have it bounce back off of structer like a ridge or revine and it will confuse the coyote as to the direction from which it is comeing from. Depending on what sounds are used and the amount of volume it can work in youre favor or at times against you..
Just like calling down a deep drainage vrs. flat open country. The sound will carry farther down a deep drainage than it will over open ground.
Just like in this short video where I had a pair come in. I took the first coyote out as soon as it showed up while the second was still in the drainage. The second coyote appears not sure of where the sound is comeing from and also the added scent of its mate thats laying dead in the grass.. The second coyote could'nt see its mate but smelled it which added to the confusion and kept the coyote in front long enough for me to get off a shot..
[URL=[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/th_Deletepart ially3of9172010_133847.jpg[/IMG]]2[/URL]
Most of my calling is done around drainages so I don't have to look for certain structure and such, its everywhere.LOL
[ February 15, 2011, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
