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Author
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Topic: King of the coyote
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 10:18 AM
Byron,
Just to clarify my position... and you need not reply.
I do not believe anyone in this world deserves a free handout, and I for sure don't think anyone should take anything away from you to do so (anymore than the taxes we all pay, which are too high due to the way the money is squandered).
But I do believe we should help out those who are working to better themselves, ie. school grants, subsidized health and child care for the working poor, social security for those who worked their whole lives and paid into it.
When and where did you come up with the idea I think otherwise.
I did say "the pursuit of happiness", and to me, that means a person has to get off their ass and go and PURSUE it (not have it handed to them).
I do beleive that if you have paid into a "safety net system" like unemployment insurance, state health care plans, or social security... you should be eligible to get these benefits when they are needed... to me it's no different then collecting from your auto insurance if your truck was in a wreck, or getting your own money out of a 401K retirement plan.
It's a service I have already been paying this country for, out of every paycheck I have ever received.
Even so called liberals pay taxes, some of us actually work hard to scrape out a living, don't break any laws, and are actually good Americans.
I highly resent any implication that I am not a good person, because of a "liberal" label you guys put on me.
Personally I think the "multi party" system is doing this country WAY more harm then good... with party infighting mucking up much of the political proccess in this country... repubs vote "no" on an idea, good idea or bad, because a demo thought it up and is presenting to the forum.
How does that help any of us?
All we do is miss out on good things because of a "civil war" going on between the elected govt officials... and that same "civil war" threatens our little peace here (that friends should be polarized over such nonesense)... that's the true "trickle down" we see, and what is eroding the foundations this country was built on.
It would be SOOO much better if we were all just Americans, working to make America a better place, for America... one Nation, under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all... wouldn't it? (I made that deal, with my country, every school day for about 12 yrs... I find it hard to forget... do our elected officials remember they did too?)
Krusty 
[ July 05, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 05, 2004 10:31 AM
Krusty,
quote:
Even so called liberals pay taxes, some of us actually work hard to scrape out a living, don't break any laws, and are actually good Americans.
I highly resent any implication that I am not a good person, because of a "liberal" label you guys put on me.
Seems as though you labeled yourself a liberal.
I know that I don't care what polictical persuation someone is, and I don't think others do either, as long as that person uses some good ole fashioned common sense, but giving somebody something for nothing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and that is how most liberals and democrats feel this country needs, well not from me they don't, not if I can help it. If you are a liberal and don't feel that way, Great, make others with the same political ideas as you see things that way.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted July 05, 2004 10:35 AM
DOD, If you shoot another one like the one pictured, you should have the DNR do a test on it... there does not appear to be much coyote in that wolf.
Byron, great picture with Tanner.
Rich, with all those hunts planned, if you come home skunked due to poor weather or other challenges creating poor filming, we are going to know you are a jinx.
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 10:36 AM
DOD,
I used "so called liberals" first in the sentence... then I used the word "us".
To me that would imply I have labeled myself a "so called liberal", in reaction to Q's labelling me as a liberal.
I have been "so called" that by others here and elsewhere now too.
Plain enough english for you?
Krusty
P.S. Norm... I was wondering how long that familiy looked for the HUSKY dog DOD shot... don't look very coyote to me either.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 05, 2004 10:58 AM
Ah Krusty, ya see there ya have it, just like a liberal, say one thing, then try to side step and explain that you really meant something else.
When some uses "us" in a sentence, it implies to me that they are including themselves, THAT is plain enough english for me.
Here is a definition for ya
quote:
The plural nominative case of the pronoun of the first person; the word with which a person in speaking or writing denotes a number or company of which he is one, as the subject of an action expressed by a verb.
Glad you like the coyote by the way.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 05, 2004 11:07 AM
Krusty, you've seen the map.
You got the blue and you got the red. American politics have become polarized to the point where many of us can't see a middle ground. I know my values are not represented by the Media, Jessie, Teddy, or Kerry....or Hillary.
The same people that made excuses for Clinton get in a dither over imagined lies by Bush. They would sabotage the Iraq war, and the war on terror for domestic political reasons. This, I find beneath contempt.
So, there you go. One side wants to throw money at every minority while tearing down American institutions like the Second Ammendment; for example. One side wants free abortions on demand and the other side wants to end the slaughter of the innocent.
Rather than finding common ground, there is less and less room for compromise. The whole process has become completely polarized. No other word for it.
I'm starting to see the causes of the Civil War in a new light. A lot of people would be a lot happier if the whole country were divided down the middle with conservatives on one side and liberals on the other, since one of us lives on another planet anyway.
America has not become a better place, in my lifetime. I don't feel good about the prospects for my children and grandchildren in this brave new world.
For those that were attracted to the coyote question, I apologize. Staying on topic has never been a requirement on Huntmasters. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 11:10 AM
DOD,
Yep, I agree... I am one of the individuals in the group of "SO-CALLED liberals"... called that by persons other than myself.
(There I added a hyphen, to denote that "so called" was used as a single adjective, to describe a person who is thought to be liberal)
Sheesh... So now this is Language Masters?
And yeah I like the "coyote" did the tag on the collar say "King", and IT is the King of coyotes!?!? LMAO
Be sure of your target and your backdrop, eh Vic?
Krusty
P.S DOD, if you want your picture to come out... you have to first "host it someplace" like photobucket.com...
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 05, 2004 11:11 AM
Leonard, will you move Krusty's posts and all replys to them to the political forum so we can get back to big coyotes here?
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DOD
Knows what it's all about
Member # 308
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posted July 05, 2004 11:15 AM
I'm done with it guys, have a great time, When I get accused of shooting someones dog, buy someone who does not know me at all, or my hunting ethics, it's unbelievable. Personally I wouldn't/couldn't do that, but thats me.
Posts: 26 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 05, 2004 11:21 AM
Krusty, DOD is not seeing your humor so maybe you should explain yourself? Briefly.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 11:36 AM
DOD,
I am truly sorry you got upset... I was only poking fun at you and your giant canid. (good thing I didn't use my Photoshop joke LOL)
I took quite a lot of heat this past few days, and tried to do so in good humor... you should try to take what comes your way in good humor too.
What do I know anyway, it's not like I am some predator expert??? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
My opinion at best, should merely evoke a chuckle from you "experienced" guys. It surely can't carry that much weight or validity. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
OKAY THEN BACK TO BIG COYOTES:
Can someone explain to me why the NE corner of the US, and one side of Texas would have the biggest coyotes?
I mean that goes against the whole Berman's (Bergman? or whoever) theory on cold climates and mammalian body size, doesn't it?
Why aren't Texas coyotes small with thin fur coats, and Alaskan coyotes as big as bears, and shaggy as a muskox?
Krusty
P.S. Rich, Q is the one who brought up politics, and hung a target on me... it was never my intention to turn this to politics.
But like Leonard said, staying "on topic" is not one of the rules here.
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted July 05, 2004 11:44 AM
Krusty,
Having Siberians as pets, I don't think the animal the DOD shot looks like any dog.
Having spent 13 years as DOD's neighbor (Freeport, ME), I know that the coyotes there do not compare to the coyotes I call here in AZ;
I did not have the fortune of calling coyotes in ME as my boys needed a taxi driver to take them from one hockey tourney to another, then one lacrosse tourney to another and so on. I did spend my time bowhunting deer and bear when I had available time and was able to observe them working the timber lines from above.
But even the ones I was able to observe, did not have the wolf like facial features like DOD shot.
All I know is that across this country, there are many different representations of this animal we call a coyote. In addition, once the great battle described in the Bible is over, there will still be coyotes and cockroaches looking for food.
Time to start a new thread.
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 11:56 AM
Norm,
Actually and honestly, whatever it is that DOD shot bears a striking resemblance to the Alaskan dog we had, and to one my Grandmother had from the same part of Alaska.
Both of the dogs I knew had wolf in them, one was half wolf (it's father) and the other a couple generations removed.
I did take my joke too far and I made my apologies for that... all we can do now is to "buck up" move on.
For a bunch of guys, who kill things for fun, some of you seem a little too sensitive.
At least I never said anyone here was a bad person. LOL (joke)
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 05, 2004 12:59 PM
Genetic Eastern Wolf Findings:
In a laboratory located at the University of Trent, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada, Dr. Bradley White and his associates have spent the last four years collecting 2,043 wild canids to analyze their genetic makeup. These specimens have come from throughout Ontario, New York, and northern New England. He used as control groups coyote DNA from Texas and gray wolf DNA from Canada's northwest territories. Below are some of his findings.
Algonquin Park wolves are not small versions of gray wolves, but they are identical to red wolves. They find that there are thousands of Algonquin - red wolves.
Eastern Canadian wolves evolved in North America along with the coyote while gray wolves evolved in Asia then crossed over to North America. The small eastern Canadian coyote wolves are the only ones that mate with coyotes in the wild.
In Ontario's Algonquin Park, the Eastern Canadian wolf is holding its own, but to the south they interbreed with coyotes. At the northern end of the park and beyond, they mate with gray wolves. The results are large coyotes (from the mix) and smaller gray wolves where both wolves' territories overlap.
By using skull size and two DNA markers, researchers can trace the ancestry of the specimens and even tell with a hybrid if it was the result of a male wolf mating with a female coyote or visa versa.
So far in overlapping areas it is still the male wolf breeding with a female coyote, and the off spring if they stay in a wolf pack are subservient because size matters and these hybrids are smaller than pure wolves. If there was a change and dominant female wolves bred with male coyotes, there could be major problems within the wolf pack structure because the size of the offspring would be more uniformed.
To the north of Algonquin Park, the female Eastern Canadian wolf seems to be mating with the male gray wolves, so there hasn't been a drastic drop-off in size, since some of these big gray wolves weigh well over one hundred pounds. They are predators of moose and caribou. The Eastern Canadian wolf weighs on average 50-70 pounds, and they hunt smaller pray like deer and beaver
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 05, 2004 01:10 PM
That's extremely interesting stuff, Dennis. Thanks for sharing.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RanUtah
Knows what it's all about
Member # 18
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posted July 05, 2004 01:11 PM
Krusty, I don't think these guys are sensitive, a better word would be passonate. We all wanna hold onto what we have left, ie, hunting privledges, gun rights etc. I just wish the tread would have stayed on track about the size of coyotes, the talk is interesting. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 35 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted July 05, 2004 01:17 PM
60 lb coyote with 5'8" stretch from tip of nose to end of tail.
If this subject stays on track, it's really interesting stuff and I'm enjoying it!
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 687 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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RanUtah
Knows what it's all about
Member # 18
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posted July 05, 2004 01:20 PM
Crow Woman, that's a big one for sure!
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted July 05, 2004 01:24 PM
Thanks... The one thing that amazes me still to this day is the size of his chest cavity! He was running with a smaller coyote at the time, exact coloring as him.
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 687 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 05, 2004 01:51 PM
Something we should remember is that there is more to it than size.
We have reports of coyotes in various areas that do not vocalize, or respond vocally.
We are hearing about coyotes that are shy, about coyotes that eat road killed deer, run with feral dogs, don't associate with feral dogs. Won't respond to rabbit distress, don't hunt at night, won't go near a vehicle; and ignore vehicles...you name it?
Then we saw a photo of a coyote that appeared, to the majority to be a small animal but which weighed as much as any coyote that I've ever seen before.
What it proves is that the coyote is adaptive and diverse. Hard to put him in a box.
The funny thing is; the coyote I know is just part of the whole, but it's the one I know, and relate to. The others may as well be different animals. I don't know them, at all.
Interesting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 05, 2004 02:19 PM
Randy,
Nobody wishes more than I do, that my political postition had never been dragged out into this discussion... but once under "fire" I felt the need to defend myself, and the fire kept coming.
I think that if any of my opinions or jokes hurt any feelings or pissed anyone off I need to make my apologies, and did.
But I also think like I stated before if anyone places that much stake in what a clown like me says... they are too sensitive.
All I ask is that (like Leonard did) that we keep the discussion to real proven facts, not conjecture at a doctoral level.
Like DOD said, a DR. in front of a guys name don't mean he has all the answers.
And like Mr Higgins always points out, we are not dealing with one coyote animal.... but many many subspecies, each with it's own adaptive skills to suit it's place in whatever food chain it is a part of.
Only the yippers know for sure..... and they aint tellin'!!!
Oh yeah.... Leonard, aren't 20 pound Californian bass actually transplanted Florida Black Bass, and not the same largemouth bass (many of which came out of Oklahoma and Texas during the dust bowl migrations) that are found throughout most of the rest of the country, and in Cal?
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted July 05, 2004 02:54 PM
Coywolf or coyote? What did it weigh?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted July 05, 2004 02:58 PM
Dang Q! He's got that deep chest cavity like mine did. He looks a bit heavier though... so I'll say 62 lbs. It's kind of hard to say how long he is without anyone standing by him. But I'll stick to that guess. BTW... S-W-E-E-T!
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 687 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 05, 2004 03:15 PM
Krusty-
Bergman's Rule refers to the overall body size of an animal, with larger animals being noted in higher latitudes. The reason being a matter of body temp regulation and the ffects of surface area vs volume. Another rule, and I cannot recall the exact name, has to do with shorter legs, larger ears, etc. in desert vs arctic climates and everywhere in between.
Also, why are these critters being seen in the northeast US and eastern TX? Well, it might have to do with the fact that both areas were historically close to wolf range with greys in the NE and reds down south. I think it was pointed out by Rich at some point that for many years, the size and bulk of C. latrans frustror led many to falsely believe that this subsp. was part wolf, especially when compared to the otherwise more modest subspecies with whom they overlapped or shared some range.
Sheri,
As far as thoracic structure on those big coyotes, I submit the common bobcat. I can tell a tom from a queen from a hundred feet away here in KS. Their heads are much larger and blockier, their chests are deeper and wider, and there is much more mass to the shoulder and pelvic girdles, much like your basic run of the mill African lion or the whitetail deer. The biggest coyote I ever killt here tipped at just over 41#. DOD's big coyote has the bulk of a hybrid, but the face is all coyote to me. Coyotes have much more pointier (is that a word) muzzles with a much sharper angle just anterior to the zygomatic breadth than does a wolf. He's big - damned big - but he still looks as much coyote as he does wolf.
Q-
Telephone pole! I don't care who y'are. That right there is funny!!!
[ July 05, 2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted July 05, 2004 07:38 PM
Here is a picture of the 50 pounder in the truck. I couldn't find a picture so I lifted this one off the footage of us weighing him. Notice the short hair. This was taken last December. If this coyote was fured up like the one in Q's picture he would be mounted in my living room.
Krusty, I don't think anybody suggested that you were bad . Stupid maybe, but not bad .
Good Hunting
Byron
[ July 05, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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