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Author
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Topic: Estrus chirps, anyone?
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 06, 2007 04:47 PM
Just played that sound bite. sound called in our female Boarder Collie from the other room. Hmmm, now I'm wondering about her "orientation" LOL!.
That high pitched short yip, is similar to what I heard last week. It followed a very short deep bark, simulataneously.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted February 06, 2007 06:09 PM
Scott. Down here we do a lot of Bass fishing. On those days the fish wont react to anything we throw at them. We go to the buzz bait. Buzz baits come in several sizes. They have a propeller on the front. The large one sounds like a hubcap coming off of a 1968 Oldsmobile 98. The idea is to agitate a Bass into hitting this racket.
I have pictures of a Bass I caught out of my pond with a snake in his mouth that he had only half swallowed. Yet he clobbered the buzz bait anyhow. I will leave the why up to the Bass masters gang.
The point of this story is I personally believe you invented the buzzbait. Cause you can certainly crank up the oxygen level on a pond.
I also think if the truth was known you have been using some form of the chirp since they put JFK in the ground.
The chirp can be made on any howler, but you have to find the sweet spot on the reed. My purpose in developing the She Howler was to have a call you stuck in you're mouth run it up to you're lips and give four to five huffs front the diaphragm. No hunting for the sweet spot. The first one I made rewarded me with the best day I have ever had calling Coyotes. I never put my hand on the 243 sitting a foot away.
Just rambling thoughts from a old man that knows how to move his chess pieces also.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 06, 2007 06:49 PM
I bought one of Ronnie's she howlers last week and it came with an instrucional dvd . I haven't used it yet and don't care what they call it or why they respond but it's more than just a chirp caller, it's pretty versatile. I for one will be trying it out.
[ February 06, 2007, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 06, 2007 06:52 PM
Ronnie,
Would you say that the Clip that Steve posted, was a fairly accurate rendition?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 06, 2007 07:15 PM
varmit hunter,
Same question that Tim Behle just asked.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted February 06, 2007 08:29 PM
The one I heard from about 150 yards, and the sound I make is the chirp at the end the of the peep,peep sounds. Maybe I was not close enough to hear the peps proceeding the chirp. The chirp is extremely loud,sharp, and with a demanding tone. Think of a 40 pound bird giving a sharp chirp. It does not sound like something that a Coyote makes. Steve's sound may be right on the money,and there could be different sounds transitioning into the single note chirps. All I was trying to do was make a call that would produce the sound I herd quick and easy for all levels of calling experience. It also has a pretty fair array of distress sounds, puppy wins etc.
I would like to add I don't make a dime of this call. It is part of my contract with Lohman.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted February 07, 2007 06:14 AM
Just to let everyone know it wasnt my sound. Its ernie wilsons. He calls it a whimper and from what i learned from my friends in the desert it is far from a whimper and close to the chirp as you call it. Like i said the closest i came up with. I visulized this sound and searched and thats what i came up with two weekends ago on Geordies laptop. From what ive learned its close but,,,,,not it. But you can get the right idea. Place to start.
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 07, 2007 09:28 AM
UTcaller,
UT " To base your hypothesis of the "female chirp" off of ONE experience of hearing it doesn't make it rock solid evidence.
Chad, you are right but that one experience hearing it is all I have to go on. However that is not the only experience with responce that I have had and as I said this is my opinion, you take it for what its worth.
UT "As far as the lone howl followed by a chirp,how do you know the coyote didn't respond to the lone howl alone"
I don't, never tried to imply otherwise and in fact I said " when used in conjunction with" Just what does that mean to you?
Look, I'm not trying to sell anything, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just simply trying to convay to everyone that this sound, whatever you call it, whoever found it first, is in fact evoking responce from coyotes.
Picking me and the way I try to explain it apart don't detract from simple fact, IT WORKS... I'm not sure but I think every howler already made will reproduce this sound. Ronnie's She Howler is to my knowledge the only one designed to reproduce this chirp and from what I hear it will produce other sounds as well.
I don't have one but bet your ass I will and soon. This sound is something and I want to know more and try to understand it. I'm playing with other applications and trying every angle I can with it. This sound don't always call in dogs but no sound does. when this sound works you better have more than one gunner or be a better shooter than I am cause they don't come alone.
So guys, If you want me to belive differently prove my thinking wrong, Please show me the light but untill then don't belittle my thoughts.
Remember its just what I think, based on what I've seen and experienced. Remember also I'm using this sound and getting good results while you are sitting back and picking it apart. Just take the time to learn it and try the darn sound and then tell me what you think. Observe for your self and see the reactions from the coyotes and then tell me what you think.
A wise man changes his mind, a fool never does.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 07, 2007 11:35 AM
Sly,
I guess I am not making myself clear.I believe you when you say you are calling coyotes with this new sound.It's not hard for me to believe you.Coyotes are attracted to many many different sounds,which I'm sure you know because you've been doing this along time.I guess what i am having a hard time understanding is, with the ONE experience you've had with this sound from a live coyote(female)and you base your whole theory on this.
quote:
"Now with these FACTS in mind, let me try to explain my thoughts on it. In my expierance I have only heard this chirp once and it was durring the mating season. The coyote that made the sound was in fact a female, I know this because I shot her.... Fact. Now when this coyote made this sound there were two other coyotes with her. I can't tell you for a fact that they were males because I did not kill either of them. From what I witnessed that March morning I deduced that it was a Demand for service if you will. Because of the actions of the two other dogs I deduced they were both males.
After she made this "chirp" the other two advanced toward the female but as they drew closer they became intangled in what I thought was a fight over this female. At this point the wind changed and blew right at the 3 coyotes. In the insewing flight for cover I only had one shot and it was the female".
quote:
From this encounter I deduced that this sound was indeed a sound that the female makes and as I can honestly say, I have never heard a male coyote make this sound. I only guess that it is a sound that females solely make. Thats not proven its just my thinking. Since hearing this and talking with others who have heard and recignize it as a chirp and only seeing it 1 time durring the breeding season. I deduced that it had to do with breeding rituals.
I would just like to know with only ONE experience under your belt from hearing this Female Chirp how you have made such a bold claim.That's it!Like I said I don't question the effectiveness of the sound just the fact that you believe you know that you imitated a female coyote sound based on very limited experience with that sound.Now when you and/or others hear this sound over and over and only during the mating season,and only by females,and you can see countless interactions between male and female coyotes when this sound is heard,then you can say "from my extensive experience I have come to a conclusion that there is indeed a female estrus chirp and it is only used by females during the mating season,to demand service from a male".Otherwise it is just another sound that works to call coyotes.
I have only heard the sound 4 times.Once by a live coyote,once on one of Randy Andersons videos,next was one of Randy Andersons FX sounds for foxpro(female Whimpers),and last was the sound Steve Posted.Sounds like short high pitched KIYI's.Hardly a calling breakthrough.But all that matters is that it calls coyotes. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Edited for spelling
[ May 21, 2007, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 07, 2007 11:51 AM
"I would like to add I don't make a dime of this call. It is part of my contract with Lohman."
Well that's a shame. I just bought one today ![[Smile]](smile.gif) . Looking forward to trying it out soon.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 07, 2007 12:01 PM
Chad,
"I would just like to know with only ONE experience under your belt from hearing this Female Chirp how you have made such a bold claim"
First off, I said I only heard it on one ocation, Thats not the only experiance I've had with the sound. I have been using this sound and getting lots of experiance with it. I realy don't feel I've made any bold claims, I've just shaired my thoughts and what I think is going on, thats all.
As to me making "Such a bold claim", This is only what I deduce from what I've seen and experianced.
"MY FREEKIN OPINION" is all, nothing eched in stone.
(Prove it wrong) and I'll back down, say I'm sorry for misleading everyone and shut my mouth. Untill then I'm going to shair my "THOUGHTS" and Ideas freely weather you agree or not. OK Chad
Nothing personal I'm just tired of the NA SAYERS running this down. Prove I'm wrong just as you want me to provide you with concrete evadence that what I think is right.
And for the reccord I'm not saying Your thought is wrong either, trust me I've had the same thoughts. I just keep deducing from what I've experianced and witnessed using this sound, it to be true to my way of thinking.
This debate could be a long one unless people try using the sound. the more people using this sound the sooner we will possably start to see patterns and base our thierys more on fact than assumptions. Is that fair??
sly
[ February 07, 2007, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: slydog ]
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 07, 2007 12:23 PM
Fair enough.I just know when I first started calling.Specifically howling,that I tried to over analyze it,tried to figure out what coyotes were thinking,To be honest I thought I had it figured out a time or two.lol
But the longer I use howls to call coyotes the more I realize how little I know/understand.It's much more complicated(coyote language)than I first thought.I know what works and has worked,but alot of times I really don't know why.It just does and I'm ok with that.Don't get me wrong I use sounds that alot of guys don't use or don't know about that have proven themselves over the years but I would be a fool to think I know what a coyote thinks when I use those sounds.As long as the coyotes are coming to the sounds you make that's all that matters.Good Hunting Chad
[ February 07, 2007, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 07, 2007 02:41 PM
Chad,
The first 10 years I hunted and traped coyotes I did it to make money. The last 27 years I have done it for revenge. I too use sounds that I'm sure would make the best ADC men look at me with question marks all over their faces but they too constantly produce.
I think you are right as rain. Do any of us realy totaly understand the coyote vocabulary, Hell no, but people want to try to understand why we use the sounds we use. I'm just trying to explain it the best way I can figure. Like I said its just my educated guess as to what is going on with this sound and In NO way do I stand flat footed against you guys in your thought.
This theory of mine is just 37 years of being fooled by coyotes pushing what I think out of the box. I'm certanly not demanding anyone think I'm an athority on the matter......lol these dang dogs have made a fool out of me more times than not. It is JUST an educated guess on my part.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted February 07, 2007 04:56 PM
I almost hate to say anything on this topic, but here goes!! Two years ago, on a late season outing, I beleive it was early March, I went out with a cow horn howler only. I went out to force myself to use only the howler, I took no other calls. I only got three sets in that morning and it was my last hunt of the season. BUT, the only sound I used was my rendition of the chirp. I did series after series of nothing but the chirp. In three sets, I called in two females, both of which were in heat! Go figure!!
Why did females come? Why not a male? Maybe my rendition of the chirp was miss interpreted by the coyotes, and they were coming to see what critter there was making the sound, cause it sounded like it might taste like chicken ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) , who knows!!
None the less, it is a sound that again in the next few weeks, I will be using in areas that I have been to a few times calling already this winter. It's a sound that those coyotes that have been called and shot at a time or two already this winter haven't heard, and I'll bet that I fool at least a couple more with it!
I'm not selling a dang thing either, by the way! Just sharing my experience with those who know more than I do!! ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted February 07, 2007 05:17 PM
Some ppl just don't want to try anything new.
What called them in, the howl or the distress? The chirps or the howl?
Who gives 2 shits? They came in to one or the other and if it works do it again. Keep doing it until it stops working and then do it some more. You dicks that over analyze and pick apart each post as if it's some kind of friggin science project are ridiculous. The world is not going off axis if a certain sound truly does or does not produce. If a guy says it works or it has worked for them, what do you care? They are not forcing it on YOU. If you don't like it or don't believe in it then don't do it. Just go ahead and sit in the corner with your thumb in your mouth. You sound like my 3 year old. Why this? Why that?
You are essentially calling someone else a LIAR for telling of THEIR in the field experiences. One man's experience may not be yours but they aren't calling you a liar for it.EDIT: Spelling
[ February 07, 2007, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 07, 2007 06:05 PM
Whoa,Nobody called anyone a liar.At least from what I've read.I sure as hell didn't.I can totally believe that Sly has called coyotes with his new sound.Without rehashing everything again,I just called into question the fact that the sound he made although effective doesn't mean it was effective for the reasons he stated(mating purposes)that the "coyote female was demanding service from the Males".Unless the coyote could talk and tell you that for a fact,we don't really know why it responded.That's it.Plain and Simple.You want to read more into it than that,then that your problem.As far as being an over analyzing Dick, you can kiss my ASS.I have as much right to question his Theory as he does in sharing it.Go back and read where I called him a liar.It's not there.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 07, 2007 06:57 PM
OK guys lets not forget we are guests here. Its ok to disagree as long as we are respectful to each other..
Please don't let this thread be shut down, we are learning here... Please
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted February 07, 2007 09:36 PM
TRnCO,Those two gals in heat thought a third interloper was chirping up an affair with there lover.Why shouldn't they come in and whip the sh*t out of her? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Sly,i been playing that tune for two years now and i'm going to keep playing it.
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 07, 2007 11:25 PM
thanks guys I was feeling kinda alone and out on a limb for a while there. I'm glad there are others having success with this sound.
TRnCO. Hows the family man Hope everyone is good. I gotta get to bed as I'm going out in the morning to use this sound"to call in coyotes that don't know why they are comming in" What a country.
Melvin I tried to E-mail you but it won't let me??
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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DJ in AZ
Knows what it's all about
Member # 276
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posted February 08, 2007 09:44 AM
Those two females coyotes may be part of the gay coyote community ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 42 | From: Glendale AZ | Registered: Jan 2004
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted February 08, 2007 04:09 PM
slydog,I have no idea why you can't reach me by E-Mail? I keep getting X rated mail from those chirping b*tches from somewhere! Don't know why i would get that sh*t mail and not yours?
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 08, 2007 05:20 PM
Ive suggested it before, but the technique seems to have fallen out of favor? Seems everyone is luring in those late season, big ole rough males with the new found "estrus chirp"
I think the over looked "penile peeps" are gonna be killer, for pulling in those late season bitches that elude us each spring?
Posts: 1629 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 08, 2007 07:52 PM
Vic, would that be pre penile or post penile peeps?
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted February 08, 2007 08:13 PM
I am not about to wrap my lips round that one. I leave that to the broke back desert gang.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 09, 2007 03:08 AM
Ronnie, LOL, thats funny.
This has been a good discussion. Came close to a mental breakdown, but stayed pretty good.
I learned alot in this thread. One thing, Im not as far off as I thought. Ive always thought there was alot more science to coyote vocalizations? Exact whens and wheres to use what sounds and I have always kept my mouth shut and was pretty intimidated to even think about it when in the presence of another hunter. I dont know that much about it and didnt want to show my ignorance.
Seems maybe I wasnt so far off after all? Just try shit till I call a coyote and keep using it til it dont work anymore and try some more shit. As far as I have gotten is some times more aggressive sounds work better than less aggressive sounds, and vice versa. Maybe I am way behind and maybe not?
Good thread, thanks fellers. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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