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Author
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Topic: Locating or not locating before you hunt?
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted April 04, 2007 09:33 AM
I would certainly think that locating would work to your advantage in MI due to the sound of the call not traveling as far. Wouldn't it make you more effecient to be able to pick apart the wood lot and get within earshot of the coyotes that call it home? I haven't ever hunted or even been to MI but would have to say with the vast amounts of woodlands out there locating would mean more coyotes shot.
I don't want this to sound like i'm picking on you personnaly smithers i'm just having a tough time with someone arguing that locating isn't a great tool no matter what context it is used.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted April 04, 2007 12:41 PM
NDcoyote, the area of MI where I live is not really vast woodlands, it is more of a vast savannah of houses and strip malls. It's in a very populated area. The wood lots are tight and broken up. Sound travels surprisingly far. I like to use softer smaller calls most often because of the chance of a coyote being right around the corner, so to speak. But when I have to get the sound pushing I have calls for that as well.
A couple hours drive north of me it is pretty well wooded and a couple hours to the south is mainly agricultural. I don't get to hunt these areas often. I mainly hunt in area's where the coyotes are tight lipped and seldom seen.
I believe if I had a way to get them to respond vocally every time I called and had no risk of them coming in I would "locate" more often.
Once in a great while I will get a group to vocalize and that is when I move in on them.
Otherwise it is mostly cold calling or calling around areas that I have called before and had success.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 04, 2007 12:50 PM
Leonard,
I to have usually pre-scouted the areas that I intend to hunt,and most areas are areas I have hunted before too.But I still like to try and locate coyotes before dawn so I know where the coyotes are before I go in an area to call.Not to say that I ALWAYS try to locate coyotes before I call on a stand,but most times I do.Am I getting busted by coyotes? I really can't say for sure since it's pre-dawn and I can't see them.But I have had very good success over the years doing it,so if I am losing a few coyotes here and there that have come in or been alerted to my presense when locating and I haven't seen them it doesn't seem to be effecting my numbers to much.
Hell,in some parts of Nevada,I don't even have to locate the damn coyotes,They keep me up half the night with there howling around the Wall tent.lol ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1615 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 04, 2007 01:59 PM
2 dogs: "I've watched a bedded coyote stare @ a distant stimuli for close to an hr. W/O turning it's head. Complete focus.
If that stimuli moves. Then they'll stare/look in that[stimuli's] direction for 10-20 minutes or so. Until, they believe it's moved on or doesn't pose a threat. From what I've seen."
I have watched literally hundreds of coyotes that spotted me and they generally don't stare at me without looking away occasionally.
If that stimuli was prey that they planned to hunt and kill, I think they might stare more but they are generally keeping track of their entire surroundings which requires looking in all directions occasionally.
Smithers,
Don't know how much time you have spent thinking about coyote sign but the best calling locations have coyote tracks of different sizes and different ages both coming and going. A single coyote track going a single direction could be a passing coyote. A location with tracks of different sizes and different ages going in both directions presents a much better chance of calling success if you are going by sign alone. FWIW!
You're welcome! LOL!
~SH~
[ April 04, 2007, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted April 04, 2007 02:07 PM
WileyE, I will usually follow a track for a bit or fan out from the track some to see if they have a partner. Unless it is on a trail, because of deep snow, they usually don't follow single file?
[ April 04, 2007, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 04, 2007 02:16 PM
I wasn't talking about tracking a single coyote in the snow. I was talking about reading tracks on a location. Just forget it.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 04, 2007 02:22 PM
Wiley,
Can't say what that coyote was staring @. As I was 1/2 mile away, quartered to it's position. If it's head turned, I didn't catch it.
All the coyote's, I've ever seen "but" the one's I called[except a couple]. I've watched from a distance. Gotta like open rolling cropland for that.
Bro & I watched an old guy walk very slow & methodical, in on one that was bedded @ the 1/2 mile. Old guy slid his snowshoes, slowly & quietly through the snow. He was an old very experienced coyote hunter[over 40yrs of coyote hunting]. We watched the hunt from the gravel roadway angled a tad over a 1/2 mile to their SouEast.
That coyote knew the old guy was there, early on. Long before the old guy knew, what that coyote knew. Old guy never got a shot off. That coyote always kept 1-hill between them[cat/mouse].
[ April 04, 2007, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2007 02:34 PM
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted April 04, 2007 02:54 PM
quote:
Now if you was a nice guy you could of parked the vehicle so the coyote had his eyes on you and not the approaching hunters direction. Its kinda like decoying, use the vehicle to distract the coyote..
This is one of my favorite tricks when doing a push for muley's. We park the truck in an area we don't want the deer to move into.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 04, 2007 04:50 PM
2 dogs,
Let me see if I got this right. You were 1/2 mile away from a coyote and watched him for 1 hour continuously to see that he didn't turn his head one time? Is that correct?
First, I can't see how you could see a coyote's direction of sight from that distance.
Second, I can't understand why anyone would watch a bedded coyote for an hour without figuring out how to sneak up on them and shoot them. YOU HAD AN HOUR!
Different strokes I guess.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 04, 2007 05:37 PM
Wiley,
Close to an hr. Perhaps 40 minutes or so. Some coyotes I spot. If I don't have permission on that land. I'll often just sit glassing them. If I haven't spotted one on permissioned land to go in on. Farmers are often not home around here.
As for that coyote turning it's head. I suppose that coyote could've slightly. But from my view spot & distance. It didn't look like it to me.
Actually, I've watched many coyotes for quite awhile from 1/2 mile away with my binocs or spotter scope. As long as they don't go into "flight mode". Then often they will fixate on a distant stimuli. Often it's me sitting in my truck watching them from the gravel roadway.
Other's will bolt hard or walk away when I view them, especially if I slow down or stop. While other coyotes will either sit & stare back @ me or continue on about their business[hunting/playing, whatever], occasionally looking @ me.
Depends on that coyote.
[ April 04, 2007, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted April 04, 2007 06:29 PM
You seemed a bit pissed that I didn't eat your pointer like candy, Wiley.
It kind of struck me as odd that you said, "you're welcome" at the end of it like you did me some kind of favor, though. I believe a 3rd grader could decipher the more and differing prints equals more coyotes equals core area or travel route equals good calling location puzzle. Thanks for the tip! I guess.
Will the next grandios nugget you pleasure me with be that coyotes love to bed in briars or on islands in the middle of agricultural fields on the south facing slope when the prevailing wind direction is out of the west. Or that many coyotes will travel north to south or vice versa when the prevailing wind direction is from the east or west. Because they know that prey animals will usually travel with the wind at their back or quartering?
P.S. I'm just bustin' your balls a bit.
[ April 04, 2007, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2007 07:05 PM
[ March 28, 2010, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted April 04, 2007 08:46 PM
TA, my post was mostly written tongue in cheek.
I am a firm believer that terrain features, cover and a feeling of safety have more to do with travel routes and bedding location than wind direction ever will. Those comments were made in jest. Do they use the wind? Sure, but not to the extent that I was asserting. You know from your experience in tracking coyotes that they travel with purpose for the most part, they don't dick around regardless of wind direction.
It is a pretty good bet that ALL animals, not just coyotes, will only bed where they feel safe.
Scat is my favorite sign to go by. If they are pooping at Point A there is a reason. I just have to figure out where Point B and C are.
Like I said it was just a bit of ball bustin'.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2007 10:14 PM
ok
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 04, 2007 11:21 PM
Yeah, but why?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 05, 2007 05:13 AM
If they are pooping at Point A there is a reason
Yep, when you gotta go, you gotta go.
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 05, 2007 05:26 AM
Sometimes I wonder if a coyote almost has the ability to turn the "gain" up on its hearing.Depending on what they are doing at the time. May just be associated with the level of caution or attention they are at a any particular time.I have seen them numerous times turn and come to a mouse squeaker with a 25 to 30 mph wind blowing in my face at almost a 1/2 mile.
I have often seen coyote trail single file in snow conditions that make it very difficult to tell there are 2 in the same tracks.They can nail each others foot prints very precisely and when there is no definition in the bottom of the track, your first indication of multiples is when the traiing coyote splits out.Then try to trail the downwind coyote although they seldom seperate by more than a few dozen yards.Thanks
[ April 05, 2007, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 05, 2007 05:42 AM
6mm
That's one thing I've never seen.
Greenside
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted April 05, 2007 05:42 AM
quote:
I have seen them numerous times turn and come to a mouse squeaker with a 25 to 30 mph wind blowing in my face at almost a 1/2 mile.
I have seen them hear things that they shouldn't have been able to hear but c'mon now ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ April 05, 2007, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: nd coyote killer ]
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted April 05, 2007 06:24 AM
"I have often seen coyote trail single file in snow conditions that make it very difficult to tell there are 2 in the same tracks."
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6mm284,
I think maybe this happens mostly when snow gets pretty deep. One old method of trapping coyotes in the snow was to bury a trap directly under a coyote track. It is amazing that a young feller like you would know about things like this. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 05, 2007 06:25 AM
Just because a coyote is not moving his head, does not mean he is staring, or that his eyes are even open.No different than humans although coyotes most likely have acute peripheral vision.
Wiley,, I too must be a dumb ars, as I will watch coyotes for extended periods of time before making amove. It is waiting for the right timing.Here in midwest where calling is not involved , timing is part of the plan. Not uncommon to leave a coyote alone for several hours before returning to make my move. May be waiting for wind to come up or go down ,or for the coyotes level of caution to go down.Any number of factors that affect timing. Often there is no way to get in undetected if you immediately start in.Many coyotes at 1/2 mile or even more will not accept your presence.Sometimes another coyote will appear that you were not even aware was involved.thanks
(Disclaimer, This in no way defends or agrees with 2dogs)
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 05, 2007 06:44 AM
Hi Rich, Yeh, the snow deep enough and loose enough to fall in the tracks obscures what is going on in the bottom of them. It seems it is a narrow range of snow depth, Deep enough but not to deep. If it gets up towards the leg joint then the hole tends to get hogged out a little more and makes one a little more suspicious of how many coyotes are involved.As it then gets shallower and less snow falls in the track, it kind of starts to tell more. I am sure you have seen it all.
You know how much is to be seen and learned"in the tracks".Sometimes it is more a feeling than a knowing which track is good and which is not. I Learn alot when I spend an entire day behind a coyote that I never even see.Doesn't happen often but it does happen every year or two.I think you have lots of experience with the whole calling aspect of coyote hunting along with the whole midwest aspect of tracking etc. I can tell many of the very accomplished callers(lightyears ahead of me)have never really had the opportunity to try it "our way".I have learned alot about coyotes in calling different parts of the west that I can work into understanding behavoir here a little better, although it is quite different.I don't know how well it works going from hunting here to calling there and trying to blend the two.thanks PS Beware of the Terror of
Shelby County!!!!!!!!!1
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 05, 2007 06:45 AM
[ March 28, 2010, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 05, 2007 06:54 AM
Ta17, It is interesting how much of what you relate is my same experience. Helps me to think either I am doing something right or someone else is doing something wrong just like me.Simliar environments shape similar hunting techniques.I can about tell someone's location by such, altough you are a little further north and east than I had guessed.Thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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