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Author
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Topic: Hard chargers
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 26, 2010 07:29 PM
For me, early on, WOOF works pretty well. As the season gets along, WOOF don't do crap. In fact, for the main part of the middle of the season, WOOF ain't necessary as the first look you get at a coyote around here is a set of ears doing the Kilroy thing from a distance as the coyote(s) recon prior to the approach. In the late season, you can try to WOOF them, or anything else, but in most cases, we simply get on them then disclose our location by WOOFING loudly. Sometimes they stop. Sometimes they don't. Most times, they make a rapid transition from "Free food! Free food!" to "Oh shit! Oh shit!" The former is characterized by running in with their heads up, bellies off the ground offering a better target, because the latter is often not unlike a furry little torpedo going mach 4 with their legs straight out to the sides like the oars on a boat eating up turf, getting the F outta there, aka, tough target. Thus, we just try to shoot on the approach rather than waiting for them to figure chit out because once you hit "oh shit!", things go to hell.
Couple weeks ago, Kevin and I were sitting with our backs to a berm covered in sunflower stalks. A coyote backdoored us on Kevin's side coming right through the farmer's yard to get to us. He swung by at our 3 and pegged our silhouettes at which time he assumed a streamlined form with his pecker dragging in the dirt and that aforementioned boat oars leg thingy. Kevin yells "WOOF", which of course, did nothing. He shot, I shot, he shot, I shot, all at a coyote still inside the forty yard mark running from left to right. Carnival duck shoot on acid and a very low percentage shot. I finally just racked a third shell and repositioned my sticks to well ahead of where he was knowing he was headed for a low water crossing in the trees in front of us and waited for him to intersect my line of sight at about 120 yards, me yelling "No you don't you sonofabitch" and Kevin yelling "NOOOOoooooooo....",BANG-BANG,WHOP-WHOP!, Cartwheels. Doubletapped him. I don't care what you say - that there was funny. At least, we both laughed.
[ February 26, 2010, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 26, 2010 08:43 PM
Hmm? Loco, where I come from Flaco means skinny or bony and that's not me. What you smokin'? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Lance, we had a couple of those too, but instantaneous and/or simultaneous. Always cool.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 27, 2010 08:47 AM
Cal said:
quote:
But seriously, I just shoot them. A coyote, even at a slight angle coming in isn't that tough of target inside 80 yards or so.
That used to be my take on it too. For a lot of years, I just didn't understand what all the fuss was about. To me, a running coyote, inside a hundred yards, was a pretty big, slow, easy target. Just shoot 'em!
That was then though. This is now... Sad, sorry fact is, I can't shoot like I used to. Those running coyotes that used to seem so easy, are starting to seem pretty hard. I'm finally starting to understand what everybody was talking about...
Stuff like deteriorating eye sight and reflexes play a part, I'm sure. But the real reason, is simply a lack of trigger time. Where as I used to take upwards of 10,000 shots a year at live varmints, I don't think I've taken more than a few hundred a year for awhile now.
Proof being in the pudding, it really has taken a toll on my skill.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted February 27, 2010 09:00 AM
LB, that coyote have an alien inside??
Most of the hard chargers females on your hunt, using distress or vocalizations?
Female numbers taken this time of year is usually higher for the simple fact that most males left are hooked up or trying to get hooked up. Then factor in that most of the young males are taken early in the season as they tend to be the most agressive to the call and the male to female ratio tilts toward momma.
The young females seem to be more agressive to the call, IMO, because they have not had the crap beat out of them like the young males have this time of year. Single males this time of year are pretty careful moving across country that has older breeding coyotes in it. Coming to the top of hills and looking both ways behind etc. Howl at those and they tend to freak out. Had one sneak in on me and I did not see him at 200 yards and hit a howl on the caller while seeing him and he about shit his pants, froze, layed down his ears, tail went down. He was going to leave real quick and quiet.
I usually see more agressive responces in older mated pairs or groups with older coyotes in them using vocalizations in this timeframe. The ones that maybe slow down to a fast walk quatering to get the wind and will take any terrain they can find to hit the wind once they figure out something isn't right. Usually where I sit away from the caller. A coyote distress at that point will usually stop them for an instant but you better be quick. I am working in wide open country and any shot with 200 yards is what I am looking for. You guys huntin in the thick stuff have a whole different ball game. I often watch approaches from over a mile etc.
I have tried the woof and had it work, cussed a blue streak, yelled coyote, howled with my voice, lip squeaked, etc. Some of those side walkin lookin at ya older coyotes just have to be shot on the move or you won't get a shot.
I had a group of three with another single shadowing on the river ice last nite, the older male would charge to the call then realize when he left contact of the female the third coyote would try and breed her. He would run back nip him off and then start the same routine again and again until they finally made it to me. Must have come close to a mile. Stopping and sniffing to the bitter end.
Then sometimes it's all just a trainwreck and you just enjoy the crash!!!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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sparkyibewlocal440
Knows what it's all about
Member # 397
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posted February 27, 2010 09:00 AM
Man I hate the hard chargers that won't stop for nothing. Really pisses me off when I miss or worse yet,to nick one and have it run off. Unless it's coming in straight on flat ground, I will stay motionless and let it run up to me, allowing it to flare off. Sitting on an elevated stand gives me the advantage of being able to track them till it stops, which usually is around the 300 yard mark. All the while they are running away, I'll bark which tends to bring them to a stop. As their run turns into a lope, that's your clue he's about to stop. Have your rifle shouldered and in the sticks before it pauses, because it's not going to stand there very long. One of the reasons they'll charge your position when using hand calls, is calling too much.They've easily got you pinned by too much sound and/or they have seen your movement when blowing on the call and anticipate that movement for it's meal. Use a longer interval between series. Make them search for you. Using a remote caller puts the odds in your favor for this reason. A good reason to have a laser for a rifle. You don't have the time to judge how many "football fields" away he is when it finally comes to a stop. He's going to look like a long ways out there,when it's actually only 300 or so.....
Posts: 170 | From: So. Cal | Registered: Sep 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2010 09:47 AM
That's a good question, Randy. We were using howl vocals for a while, but noticed that it seemed to have a negative effect, especially after taking note of the majority of females, bordering on exclusively females, and none of them looked like alphas except one that came in with two others, in front, and died. She was in estrus. The boys got away despite vigorous effort on our part. That was the only multiple in four days of calling. And, it was the first stand? Go figure?
Yeah, Gary. My 223 Ackley was criticized by my partner when I lost a cripple. I tend to agree, but previous performance had been dead coyotes without exception. (if I do my part... yuck yuck) I thought he/she was centered on the chest and facing the call at a 15-20 degree angle to me, but the bullet destroyed the off shoulder and that sucker ran pretty good on three legs. Probably missed lethal by an inch?
This was a CS24 and one of the sounds we were using had variable volume built into the sound. For the most part, I really didn't like that feature, but it accomplished what you suggest, other than the fact that these coyotes were basically uncalled and had the sound pinpointed early on.
I very much like the CS24, I have hunted with Vic Carlson who also uses one and I am very impressed. The fact that it looks like the one Scott Huber uses, and the one that Albert Pilling uses, which are WT units, well, that's a curious coincidence, ain't it?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 27, 2010 10:40 AM
No coincidence about it LB.
I believe the CS24 was born on the TPP in the heat of battle.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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predatorhunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3559
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posted February 27, 2010 11:11 AM
If they all looked like the one you were holding, the reason they were charging was because they were starving to death. Our foxes are bigger than that! You just need to wave the AJ bottle at them to get them to stop.
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In efforts to conserve electricity,the light at the end of the tunnel has now been turned off!
Posts: 76 | From: kentucky | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2010 12:05 PM
If you guys take another look at that last pic, you will notice that the terrain didn't lend itself to straight line approaches. Irregular ground and bushes everywhere, they couldn't charge in (like might be more common) in the one above that Randy posted. These were a little harder to get on and stay on, we missed a few. If not for the habit of getting a little elevation whenever possible, we might have let a few more get away.
To tell you the truth, (ahem) we did a pretty good job of it. I'm just whining because every one was a challenge of some sort. There were no "gimmies". I shot when I shouldn't have, and didn't when I should have, a few times, (you know that tune), but all in all, I'm not ashamed of our efforts, by any means. My partner made some impressive shots and I don't think I let him down too much. Except, I was really hurting and I know I slowed him down a little bit. I have a bad knee and back pain and a real painful hip flare up, but other than that, even the bone spurs on my heels were painful. Didn't help that I was short of medication. Cripes, sounds like I'm getting old, donut?
Still, a very enjoyable hunt.
Thanks AR!
(And he's camera shy! Who knew?)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted February 27, 2010 02:50 PM
I hand call and have had lots run over me. I carry a shotgun though and it has saved my butt more than once. I have missed some though with my shotgun mostly I think from being over choked.
But sparky makes a good point about calling too much. I'm probably guilty of doing that as Im always pushing it hoping that coyote way out there is going to hear me.
I don't mind shooting running coyotes that are straight on but I have an aversion to shooting ones going left to right. Mostly because of lack confidence in my shooting ability.
Jeremy Gugelmeyer
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2010 03:14 PM
I think you are not alone, Jeremy.
Most right handers are a little more challenged on a running shot going from left to right. The further right he gets, the more difficult. I try to sit in such a way that limits the amount of twist required on those shots. Going the other way, I'm a lot more flexible. Just the physiology of the situation.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 27, 2010 06:16 PM
When yer skimin' the cream off those locked Texas gate properties, the chargers and those that stumble over you just have to be tolerated buddy. Just shoot em....there's more around the next locked pasture.
Posts: 1630 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2010 08:05 PM
Ooh, snotty, snotty naughty boy!
Just for the curiosity factor, Vic. Actually, it was considered a favor.
However, I have been waiting for you to chime in, and it has taken far too long!
Seems to me that you see a lot of the same thing, they flare in, swap ends and line out while you put a bullet in 'em?
I'd like to know what, if anything, you do to stop hard chargers? Your advice is requested. Could you expand on "Just shoot em...." a little bit?
How's it going? If the time was right, I planned on stopping in, but I was passing through a little past midnight and I know it was a work night.
Maybe next time?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 28, 2010 07:36 AM
How'd ya know it was Texas? I rag on those locked gates as much as anybody, I have not exactly abandoned my principles. I just won a free hunt in a box of Cherrios. Who could resist?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 28, 2010 07:39 AM
The Texas give away, was the soil, that white alkali you see so much of down there.
Posts: 1630 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 28, 2010 08:13 AM
That's it? That's all we get out of you? Alkai?
What I have noticed is that you let them come in but then shoot them while they are lining out. Is that intentional or accidental? Are you expecting them to stop? Do they ever stop, down there? I remember having to shoot one through a tree, at the "discarded stool" stand. He was stopped, but a lot of them aren't.
What percentage do you have to make running shots, and how many are stopped? You know, roughly, like when you whisper; "this is an 80% stand" which gets the juices flowing! You must have a number?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted February 28, 2010 02:06 PM
Hey LB, I'm headed for Texas on Wednesday to a little private ranch to do some hog huntin and coyote huntin for a few days. I postponed once due to weather, but I think its on for sure now. Its a small place but I think we may do OK. It goes by the name of King or something like that. The guy that runs the archery hunting and their biologist were up here hunting antelope last fall with Murphy Love and I got invited along on a return trip. Steve Dillon is going to meet us there to try to do a little coyote recording. I guess they basically have an un hunted population. Might be fun.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 28, 2010 02:13 PM
Cal you lucky bastard! Coyotes and hogs on the King Ranch? Cant beat that.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 28, 2010 03:47 PM
Hope y'all have fun, and that Steve gets some good recordings!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 28, 2010 05:03 PM
You have to remember Leonard; I had a guest along, so I never shoot at coyotes unless the guest gets handcuffed or misses and the coyote is "lining out". Interestingly, I do find it easier, at least for me and my feeble shooting, to hit a going away coyote, than one charging in hard. Coyotes coming in, have a habit of ducking,dipping thru brush, zig-zagging etc, but when they hit high gear to get out of Dodge, they most generally leave in a straight line, for me, it's almost like hitting a stationary target, I just aim for the root of the tailhead?
Like Dave mentioned, back when I too, was shooting thousands of rounds a year at everything imaginable, instead of a couple hundred now, I could pull off some pretty fair trick shots as you call them, nowdays, I have to be a bit more measured in my shooting attempts now, or at least if I expect to hit anything.
As for runners versus stoppers Leonard, man, if I had to toss out a guess, Id have to say maybe 3 or 4 out of every 10 never stop moving their feet,and usually I can tell they aren't, so it's no surprise, and Im ready to take a shot if Im going to, and not be hurried about it, as I would if I was expecting them to stop.
Posts: 1630 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2010 12:34 AM
Well, you know. It's just a difficult adjustment from all those tame ones on the ***********
Thanks for the explain, Amigo. Does your email work, btw?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 01, 2010 05:52 AM
Take this for what it's worth / your mileage may vary;
One of my 'regular' stands is up on a hillside overlooking scattered mesquite. It's a rifle stand. The caller goes about 75 yards below me up in a joshua tree that gets misted every time. The idea is to make that tree a scent post when I'm not there.
Saturday last, I had a hard charger come in all of the way and stand up on it's hind legs trying to get to the caller. It circled the tree twice & was one confused puppy.
Now, THAT'S entertainment!!!!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted March 01, 2010 08:04 AM
Bark or lip squeak. If that doesn't work, I'm getting some practice at a running shot. Hard chargers is why I like to use a mouth call when hunting with someone else that I can trust to NOT shoot me. It helps get my blood to circulating. Having a someone shooting at me gets my blood going way too fast.
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Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1926 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2010 09:17 AM
quote:
Having a someone shooting at me gets my blood going way too fast.
I can well imagine! Is this mostly from bank jobs or jealous husbands? If it's from your hunting companions, you need quit screening them at happy hour at the local pub.
Good hunting. elbe
edit: KOKO, you need to get your entertainment with an end zone dance after just one circle. Let's not lose sight of why we are here, dude!
[ March 01, 2010, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 01, 2010 10:52 AM
Leonard;
I like to stay in control & prolong the moment. Makes the afterglow that much better.
There are two things that old men just look silly doing; jogging and end zone dancing. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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