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Author
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Topic: Locating or not locating before you hunt?
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 05, 2007 07:13 AM
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted April 05, 2007 08:06 AM
6mm284,
The "Terror of Shelby County"? That sounds like Myrtle B. Terror of Shelby county. Yep. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 05, 2007 08:57 AM
Smithers: "You seemed a bit pissed that I didn't eat your pointer like candy, Wiley."
Why would I be pissed and how could you recognize pissed over a computer screen?
If you know enough about coyote sign to know that the best locations have tracks of different sizes and ages going different directions, sorry I bored you. Didn't realize you knew so much. Your vast knowledge is certainly not reflected in your coyote take.
Smithers: "It kind of struck me as odd that you said, "you're welcome" at the end of it like you did me some kind of favor, though."
Most guys don't read sign beyond a track or a turd to determine age, direction, and different coyotes. Sorry I mistook you for someone less experienced.
Smithers: "I believe a 3rd grader could decipher the more and differing prints equals more coyotes equals core area or travel route equals good calling location puzzle. Thanks for the tip! I guess."
Hahaha! ah.....ok?
Smithers: "Will the next grandios nugget you pleasure me with be that coyotes love to bed in briars or on islands in the middle of agricultural fields on the south facing slope when the prevailing wind direction is out of the west. Or that many coyotes will travel north to south or vice versa when the prevailing wind direction is from the east or west. Because they know that prey animals will usually travel with the wind at their back or quartering?"
No, I won't bore you with any more tips since you have it all figured out. Suprisingly, I can't understand why your vast knowledge is not reflected in your take.
~SH~
[ April 05, 2007, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted April 05, 2007 09:18 AM
quote:
I should also mention that I'm the last person to hear a distant reply, my hearing is so bad.
Man but ain't that the truth...
Every time I hunt with anyone else, they ALWAYS hear coyotes that I can not hear at all.
In fact, now that you mention it Leonard, I really wonder just how much utility I could possibly get out of locating, considering that I can't hear them unless they are practically on top of me? Certainly, I can't hear them from any further away than what I would expect them to at least be possible to bring in.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 05, 2007 09:20 AM
Many possible reasons, Scott. He might be taking pictures, like Higgins? Maybe he's not a world class sharpshooter, like our other "worth knowing" member, Dan Cary? Maybe he's not truthful? I get the feeling that he enjoys the ball busting reparte'. Could be, like that bear joke we have all heard........ he ain't here for the huntin'?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31467 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 05, 2007 09:26 AM
quote:
In fact, now that you mention it Leonard, I really wonder just how much utility I could possibly get out of locating, considering that I can't hear them unless they are practically on top of me? Certainly, I can't hear them from any further away than what I would expect them to at least be possible to bring in.
- DAA
Exactly!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31467 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 05, 2007 09:37 AM
Catchin up here fellas!!!
Wiley remember these Iowa coyotes are a breed you have no experience with, a higher educated critter only harvested by the top 10 percent of the nations callers!LOL Remember some places have four landowners per single section, like workin east river.
I am just kidding, I was an Iowa caller get your hackles down!!
2 dogs I know exactly what you are talking about, belly crawled on many a coyote or red fox for many years with eyes and ears focused almost nonstop in the same direction.for long periods of time.2 dogs are you in the flat 1 by 1 mile Iowa country or the rougher part, rollin hills woods etc.
TA you have me confused, not uncommon for me, but at first you state the presence of them watching gave the hunter away and then you want them to show a presence to distract them from approaching danger?I don't want a coyote to have any idea I'm there or anybody else if I'm callin or stalking it may help on rare occasions but it will hurt you more than help ya.
I do agree that at certain times a coyotes senses seem to be at a higher level than others. I think at times especially hearing they do try to shut it down somewhat due to wind noise or what ever existing noise around them to sleep relax whatever. Imagime the amped hearing they have and yourself trying to sleep hearing every little squeak sound etc.I think they close or restrictng the amount of sound into the ear canal accordingly. A squeaker at a half mile on a fairly calm day you bet. Litle tougher with a bedded coyote but that may be because he just wants to stay sleepin, an up and movin coyote sure.
Smithers I would assume wind direction, location of the coyotes and permission would be a real issue for you too. With limited open cover to call them out into. Finding bedding areas with open cover nearby to work them would be crucial. The sign Wiley referred to would indicate one should be nearby.
The one thing I notice that will reduce much of my locating sucess is WIND, not a gail force, even a 5-10 mph. Any time of the year.Calm quiet nights here are rare but your responces go up a ton!Not earthshattering stuff to anyone,but I think it is because the locating sound travels farther envoking more vocal reponces in coyotes farhter away that normally wouldn't hear it and respond to it and this in turn winds up the closer groups that may otherwise be more willing to respond visually.My spin on it.
Same goes for no moon nights, I get more vocal responces at this time. Once again more vocal to visual because of low light.I guess a calm quiet no moonlight night will give you a good handle on the numbers in your area.Yes many of these coyotes are far from where they will be come first light. Some not. It's information on numbers in the area and you still are going to have to relate this to the country. If you have hunted it before you know where you will work them from come daybreak, if it is new country some additional locating may be benefical.
These two examples would be when I am checking country for numbers not only for hunting that next morning, just numbers in a given area to then plan a hunt on in the near future.I have areas that hold coyotes all the time and some that fill up, and clear out off due to weather, houndsman, hunting seasons etc.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 05, 2007 09:47 AM
Leonard-aw wait a minute phone ringin- no its just the ringin in my left ear!!!!
I've got to turn the TV volume higher or lower to what ear is not buried in the pillow!!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 05, 2007 10:13 AM
The one thing I notice that will reduce much of my locating sucess is WIND, not a gail force, even a 5-10 mph. Any time of the year.Calm quiet nights here are rare but your responces go up a ton!Not earthshattering stuff to anyone,but I think it is because the locating sound travels farther envoking more vocal reponces in coyotes farhter away that normally wouldn't hear it and respond to it and this in turn winds up the closer groups that may otherwise be more willing to respond visually.My spin on it
RR, but you might have to take into account that you would only be hearing the upwind coyotes on the windy nights.
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 05, 2007 10:22 AM
[ March 28, 2010, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5070 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 05, 2007 10:27 AM
Randy R,
West-central 1/2 of Marshall County, Iowa. All rolling cropland hills[very little cover]. Mostly 1-square mile sections. Occasional, 1x2 or 2x2-square mile sections.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 05, 2007 10:27 AM
Smithers: "Scat is my favorite sign to go by. If they are pooping at Point A there is a reason. I just have to figure out where Point B and C are."
How can you know so much about tracks yet are unable to determine Point B and Point C from the tracks and scat at point A? If you need any help, let me know. Certainly wouldn't want to tell you anything you already didn't know.
Oh, silly me, you were just "ball bustin" weren't you? Almost forgot!
Smithers: "Like I said it was just a bit of ball bustin'."
You call that "ball bustin'"? I equated it more with being run over by a baby buggy.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 05, 2007 10:45 AM
Coyote hearing; A balled-up coyote facing downwind, that is laying on a hillside. Wind ripping hard onto & over the coyote's backside.
You look @ that coyote's head. It's even or below it's back, which the wind is baring down on. The wind is not going into the coyotes ears. Even more so, when their laying tucked in on a draw or waterway.
The "front" of their ear's, are protected from the wind directly blowing into them. IMO, this reduce's perpheral sound distortion or any distortion period. Of any sound they may hear.
Not hard to understand even on windy days they hear so well.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 05, 2007 11:26 AM
Greenside, exactly not only what the coyotes don't hear but me also.
With wind my locating is heard by coyotes closer to me who tend to respond visually more than vocally, I think the coyotes further away on a calm night trigger a vocal responce on these same coyotes.
2 dogs- I understand he doesn't shut down his hearing totally just enough to make his world quiet enough to rest or whatever. He has the ability to focus his ears towards a sound or not to improve or not the amount of sound entering the canal. Very rarely you will see one on a really windy day turn facing into the strong wind for an extended period of time, I think its because of the fact its uncomfortable noisy etc.If he picks up something on the wind yea but even then you'll see the ears turn away from the wind as he goes.
2 dogs sounds like the same Iowa i came from, I'll bet your callin takes it in the shorts once you get a little snow and the local horse and pony show starts huntin.
TA still not sure about your tactics but whatever floats your boat.
Greenside how'd you get a budweiser.com address?I'm jealous!!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Randy R,
Callin isn't real productive in my area[when I do call in my area] it's close to cover[timber patch's]. But over East in Tama County it's much better, alot more cover, larger sections & more coyotes.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted April 05, 2007 11:47 AM
2dogs
quote:
Callin isn't real productive in my area[when I do call in my area] it's close to cover[timber patch's
What makes you say that calling is "unproductive" in your area? I'm just tring to get a feel for the area that you're hunting
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 05, 2007 12:21 PM
RR
Just go to budweiser.com and get yourself a free e-mail address. Sounds better than hotmail and it keeps the spam off my business and personal e-mail accounts.
Dennis
[ April 05, 2007, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted April 05, 2007 12:29 PM
"No, I won't bore you with any more tips since you have it all figured out. Suprisingly, I can't understand why your vast knowledge is not reflected in your take."
1)I never claimed to have VAST knowledge of coyotes. I learn more every day and every time out. I have been predator hunting for 7 seasons. Not too vast or as vast as some others.
2)My coyote take has a lot more to do with limited time to hunt, apparent low coyote population and daily coyote movement.
We have, in my area, a mediocre coyote poulation at best. Their movement is limited, for the most part, to the middle of the night.
99.9% of the land that I hunt is Public Land. Calling them from their safe havens on private land is my best shot.
"Many possible reasons, Scott. He might be taking pictures, like Higgins? Maybe he's not a world class sharpshooter, like our other "worth knowing" member, Dan Cary? Maybe he's not truthful? I get the feeling that he enjoys the ball busting reparte'. Could be, like that bear joke we have all heard........ he ain't here for the huntin'?"
Not taking pictures, definitely not a sharp shooter, good bow shot though out to 70 yards. Always truthful. If I was not truthful I would have told you I took 48 coyotes instead of the one I took this year. I called in 18 or so and shot 1. Some called in without a weapon. Ball busting livens things up for me. I am here for the hunting and to see how the other half lives.
I wouldn't say if the coyote population were higher that I would put up giant numbers but I might. I have called places in MI where they should have been easy pickings and fallen on my face. The cards fall in my favor some years and others they don't.
[Edited for spelling] I proofread after I post or after lunch!
[ April 05, 2007, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 05, 2007 01:04 PM
nd coyote killer,
Rolling hills. Hills are mostly[80%]or so corn. The rest bean fields. A few CRP patch's or Hayfields. Some thinly lined timber patch's/strips in the draws or on a hillside or along a creek.
The creeks are grassy/weeded mostly, so are most of the field draws/waterways. When I sit on a high hill. Generally I can see a couple miles on the horizen.
Coyotes in my area, are VERY reluctant to step out into the open. Ony one came in close on an open hayfield. It was very harsh out -28WC. I'm thinking he was pretty hungry.
A few others responded in the open, but swung wide or hung-up way out there. Otherwise were indifferent.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 05, 2007 01:30 PM
2 Dogs do you notice certain cornfields when the bean harvest is about over and the corn harvest starts the coyotes like. Do you ever have any sucess calling them out onto the open bean stubble. Once all the corn is out and the pheasant season and deer season roll along with the pickup merry go round they sure will get rearranged and timid.
I always gave it heck to get them around the cornfields once the beans came out. I knew it would be short lived though.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 05, 2007 04:19 PM
Randy R,
What I notice, is "when" their laying out. The locals pick corn. I stalked in on a large light gray nomad this last Fall & Winter. That coyote bedded in a bean field. Coyote bedded in almost the exact same spot, over & over.
Bean fields were loud last Fall. Played heck getting close. I watched where I planted each foot on the slow stalk in. As well as listened to each of my foot steps for noise, before planting my foot firmly.
I slowly crawled my last hill. As I peeked over. Coyote was eyeing me from afar, every time, but once. I creased his shoulder & spun him that day.
Each of these stalks was in a high quartering wind.
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A territorial pair, will often bed in the same focal area, when their laying out in the open.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 06, 2007 07:43 AM
2dogs, I'm not trying to go Huber on ya, but when you see these bedded coyotes isn't there a place nearby you could call them to you vs. you going to them in less than ideal conditions.
I grew up there sneakin on red fox with either a 22 or a shotgun after glassin and finding them, then I started calling them ,the ones I had found the same way and it was much easier. From time to time especially reds may not come but then you had the option of a sneak attack!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 06, 2007 09:06 AM
RR
There seems to be a general consensus on these boards that coyotes can't be called in country like this.
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted April 06, 2007 09:12 AM
RR and 2dogs, thanks for sharing, it's been very informative. Edit - greenside, a thanks to you also. Been using with a fawn decoy (featherflex brand) myself, modifying it some, hoping to get similar results to yours. :
I know when I spot/stalk, coming from a calling background, I can't leave my calls alone. Old habbits I guess. Long time caller, short time spot/stalker. 2dogs has the opposite background.
I picked up a circe P6 yesterday, the classic green plastic closed reed circe body but with a rodent squeaker voice inside. The P6 call has more volume than the squeeze type squeakers or the squeaker voices installed in the side of some calls (according to tests on the deck and noting the echos from the p6 off the timber starting 100 yards away, the other squeakers didn't have enough volume to echo). I bought it for spot/stalking/calling coyotes, coyotes I spot while sneaking into a calling spot, coyotes that hang up beyond lip squeak range, and also to start and end calling stands. I can see me using this call alot, more than any other call, but we'll see. I've often wanted a louder lip squeek, especially the few times I've spot/stalked a coyote down here, hopefully this new call will fill that nitch.
later,
scruffy
[ April 06, 2007, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted April 06, 2007 01:14 PM
Greenside I had to drive 30-40 miles to get to cover that good.
I'm posting a picture from 1998 with a 100 percent sure this calling thing ain't going to work good friend of mine.All this happen in Iowa.Sibley,George area,maybe it's familar to you?
I went out early on a Sunday morning and found these coyote after light. They were in a creek bottom surrounded by open row crop fields. I called him and asked him if he wanted to drive over and see them come in.He gets there I show him where they are and where we should call from and he's" OK, but if this doesn't work we'll just roust them!" He was and still is one of the biggest coyote pickup hunters known to man!! He had a hangover, hates to walk,and skeptical as hell!We walk out to a fenceline about a quarter mile from the coyotes. This is Feb. timeframe, I howl and in less than five minutes and 5-10 rounds out of his AR he was a believer. This was as old of a female coyote as there is teeth almost gone with a YOY.
I will admit he tried many many times after that to call in others and he never did and really never gave it a real chance to happen. He just doesn't want it that bad. That Iowa country doesn't have the numbers like here but it does have coyotes and you can call them. You won't have the sucess like here but you can kill coyotes. If you were to have made 10 stands in the country described above I doubt at that time of the year any other stands would have produced in that immediate area.Low numbers that time of the year.
I have a nephew there who will call in 10-20-a year another kid just out of college in the same town taking 10 plus and not traveling very far from home. They both don't really go out all that much. It just takes a little confidence and someone to show you it can work to get a person started.
Early fall till first snow was great, gets rough when the pickup boys are rollin, then dennin before the row crops got to tall was great again.I went back this spring to visit family and my youngest son and I took a little ride after dark to see if coyotes were still in the old spots we had four dens located in about 2 hours of locating, had a person wanted to take them he sure could have. The planting had been late and the crops were still short enough to work them when I was there.
How do ya like the long hair?
Greenside is there much calling pressure?You know your country I don't. If in your part of Iowa you can't get them to come in I believe ya!
Wiley you up for a trip to the tall corn state about first week in May,bring the dogs,only problem is the ole pickup boys will want our you know whats for their aerials!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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