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Author
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Topic: Spinners
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 14, 2010 06:00 AM
It's as simple as why I like days off work, big tits and beer.
Why shoot a wildcat, is one of those questions, that if you have to ask, then you just won't understand.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 14, 2010 06:08 AM
Oh, and spinners... I try to shoot them again.
One of the reasons I like to use rifles that let me see shot impact, I want to know instantly, exactly what the outcome of the first shot is.
Even with multiples, I'll keep shooting at the first one until his hash is settled. Won't take my attention off a spinner to get a bullet in another one. That's my method of operation, anyway. I've seen plenty of instances of it being done differently (ignoring a spinner to try for the next one is a bad play, my opinion, and seeing the outcomes has made me stronger in my conviction to do it the way I do...).
Velocity... As already detailed, means nothing, without taking all the other factors into account. Bullet construction chief among them.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 14, 2010 07:38 AM
"It's as simple as why I like days off work, big tits and beer."
Dave, that sums it up quite well! It was also good for a chuckle.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 14, 2010 08:57 AM
I accept the reasons for Improved or wildcat chamberings, although I draw the line at "just to be different". I have to be shown some advantage, as already stated, and it can't be gazillions more dollars for custom dies. In my old age, this shit has to be somewhat practical, or I'm just reverting to a friggin' (and boring) 243. Sometimes, it gets rediculous.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 14, 2010 09:33 AM
I have a couple of AIs. I love them both. I wont have another. I wont do another custom build. I see no reason too. I havent seen a CZ out of the box or a Remington sent to my Smithy for a couple hundred bucks, that wont shoot better than I can and plenty good for hunting. I dont hunt at TA ranges.
So, I will be buying, if I buy anymore, standard chamberings in standard rifles. The only trickin out will be having all the shit done to a Remmy that has to be done to get it to shoot as good as it should out of the box.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 14, 2010 10:11 AM
"Just to be different"
The 7Mag or 280AI?
25-06 or 257Roberts AI?
22-250 or 223AI?
To me that leaves case trimming, stuffing performance in a smaller package, bolt thrust, lack of rules, whatever.
I like Daves answer best.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 14, 2010 10:54 AM
In my own personal experience, I have never seen a better example of advantage than when I used a 220Swift almost exclusively for fifteen years and then had a gun built around a 22-250 Ackley. More efficient, no trimming to length, way higher velocity, absolutely no negatives. I could rave about that chambering, oh wait; I have been, for years! Just don't punch a factory barrel and expect performance. That's not too smart. And, quit with the light bullets, they offer almost no advantage. Step up in class and be very careful about your twist. That's all I got to say.
Good hunting. LB
[ May 14, 2010, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted May 14, 2010 02:24 PM
I don't like beer... but I more than make up for that with my zeal for the other two items on Dave's list. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted May 14, 2010 02:35 PM
Nothing like having premium barrels and chambers cut by a good smith. I decided "less quantity, for better quality" a while back. I'd bet I have sold or traded off, close to 15-20 rifles in the last year or so. I think I left 3 or 4 in that Irish named town in S. AZ. Some, I regret.
The 223AI is still a cartridge I am fond of. The 22-250AI and my 6x47 has the potential to take top spots though.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 14, 2010 02:42 PM
Andy,
I think I am doing just the opposite of you.I don't think I will ever own another factory rifle PERIOD...The advantages are to much with the custom stuff.Better Barrels, tighter chambers,Just better all the way around.IMO I love the wildcats too, yeah sure there is something to being different but thats just a small part of it for me.I look at advantages like better brass,more case capacity than some of the standards yada yada yada. I have especially enjoyed my contender carbine for such projects.A good quality Shilen stainless match grade barrel from MGM for under $400.00 and I'm in business.Sure theres the initial cost of dies and such but hell it's only money right?lol
Hell Cal and Tim have got me really thinking of rebarreling one of my Short action Remington 700's to 20x47 Lapua ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
[ May 14, 2010, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 14, 2010 03:09 PM
quote:
Hell Cal and Tim have got me really thinking of rebarreling one of my Short action Remington 700's to 20x47 Lapua
Chad; If you decide to take the plunge just give Cal or me a holler. I'm still testing a few powders and should be finished with my project about mid summer.. From what I've seen so far it looks like my 22-250 ackley is going into retirement.LOL ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted May 14, 2010 03:35 PM
quote:
Why shoot a wildcat, is one of those questions, that if you have to ask, then you just won't understand.
Yep. This is why I was asking a question...because I didn't understand.
But thanks for all your help and insight.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 14, 2010 04:17 PM
Hell my problem as of late isn't with spending money on custom barrels,it's been with buying more expensive scopes.lol I've pretty much sold all my cheaper scopes because I got spoiled on the higher grade stuff. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
In the last year or so I've bought 3 Ziess scopes,and 2 Swarovski scopes,to either replace the others or put on new setups.lol
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted May 14, 2010 05:26 PM
49,My guess is that the Wildcat boys, have just got to a whole 'nother level. Again just a guess on my part.
Hell the guys at work think I'm a Wildcat guy, LOL because I have a 17 Rem,17 Fireball and a 220 Swift ? I really think its mostly a each to his own kinda deal. Meaning how far does a guy wanna' go ? Whats important to you me and the next guy as far as cartridges go will probably be three different things.
Will I ever do a wildcat ? dunno ? While I've certainly day-dreamed about certain cartridges, I also consider tracking down dies and working brass ect..ect..Just not sure if its worth it to me right now ? Plus it costs money..LOL !
I can see the Ackley Improved thing though, anyway I'm just ramblin' probably no help at all.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 14, 2010 06:04 PM
Dave,
I by no stretch of the imagination consider myself "at a whole nother level". Some guys are I agree but not me.Saying that,I owned a 17 Rem. and that's kinda what got me started into the small caliber thing.I had a 23" factory barrel for my contender and it shot "ok".But what got me thinking was the .17's potential and the high B.C Kindler gold bullets.But the problem was my 17 Rem. was a 1/10 twist and to stabilize the 27,30 grain golds they needed a 1/9 twist.
So do I buy a 1/9 twist 17 Remington,or do I find something different? Well after researching for awhile and hearing so much about how well DAA's 17 Predator was working for him,I got it in my head to look at wildcat versions in 17 cal. I was on woodchuck den one day and saw the 17 Tactical, basically a necked down 20 Tactical.I liked it... MGM barrels made them in contenders,Todd Kindler had the forming dies and the Redding die set for it and best of all Lapua made 20 Tactical Brass and it was damn near as cheap as the 17 Remington stuff.
So really it wasn't that expensive to get into, and not only do I stabilize the high B.C bullets I can run them faster than the 17 Remington and also have the advantage of better brass.
i'm totally agree with Leonard,there has to be an advantage to do it,but it has definitely been worth it for me.....
Good hunting Chad
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted May 14, 2010 07:06 PM
Dave your answer helps plenty.
Thanks for offering all your perspectives, everyone.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 14, 2010 08:08 PM
Am I the only one that kinda likes little titties?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted May 14, 2010 08:26 PM
There's puffies........
and there's perkies.......
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 14, 2010 11:18 PM
As long as they defy gravity, I like em!
Those that act like a slinky, not so much.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 14, 2010 11:32 PM
I like little titties. Just a good handful, or a little less, is just fine with some perky little nips.
As for the custom guns, I forgot one I would like to have. I like my 6.5x55 Swede so well, I always thought I would like to have a nice custom 6.5x284 in a hunting rifle. Nothing too heavy. Mid weight barrel, 26 Inches, stainless and fluted. On a 700 action. Jewel Trigger or something similar. Some kind of nice piece of wood for a stock. Something that looks nice, but I would take hunting anywhere. Make a great all around medium to big game gun. IMHO
So, I guess I lied. I would like something like that.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 15, 2010 12:27 AM
I was thinking about what L B said about a 22-250 ackley with a heavey bullet so i ran some numbers through the JBM calculator just for fun.. This is what I came up with..
22-250 ackly, Sierra 69 gr. matchking 3400 fps.
with a 10 mph wind
100 yds. zero
300 yds -9.1" drift 8.5" energy 918 lbs.
600 yds -71.4 drift 40.1 energy 439.5 lbs.
800 yds -170.6 drift 80.3 energy 262.2 lbs.
20x47 Lapua 50 gr. Berger at 3980 fps with 10 mph wind.
100 yd zero
300 yds -5.8 drift 7.2" energy 920.4
600 yds -49.6 drift 33.6 energy 443.0
800 yds -120.4 drift 67.9 energy 255.6
17 Pred. with 30 gr. Gold at 3900 fps
100 yd zero
300 yds -6.4 drift 8.1 energy 496.6
600 yds -55.8 drift 39.1 energy 217.7 lbs.
800 yds -139.4 drift 80.3 energy 118.6 lbs.
If you look at the wind drift the 20x47 is the least amount and the ackley and 17 Pred. are pretty close to being the same.
As for bullet drop the 20x47 L is lesser than the other two with the 17 Pred running a close second.. Recoil is more manageable in the 17 pred and 20x47 L and makes seeing youre hits pretty easey.. I thought about throwing in a calculation for the 223 fans but did'nt want to hurt their feelings..LOL
I used a JBM calculator and if anyone questions the results they can run the same numbers and see what you get..
[ May 15, 2010, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 15, 2010 06:51 AM
Tim, instead of using the middle of the road 69 gr SMK, try the 75 gr A-max, just to keep it fair.
And go ahead and run the numbers with a 5.56NATO Black Hills load MK262 Mod 0, it uses a 77 SMK and runs 2800fps.
Then when you get all done remember we're mostly callers and less than 100 yards is the most common distance for called coyotes. Once you move past 300 yards, the percentage of shots taken by callers drops off greatly, I'd bet.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 15, 2010 08:12 AM
Also, why not use my actual load that has killed hundreds of coyotes? 65 grain Starke @3925fps.
Damn statistics!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 15, 2010 08:39 AM
I know I've mentioned this a bunch of times before, but one of my good friends uses a very similar load for a lot of his night hunting. He's pushing the "old" (has not been made for years now...) Berger 64 at over 4000 fps. He's a hard core .17 shooter by day, too...
Obviously, that kind of performance can't be duplicated, with any off the shelf, factory setup.
And I could (have) gone on and on about the increased performance and feature sets that can only be had from wildcats.
And all of that makes for some damn fine rationalization. Good explanation for the people who ask "why".
But, for me, and most of the guys I know who've wandered a long ways down this path, rationalization is really all it is. As has been said so many times before, dead is dead and vanilla factory stuff makes dead just fine. Statistics, facts, stuff a wildcat really can do that the factory round can't, it's all well and good, but it really isn't why I do any of it. My real reasons? Like I said, if you don't get it, I can't explain it.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 15, 2010 09:00 AM
I think I know who you are talking about, Dave. It's nice to know that great minds think alike. I'm talking about a very utilitarian application good for at least 95% of what happens on a Nevada night hunt. I could get over 4 grand too, but I back off 1½ grains for zero problems, potential or otherwise. As is, it just does it all. So much superior to my old Swift (which I still have, and keep as a loaner) that it's pathetic.
And, I still have a few boxes of squirreled away 65 and 64 grain Bergers myself.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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