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Author
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Topic: Eastern Coyotes
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Hodgen
Knows what it's all about
Member # 180
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posted February 15, 2005 12:41 PM
Don't worry skinner.
You didn't wind me up any. I just wanted to give folks a glimpse of how my coyote adventure evolved. Plus the fact that I have had exposure and experience to just about every technique discussed here. And a few that hasn't been yet.
I am not a numbers type guy. I get my enjoyment from calling coyotes. Heck I traveled all the way to CA a couple times to hunt with my buddies. The trips coincided with their club hunts and they were taking out some new members for the first time. I spent most the time calling, or on the flipper light for the new guys. I had just as much fun doing that as being on the gun.
As for Tom Bechdal, as I said before I am not that arrogent to call his claims bullshit. But I spent a ton of time running all over PA chasing coyotes, and the ground doesn't show me the concentrations of coyotes to stack up those numbers. You got trappers and houndsmen comming nowhere near those type numbers and their trade is prone to be more productive than calling. And it wouldn't take much to convince me the guy is as good as he claims. 3+ "called" coyotes, "checked in" to one of the weekend coyote contests would satisfy me.
Remember, you got around 5000 guys statewide entering in this contest, and normally the take is about 50 coyotes.
Posts: 59 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2003
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222
Knows what it's all about
Member # 567
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posted February 15, 2005 03:04 PM
quote:
What does Tom claim for numbers? I heard once that he clamed to kill 300 coyotes and fox a season. All called. Rich, how many dead coyotes did you see in his scrap book?
Here is a quote from a web page on Tom:
quote:
“Within the past 10 years I have become a predator hunter in earnest,” said Bechdel. “I have a very high success rate of harvesting Eastern coyote. During the past three years I have harvested 257 coyotes in Pennsylvania and Ohio. The largest was 67 pounds, and the most I have harvested in one day is eight. During the seminar I will cover all 12 months of the coyote’s life, what he does, how he does it, and why. I will also tell how large a coyote can get, as well as what they will and will not eat and all ways of protecting yourself, livestock and pets. This will be an hour well spent to learn about your new neighbor.”
I tend to agree w/Hodgen. Based on my personal experience, I would find it challenging to even come close to some of the # he has attained. There are a lot of seasoned callers, I know, who put their dues in each and every year and may walk away with a handful of sucessful kills. Now on the flip side, If someone spends say 8 hrs a day, year round in persuit, perhaps those numbers are obtainable??? Personally, I do not know of anyone who does that sooo.... I think it would be interesting to hear his take on things.
One interesting note: The results of a recent 5 county NEPA Hunt ( Sponsored by the group which hosted GS) neted 15 yotes. I belive total registered participants where in the low 600. Out of the 15 that were turned in, 5 were called in on sets. Out of the past 3 yrs, this seems to be a good average.
[ February 15, 2005, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: 222 ]
Posts: 10 | From: Pa | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 15, 2005 03:16 PM
Numbers are a yardstick I can relate to....
The single statistic that jumps out at me from that press release is: eight coyotes in a single day!
Put me down, from a <shrug> to VERY DOUBTFUL; at this point, I'm not stradling a fence.
You can hunt every day and stack up some eye poping numbers, annually; but eight coyotes in one day is a damn good day's work, out west.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling, please excuse. BTW, anybody seen Larry Darby, lately? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ February 15, 2005, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 15, 2005 04:15 PM
I agree with Leonard.My all time best with my brother is 9 coyotes in a day.And that was in an area with a VERY high concentration of coyotes.That was 15 minute stands from daylight til dark.And still it seemed like everything had to be perfect.GOOD HUNTING C.O
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 15, 2005 04:46 PM
Leonard,
Now that was funny.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted February 15, 2005 09:19 PM
I guess it really doesn’t matter how many coyotes he or anyone else says they shoot. Saying something is one thing and proving it is another. We need to get Bill Martz and Tom in on this thread to liven things up a bit. LOL I know Bill has met and dealt with Tom before. LOL If I remember right Bill once said that Tom hit him up for a job to promote HIS calls because after “Johnny Stewart” sold out he thought he was out of the loop.
This was a long time ago on “The Shade Tree” so I may be mistaken. If a likable guy like Tom is a great PR man, a dynamic speaker and knowledgeable; who really cares if he is so full of $hit his eyes are brown. LOL If he is selling calls, packing sports shows and keeping everyone happy in the process then I am sure no one would be at all interested in calling his bluff. Especially no one making the money. LOL
Experienced or not, if you are a great salesmen people will listen and believe.
The Internet supports a pretty good roster of “virtual” coyote hunters who rely ONLY on their slick tongues for credibility.
On another note I dug up an old O’Gorman catalog I have (1996-97) and it has a picture of a guy form PA with the initials A. C. that trapped 442 fox, 53 coons, 8 possums and only 5 coyotes. Now that is about 88.5 fox per coyote. Would Toms calling ratio be similar? If it were that would put him at about 7580 fox called and killed per year!! How many did he call in and miss? LOL How many fox does he claim a year?
Hodgen says that basically 1 in 100 guys will check in a coyote in one of there weekend hunts. Is that calling only? Maybe they are having such shitty luck because Tom has them all shot out of PA. LOL
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 15, 2005 09:47 PM
Hey, Quinton. The only way to really find out, is to ask his fur buyer......you remember that one, don't you?
Really, we don't know the man, at all. Could be the real deal? But, it seems like the hardest people to convince, is other easterners. He's stacking up (claiming) western numbers, that's for sure.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted February 15, 2005 11:29 PM
Just like it was yesterday Leonard. Sly reminded me of that one while he hunted with me as well. LOL I figured he was just another ball licking wannabe so I busted his balls a little. Never gave him a second thought for over a year until Byron told me he personally hunted with him and stayed at his home. Byron vouched for him so I wrote him an e-mail one day and apologized for my rude behavior. I didn’t think he would even remember me but he did and now all is well.
I have no problem admitting that I am wrong when I am wrong and will humbly own up to it. I didn’t have to write sly that letter but I did. Sly is a good guy with a heart as big as he is. No one I know puts more work and money into helping under privileged and inner city kids go hunting than Sly.
I think Tom is full of shit and I think you think Tom is full of shit. I even think GS thinks Tom is full of shit but Dale Carnegie would role over in his grave if he ever said something that abrasive. LOL Sorry GS; there I go assuming again. The way you handled yourself in the big GS BM debate on the shade tree left me with the impression you had either read his three books or took the course. Maybe both? I am dying to know! Very classy I might add. No one else I know could keep their composure like that!!
I am a big Dale Carnegie fan myself but I have a lot more fun plying the bad guy. LOL
I am sure old Tom is a nice guy and I am sure I would like him if I met him. It is just rude to flat out call some one a liar if you don’t have proof so for the record I will just suggest that the man is mathematically challenged. LOL How bout dat?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Yellerdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 356
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posted February 16, 2005 04:13 AM
Q-Wagoner,
Mathmatically Challenged or maybe dyslexic.
Say someone went 1-8 on a givin day and wrote it down. Then 1-5 the next two days
When they review the notes later on, they get:
8-1, 5-1 and 5-1.
That gives them 18 coyotes in three days with only three setup. The best being eight on a stand.
Not bad for three days hunting. Even in the target rich east! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Lee Smith
Remember, we meet at dawn.
Posts: 59 | From: Southeastern Michigan | Registered: Jul 2004
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted February 16, 2005 04:36 AM
Q-Wagoner, I had to reach way back in my bag of Dale Carnigie diplomacy to write this reply since you have very erroneously judged me in regards to Tom. I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt until someone can prove otherwise. I would do the same for you. Have you ever heard the phrase "loose cannon on the deck". That phrase came to mind as I read your post.
Consider this in your judgement of Tom. 8 in a day does sound pretty remarkable but if you look at others in the west who have had pretty remarkable days it may not be so impossible to believe.
What is the best take for western contest hunts? What is the most you have heard from friends who have had remarkable days? Do you believe them. I know of many figures that range all the way up to 20+ in a day from reputable guys. Gerry Blair once told me he called 43 in one day. Had he and his friend been shooting for furs that day it is concievable they could have taken a pretty "remarkable" number that day. Would you consider Gerry Blair "full of shit". I don't.
I have another friend who called 28 in one day and took 23. Apply that percentage to Gerry's day and we would all stand in awe. I don't think my very good friend is "full of shit".
And by the way, I did take Dale Carnigie and have read several of his books....and please... don't take this as in your face because we are all on the same team....just think before you speak for others.
For the rest to consider, try to be confident in your own abilities and experience and don't take someone else's claims as an affront to your manliness or calling prowess. If Tom is teaching and promoting the sport effectively then who should give a hoot what his numbers are. You have already heard two very experienced callers who both confirm that he has a very good knowledge of calling. I hope you don't consider us "full of shit".
Q - we really need to have this disscusion around a campfire and enjoy shooting some coyotes together. In spite of your post I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the many good things I have read and others have said about you. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ February 16, 2005, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 16, 2005 05:07 AM
I don't know one way or the other, but it's sure fun to do the math. Would it be possible to shoot 1 coyote day? Average success rate of !0%,25%, or 50% on stands made? How many stands a day can you make? 5,10, 15, 20? How many muliples, maybe 5 or more doubles in a year? Work a couple of litters in July or August and shoot the alphas and 3,4,5 pups. Hunt 365 days a year or do you take Sunday off to go to church? etc.....
I just don't know.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 16, 2005 07:09 AM
Maybe we need to get off this subject? As Quinton and I said previously, it's really not fair to question a man's word, out of hand.
Dang, Q! We don't need Martz to liven things up, do we?
If you ever get the chance to set around a fire with GS, I bet you'd enjoy it..... I wouldn't mind being there, myself. And, he could learn us both a few pointers on diplomacy, I bet.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted February 16, 2005 09:30 AM
Gerald,
Not only did you take that course, you obviously passed it too. HA HA
Q,
I told you not to be such a hard ass. Maybe you need to take a Randy Buker course!!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted February 16, 2005 01:14 PM
…His face went stone cold, snapping his head to look “Q” straight in the eye as he spoke. “I usually wait until the fur is prime before I leave ‘em lay.” was all he said.
It made Q’s eye twitch and tighten his grip on the Swift…
I am always amused when I see “Q” post. Not because of the content. His writing is very good. I always think back to first meeting him. Q rode with me from Phoenix to Silver Springs New Mexico. In all that drive he spoke less than 12 words. Who’d have ever thunk?
[ February 16, 2005, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 16, 2005 02:00 PM
Jay, Jay. You crack me up. When is someone going to publish your short stories?
I spent three days with Q last year. Different one than the guy that rode with you. Q was great company and funny as hell.
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted February 16, 2005 02:51 PM
Jay,
Q was obviously intimidated by your presence. He is always very talkitive with Rich and I, but maybe we are just a little less intimidateing ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted February 16, 2005 03:28 PM
Actually I think it was Fred sitting in the front seat with me.
Coming back we couldn't shut that sucker up!
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 16, 2005 04:30 PM
Damn! Been sitting here since sun up trying to get to the end and I'm almost there.
Kinda hoping I could find the pearl that would explian why my hunting has gone to shit the past two seasons, especially after Christmas. Didn't find it yet. Guess I'll have to write it up to "shit happens".
Gerald, if there's a man in this world that comes off online differently than he is standing in front of you, it's gotta be Q. T&PC isn't usually regarded as a "humor" magazine, but that part under the Nebraska Fur Harvester's Association column that kept listing him as the Public Relations Director was the funniest damned thing I ever saw, month after month.
Q-
Quit pickin' on folks. Well,... most folks. You can still pick on Krusty.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 16, 2005 04:46 PM
Jay, That would explain why Q was so quiet on the ride there. Fred's a big boy, if he was hung over and gave Q the evil eye as he got in the truck, poor Q was probably too scared to speak.
Leonard, You just brought up something that has been on my mind the last 4-5 months. But it deserves it's own thread someday. You might do some thinking on if we want to go hunting in the same place last the last two years, With easy access and a great campsite.
Or, maybe start looking for another good area with a few more coyotes.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted February 16, 2005 06:21 PM
Cdog911, If my aging memory serves me right, I got to meet Q at the Silver City meet. Had a favorable impression of him then and still do.
[ February 16, 2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted February 16, 2005 08:52 PM
HA!! I knew I smelled Dale Carnegie!! LOL His book “How to Win Friends and Influence People” is my favorite. It is like a bible to me. I am sure you recognized it in my posts as well?
I don’t think Gerry is full of it because he was taking pictures on the ****** O,Odam ****** *********** in south central AZ. The old Papigo. No coyote hunting allowed. The other numbers you posted are possible under the right conditions on private ground. I’ll bet that guy only hunts that ranch once a year and probably had a partner?
Big numbers are nearly always shrouded in some kind of unique circumstances.
Right or wrong a coyote hunters skills are judged by how many coyotes they kill in their respective areas. For a guy to make claims like Tom does is in effect telling EVERY coyote hunter in PA and Ohio that he is WAY better than them. Considering Toms highly controversial claims I don’t think it is out of line to call his bluff. I know we shouldn’t take someone else's claims as an affront to our manliness or calling prowess but… If he is claiming to be better than everyone else no matter how indirectly, he should at least cough up some proof.
quote:
I am always amused when I see “Q” post. Not because of the content.
Damn it Jay now you went and hurt my feelings!! ![[Frown]](frown.gif) Not because of the content!!!!!! And where in the hell is “Silver Springs?” LOL I didn’t speak on the way up because I couldn’t see through the smoke. You were chain-smoking cigarettes and Fred was chain-smoking cigars!! By the time I got back to Nebraska I had to get on the “patch” just to keep me from chewing my fingernails off!!!!
Anyway I talked to Bill Martz on the phone tonight to try and refresh my memory about Tom. Interesting. I told him his name came up here on Huntmasters fallowed by some big numbers. I think he is going to post tomorrow and no I didn’t ask him too. LOL I told him he was going to get me in trouble so if the $hit hits the fan it’s not my fault!!!! LOL I am just a spectator now. I will put up my fur and stay tuned. Leave em lay…. Sheesh
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted February 17, 2005 10:26 AM
Quinton,
I have an opening in late July and was wondering if you could, by any chance, make it down to do a little calling.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted February 17, 2005 10:40 AM
Can’t do it Jay! I have prior arraignments. I’ll be in Alaska clubbing baby seals. Will June work for you? I will bring the treble hooks and the Puppy Chow.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Larry Darby
PAKMAN
Member # 558
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posted February 17, 2005 11:41 AM
I'm still here. Just trying to sift through all this good advice. I feel humbled by some of the more experienced hunters here but I'm willing to learn. Gerald I will be at your seminar next week. Look forward to meeting you.
Posts: 5 | From: Mercer PA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted February 17, 2005 01:27 PM
The pleasure will be mine.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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