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Author
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Topic: Whats your favorite shot?? Whats your average shot distance
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 20, 2007 08:16 PM
Idaho registrations are pouring in.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31471 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted March 20, 2007 08:59 PM
I like them 30 yards away, head up, ears erect, and standing still. Much like the one at the top of the page. The shotgun will do the rest. I can’t document it but I would WAG my average distance is within 50 yards. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 21, 2007 05:21 AM
Well, good to hear from you Sly! I'm glad you have a support group. Perhaps they can help you to back your views. I would expect nothing less than a rash of generalizing statements with nothing to back them either. Hope I'm wrong. The posts are all still there. If you plan to simply make generalizing statements, you best be prepared to back them with an actual quote or it will only reveal the egg on your face.
Can't wait to see you divert from having to back your statements regarding your interpretation of me and my posts.
Smithers: "It does make sense to want your percentages higher when you are calling for predation than in contests because someone's livlihood is on the line and because killing the killers is the only way to make it stop."
The pressure is no different between contest hunts and predation. Actually there is more pressure with contest hunts because I can trap, snare, M-44, and aerial hunt coyotes that I botch by calling.
Smithers: "But you seemed to be getting bent out of shape defending your contest results and making it seem your other calling percentages may be lower."
Hahaha! Why would I get bent out of shape defending my contest results? My contest results speak for themselves. If you want to know the variables that contributed to a lower percentage on a certain contest hunt ask away.
St Francis this year? Walking 8 - 10 miles through 6" - 8" of hard packed snow breaking through on every step along with the noise of pulling a calf sled which resulted in only 8 stands for a day when we normally get 12 - 15 stands in. My GPS showed that I was averaging 1.5 - 2 mph. Those arent excuses, they're facts.
What I think is funny is how some guys will sit and evaluate my performance when they don't have the self confidence to put their money on the table. Once I learn an area, I'll compete with anyone anywhere ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, period.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted March 21, 2007 06:20 AM
Oh shit Scott, you`ve done riled the entire Idahoanese nation. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted March 21, 2007 06:50 AM
An e-mail from a friend got me thinking about some of the threads like this. One thing we can all agree on is that no thread or idea goes unscrutinized here, and that to me is a good thing. We have the ability here to call bullshit and debate it all we want (thanks to Leonard's policies). If not for this self policeing attitude this board would be like most of the others where you don't dare challenge another members ideas or bullshit stories or the challenger is booted out. If that were the case this place would just be another predator masters where any high school kid with a imaginative mind can be a coyote killing son of a gun. He can tell everyone what a hunter he is, feed regurgitated information to magazine writers, be a government hunter, or whatever he wants. At least until someone calls his mom. But here we have mostly real coyote hunters, the rest seem to get lost along the roadside. We may not all agree all the time, but it beats the hell out of being forced to agree all the time.
[ March 21, 2007, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted March 21, 2007 07:22 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted March 21, 2007 07:37 AM
Good post Cal.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 21, 2007 07:41 AM
Well, thanks Cal. Appreciate the vote of confidence. Sometimes I wonder if I get more curses than praise, for HM policies?
You guys are always welcome to speak your mind, let the chips fall where they may.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31471 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted March 21, 2007 07:49 AM
Still got your rifle sighted 10 inches high at 200 yards I see, 2dogs.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted March 21, 2007 09:01 AM
I 100% agree with Cal. I have learned more from reading the posts here in the past 2 weeks, than I have ever learned on any other forum. The debating and challenging is what spurs growth and knowledge. Great site Leonard, keep it up.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted March 21, 2007 11:18 AM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 21, 2007 11:34 AM
Iowa?
Wouldn't that be like having the Stanley Cup playoffs in Tahiti?
The Meat Packers Convention, maybe?
Bisbee Billfish Tournament in Iowa? Hardly.
National Corn Harvest Festival? possible
Cow Pie Throwing Championship, (probably the summer's biggest event)
American Idol try outs? (don't hold your breath)
BS convention? Now we're talking!
(Lord, I apologize for that...and be with the starving pigmies in Africa)
But, no campout in Iowa. Too many coyoteX's, for one thing, and it's too centrally located, for another.
Good suggestion, though. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31471 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 21, 2007 12:10 PM
Well Scott,
This debate has jumped track as do most of your debates. It has come down to your opinion vers mine. Your opinion is based on your expieriance without knowledge of the sound or its application. My opinion is based on my expieriance having used and seen this sound in action.
You have stated that I have mislead the reader with misleading information and have done so on many ocations, show me without taking a sentence out of a paragraph{we all know that can change the meaning}where I made any STATMENTS. You can't do it because it didn't happen. Its been YOUR SPIN that has done that, your wanting to make these observations and THOUGHTS of mine into statments that has led us to this place.
Your inability to disprove my thoughts through debate has caused you to change the issue from the validity of a sound to a personal attack on my abilitys and knowledge. Talk about a spin...LOL
You sir have to much time on your hands waiting for the phone to ring.........LOL.. I on the other hand don't have that much time to spend going back to read what You and I have written so I can play your game of cut and past. I have shown you that I too can play the game. Unfortunatly I'm not as articulat as you and don't have as much free time on my hands. So you can wast your time trying to bait me into your world but its just that, a wast of your time.
You thrive on the fight and loose track of what you are fighting over. First it was the name and its implications, then it was the concept,then it was that I was misleading the reader, then it was that it was for profit, then it was about my ability to handle coyotes and so on and so on. Face it Scott, you like to argue.
I spent a few hours sitting at this PC composing a list of arguements and rebuttles for your comments with the cut and past Bullsh** and sat here this morning reading what I had wrote. All I saw in it was more cut and past war and although you dig it, I don't.
You have an explanation for everything you say and that explanation changes as needed to validate what you say. You are very carfull to say things without realy saying them and you are very good at it. You write " words mean things" and you are right, words out of context mean other things and you know that and you are a master at munipulating those words. I on the other hand am not, I just have to say what I think and go from there.
You and all of your yes men jumped on me over my thoughts and when one person from Idaho, that was not solisited by the way, posts something to you about the fact that he is tired of your crap, you turn that into another dig on me. Damn your good Scott......
I want this on the reccord Scott, I'm in no way backing down from you! Not now, not ever, you can't take away my "thoughts or my right to share them" even with your cut and past war.
You can argue over anything you want but arguing over a persons thoughts is ludicrist.
For the reccord: I in no way made any statments I.E. THIS IS WHAT THE COYOTES THINK. I simply said: This is what I "THINK" they are thinking and you have tried to turn that into a statment.... Talk about a spin DR.
Also I never said: this sound is or will ever be better than sounds we already commonly use,:lipsqueek, KIYI, Rabbit and so on. YOU DID THAT SCOTT, not me. I do think it is a sound that will add to the overall ability of coyote hunters everywhere to increse their numbers. Again this is just my thoughts everyone, so as to not have this turned around and used against me later I wanted to clairify it.
You have tried to twist my thoughts into statments and when all was done you found yourself in a war of two different opinions with no winner so it took a "SPIN" to something different and if you change the topic enough you will find yourself on ground where you have the advantage.I.E. cut and past war....
It started out as a good debate and much good has come from it. Unfortunatly it has changed its corse and has become personal, this changes the makup of the debate and floods this board with crap that serves no purpouse. I apoligise to the readers for allowing myself to be draged into a sh** slinging affair and loose track of what is important, "The Sound" and its effectiveness.
Thanks LB for your paitents throughout this war.
Last but not least, Thanks Scott for helping to fule the fire and get people to talking about this sound and trying it for themselfs. As you say: Can't argue with results. People are trying this sound, having some success and then there is the other side that has mixed reactions and more questions than answers, not unlike myself.
This has done what it was suposed to do in that through debate, it has spured peoples intrest and has them trying it. Results speek for themselfs. Now whats needed is time and a better example of this sound for the folks who are trying it. I'm working on that at this time. Time and application will tell the tail in the long run. We will see who has egg on their face then.....
OK Scott, Breath in... Breath out....and run along and wait for the phone to ring, I have piles of crap to get done before My trip and arguing with you over bullsh** is not one of them.
Later
sly
[ March 21, 2007, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: slydog ]
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted March 21, 2007 12:22 PM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 21, 2007 01:03 PM
Very well said Cal.
Posts: 1618 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted March 21, 2007 06:49 PM
quote:
But, no campout in Iowa. Too many coyoteX's, for one thing, and it's too centrally located, for another.
Now I find that very amusing. The subtlety. Simple and effective. Too many coyoteX's! Great.
quote:
What I think is funny is how some guys will sit and evaluate my performance when they don't have the self confidence to put their money on the table. Once I learn an area, I'll compete with anyone anywhere ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, period.
Two guys could be sitting on opposite sides of the same field and blowing the same exact call and using the same exact sound. It is entirely up to the coyote which they would go to and only they know why. The playing field will never be level.
Around here you have to make it good and goddamn interesting to get a coyote to respond. One can't just go out and blow a rabbit distress or howl twice and have them show. You have to howl, whimper, yip, gobble, cackle, gargle and sound like a friggin' kill-deer to get them loose and coming your way. I have to force these bastards to want to come in. They just don't come in for S&G's. I hate them, I hate them, IhatethemIhatethem,Iathe..............
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 21, 2007 07:07 PM
Leonard: "Iowa?
Wouldn't that be like having the Stanley Cup playoffs in Tahiti?"
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Very good point Leonard. It would be nice to meet a bunch of Huntmasters members at a campout, but it makes no sense to have a coyote callers campout in this desert of corn, soybeans and people. Coyote callers want to be in good coyote country, and Iowa ain't it.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted March 21, 2007 07:23 PM
[ March 26, 2007, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 21, 2007 07:26 PM
Hell LB, have it in Idaho, Scotts friend says its easy to call coyotes here............LOL... in September maybe....LOL
Have it here in the south west corner and guys can hunt 3 states for one money. If between Jan 1 and August 1 its $29.50 for non-resident and Utah and Nevada don't cost anything.
How about March, its real easy to call them in then...........LOL
BTW that hit it on the head Cal, well said sir.
sly
P.S. I smell smoke
[ March 21, 2007, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: slydog ]
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 22, 2007 07:33 AM
Sly:You and all of your yes men jumped on me over my thoughts
Yes men my ass Sly,it has nothing to do with agreeing with Scott.It has to do with disagreeing with your assesment of what the sound(estrus chirp) means to a coyote,and you trying to tell us YOU know what it means and why the coyote responds to the sound.Because YOU DON'T.And to spin it any other way is BullS***.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1618 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 22, 2007 09:36 AM
Chad, Chad, Chad,
I never told you anything, I simply said that was my thoughts and you took it from there. So save your smug remarks and defencive responces for someone else.
Shairing ones thoughts is not a crime nor does it require all this debate. Simply disagree and go on with your life.
You have no scirntific backing to your claim that My thoughts are wrong, and from what I see you refused an opertunity to try the sound when Ronnie offered it. So here again you are talking from inexpirence (With this sound) and I'm talking from my personal expieriance (With this sound). Apples and watermelons.
Grandpa always said the guilty dog barks the loudest,
He also said there are none so blind as those who will not see.
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 22, 2007 11:12 AM
Sly:Chad, Chad, Chad,
I never told you anything, I simply said that was my thoughts and you took it from there. So save your smug remarks and defencive responces for someone else.
Ok I'll bite,who were you speaking of when you say Scott's yes men then?lol
Sly:So here again you are talking from inexpirence (With this sound) and I'm talking from my personal expieriance (With this sound). Apples and watermelons
Depends on what you mean when you say experience with the sound.
If you mean that you have made this "sound" with a call and brought coyotes running for the purpose of breeding you're right you have way more experience than me.lol
But if you mean hearing "a coyote" make a sound Peep/Yip during the breeding season and really have no idea what it meant,I beg to differ.
tlbradford did a little researching from past posts and found where I made mention to "a sound" that I had heard made by coyotes over 4 years ago.Do I think I know what it means or why a coyote would react to the said sound? NO and neither do you.
If you care to take a look if you haven't already it's called:How do you Vary your howls during mating season.
What's funny is you blew through it then and didn't even give it a second thought.lol
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 22, 2007, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1618 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted March 22, 2007 01:23 PM
UTcaller:"Now the female made what at first sounded like short peeps/yips not howls. I've heard it before but only during the mating season."
There it is in black and white. He mentions nothing about what it means or claims to. Another man that sticks to his guns. I applaud that!
Yes, Chad. Uh, yes, Chad. Chad, yes. okay sure the answer is yes Chad. Yes Chad that's fine.
[ March 22, 2007, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted March 22, 2007 05:21 PM
I think the whole argument on whether or not the so-called "estrus chirp" is properly named, is going to go on for a while. You can take the sound and apply it however you want to your hunting or not at all. I sincerely hope that the first name of a sound does not bias anyone's judgment on whether it is a viable sound to use. Ronnie has been using it, and Sly has as well. They are using a specific sound and have had good results. Sly's data shows some very interesting results. Everything he has posted on this sound is an informed opinion based on the information he has collected. Anyone who has ever tried to prove a theory has started with an idea, and tested it out. Sly is in the testing period, and does not care which way the data points him.
Ronnie came up with an informed opinion when naming the sound. He heard it from a single coyote in which one was in heat. It was heard during the mating season. He recreated the sound he heard from his vantage point. We live in the good ol' USA where capatilism is alive and kicking. Lohman wanted to be the first to get a call on the market which advertises a "new" sound. This is good business strategy. It is up to us, as students of coyote behavior, to prove or disprove when this sound is used, how it is used, and how it can be applied to increase our hunting pleasure.
Like Randy said, don't be afraid to posts an idea, because you don't want it to be attacked. This is how the whole process works. The fact that people have such strong opinions one way or another must mean that there is something to this sound.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 22, 2007 05:43 PM
tlbradford:Sly is in the testing period, and does not care which way the data points him.
Are you kidding?With his VERY limited experience with the sound he has drawn alot of conclusions to what the "sound is"," it sounds like" and "means to a coyote".That doesn't sound like not caring which way the data leads to me.
tlbradford:Like Randy said, don't be afraid to posts an idea, because you don't want it to be attacked. This is how the whole process works. The fact that people have such strong opinions one way or another must mean that there is something to this sound
Or it could be that you have drawn a false conclusion and people that are experienced in coyote vocalizations and behavior call you on it and don't want people to be misled with a faulty new theory.Could go either way right?
Again like I have said from the beginning,I am not saying "a sound" doesn't exist,I'm saying basing alot of so called conclusions on the very limited experience is misleading.Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1618 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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