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Author
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Topic: The blind leading the blind
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 10, 2009 02:36 PM
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5061 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted January 10, 2009 04:37 PM
Patrick, My twin brother how are you? Ive tried to call but never catch ya. LEt this one ride. I never should of took the bait and I think we should just forget about it. Call me some time or shoot me an email scriner1@yahoo.com
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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Pilgrim on Earth
Knows what it's all about
Member # 314
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posted January 10, 2009 04:45 PM
quote:
...after you and Randy where done calling...
Tim, you truly do need hearing aids. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
Posts: 54 | From: Indiana | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2009 05:24 PM
As a audio challenged individual, myself, I have sympathy, Tim.
Good hunting. LB
PS It's cool you guys can speak in code, but it's hard to follow!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted January 10, 2009 07:27 PM
... then this one time, at band camp...
You guys make me look civil!
S Criner, Jay's is a great place. My parents live just outside of Clare and I go to Jay's whenever I visit them.
If I were a good son, I would go and visit them on the weekend you are speaking.
There are a lot of guys up that way that run coyotes with hounds...
You'll be in Amish country when you are up there so watch out for the buggies. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2009 08:03 PM
You know the dialogue has deteriorated when smithers is complaining. Even divorce court has fewer charges and counter charges.
Hey yeah! Forgot about the twins. I can't hardly tell them apart, Steve and Pilgrim, except Pilgrim is taller and maybe a little better looking?
Good hunting. LB
edit: Pilgrim, maybe Steve would hire you as his stunt double?
[ January 10, 2009, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted January 11, 2009 11:38 AM
I don’t know if this has to do with anything here. I once had an opportunity to hunt with a man who has killed more coyotes in a weekend than I kill all year long. (when I was hunting hard) I was given the opportunity to call and managed to bring a pair in, both got to ride home. At the time I was proud, I felt that I had proven that “I could do it” to this guy. In reality, all I did was make some noise and pull the trigger when the moment was right. HE did everything else including directing my attention to the coyotes, stopping the coyotes for the shot, and killing the second coyote on the run while someone else finished off the first coyote. My contribution to the over all success of the stand was minimal. A confession and apology of sorts I guess. That stand is still among my most memorable but for different reasons.
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 16, 2009 08:48 AM
Kodiak: "It just seems to me (an outsider, new guy, know nothing jackass - there I said it for you guys so you don't have too) that you have some issue with guys who makes DVD's or try to promote themselves. It's not just you really, there are many that share that sentiment on this board. Yet I have seen you and many of them post pics of your/their hunts, is this not the same thing? Is there some tiny tinge of jealousy because you know that you are a better hunter? I'm sure you are (again based on what I have seen you post, some amazing hunts by the way) but these guys have taken the corporate path and are turning their hobby into business. So maybe not jealousy but dislike of our hobby being treated like a business? Whatever it is I would like to know."
You want to know? I'll tell you how I see it. Both Leonard and Q have expressed the same feelings that I would like to expound on.
All three of us and others here carry one thing in common, we were calling and killing coyotes a long time before dvds turned so many into over night heros. The spin from the industry prostitutes is always the same, "ah they're just jealous". ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzazz! Jealous of what???? The "jealousy" comment misses the true mark by miles.
Here's the deal Kodiak since you asked. A genuine predator calling industry prostitute is someone who is very new to the game which is easily recognizeable to someone with a lot of experience based on their techniques. Since the industry prostitute doesn't have their own experiences to draw from, they sell the knowledge that was given to them freely by those with far more experience. In other words they are selling the knowledge from the leg they humped. Due to their arrogance and quest for self promotion ("look at me, look at me"), they don't even bother to acknowledge those who taught them what little they do know. It takes them a long time to finish a dvd because of all the missed shots they feel they need to edit out. Finally, while they pocket the money they make from selling someone else's hard work and knowledge, they fill the country with an army of novice callers which serves to make predator calling far less enjoyable to the person who taught them. That's it in a nutshell.
If that attitude results in a "Pampass know-it-all" title, so be it. That's my feelings just the same. Anyone that ***** someone else's hard work and knowledge for their own personal gain and noterieity without giving credit to those who taught them is a self serving puke as far as I'm concerned.
I want to seperate three guys from this categorization. First, Randy Anderson. Randy called coyotes for a long time and captured those experiences on film for the entertainment of others. Randy didn't seek notoriety, notoriety sought him. Randy is also incredibly entertaining. I hold no ill will towards Randy Anderson what-so-ever.
Second is Les Johnson. Les had lots of coyotes behind him before he took to the big screen. He's selling his own knowledge, hard work, and experience, not the knowledge and experiences of others.
Merv Griswold also had many years of calling experience before he put his experiences on film.
It's not about being on film, it's about the attitude that accompanies it.
The prostitutes are selling the knowledge and experience of someone else for their own personal financial gain and notoriety without even giving credit to those who taught them. That's what turns my stomach but there's nothing I can do about it other than to express that opinion and work harder to outwit the less experienced callers.
Call me whatever you'd like but that's how it's seen by those with experience and it has nothing to do with jealousy. I've had many opportunities to take the same commercial route but I wasn't going to do that to those who taught me. Instead, I'd rather have a handful of serious callers who wanted to improve their game take personal instruction and a handful of close personal friends who appreciated what I taught them for free. I have the self confidence in knowing that I can improve anyone's coyote calling game but I won't do it for free for someone who doesn't understand or appreciate the value.
The strategies that lead to success anymore have more to do with outwitting other callers than outwitting the coyotes. As has been stated, you can't find many coyotes anymore that haven't heard a call by the end of December.
TA,
I'm surprised at anyone who would criticize someone for projecting sounds in various directions. In poker that's called a "tell". It tells me that they don't have enough experience or don't pay enough attention to detail to have heard the difference between sound that is projected away from them as opposed to being projected towards them. Take the additional 30% of coyotes that your sound reaches and chuckle while you are skinning them. I couldn't handle the volume of holding a WT speaker but you don't have as much hearing to lose. Haha!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 16, 2009 09:14 AM
"I'm surprised at anyone who would criticize someone for projecting sounds in various directions. In poker that's called a "tell". It tells me that they don't have enough experience or don't pay enough attention to detail to have heard the difference between sound that is projected away from them as opposed to being projected towards them. Take the additional 30% of coyotes that your sound reaches and chuckle while you are skinning them. I couldn't handle the volume of holding a WT speaker but you don't have as much hearing to lose. Haha!"
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Today is my 68th birthday. I slept in for too long and my head feels like someone ran over it with a truck. At any rate, I must say that I am surprised at your above words Scott. I am sure that you know that holding a remote controlled caller above your head and swinging it around like a big flag will surely spook coyotes. I see photos in magazines that show camo clad people holding a remote control caller in their hand while actually calling. I just figure that they are either posing for a glamour shot, or maybe just stupid.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 16, 2009 09:42 AM
First, let me wish a Happy Birthday to Rich Cronk! Don't eat too much cake.
Second; Scott, congratulations on your finish in St Francis.
I already mentioned that I have a speaker fore and aft in my hunting truck and didn't explain very much about WHY, but yes, it does have to do with my feeling that the sound coming from a directional cone speaker is received by coyote ears as slightly different. This is slicing it very thin, however. A man could do a lot of coyote hunting without resorting to spinning 360º with a speaker over his head.
Having said that, I also understand the concern expressed by Rich. I think it depends on the application and whether a man could easily be busted doing something like that. It doesn't take much sound for a coyote to stand up and look in the direction of the sound. You take a chance, if he, (the coyote) is close enough to see the movement, etc. In other words, it's a little like pissing in the wind insofar as it may be a relief, but could also get your boots wet. I think you have to know when you can get away with it. It can be very counterproductive, as well.
Good hunting. LB
[ January 16, 2009, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 16, 2009 10:14 AM
My point is that it is important to project your sound 180 degrees as opposed to 90 degrees as many do. Certainly, the additional movement could be a factor if the habitat didn't allow it but I would place greater emphasis on projecting my sound 180 degrees DURING THE INITIAL CALL than worrying about the movement by doing so. If the coyote doesn't hear you, seeing you is irrelevant.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted January 16, 2009 10:16 AM
While the last thing I'd do, is back TA up, or put any weight to his "laser beam" theory... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Any one of us that's hearing impaired enough, knows that it makes a big difference if someone is facing you when they talk to you or not.
I also know "it's way louder" on the other side of the horn speaker.
Both Gerry Blair and Gerald Stewart can be seen "broadcasting" by hand, in videos. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
"Stupid is, as stupid does..."
I can see where, in big open country it would have it's advantages.
But for me, where I am (much of the time), I've found volume to be the enemy.
And instead I use my e-caller very quietly (wired 40' remote, upwind when alone, or downwind with a partner, who is further downwind), more like a decoy focusing short range attention on a continuous source of sound (rather than motion).
I'll supplement that low volume continuous calling, by "broadcasting" with a hand call, or the occasional howl.
My thinking is, a good hand call can reach out a mile in open country, and a quarter of that in the woods.
And given the slower speed a coyote in the woods is likely to approach, I figure you've got the same estimated time of arrival from the outside of your "circle of loud sounds" until they reach your "inner circle of constant sound".
That 3-5 minutes, depending on how much the terrain can gobble up sound, is when I expect I'll see the coyote coming in about the time he becomes focused on the speaker.
The "trick" I guess, is all in the timing... I blasted a coyote out of a low spot in front of me, last year, not waiting long enough.
He wasn't sure where the sound came from but he was haulin' ass across my view with his head wobblin' around trying to figure it out, and barking only made the lil' dude pick up speed!
I think volume, is overrated.
It's just my opinion, but that's what I think.
Huge thanks go out to Murray Burnham, and on to Rich Cronk, the former taught the latter a special lipsqueak, and it was passed on to me...
That's still my most productive "call".
I'd post a photo and credits, but if you've seen Cronk, once, you've seen enough.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 16, 2009 10:31 AM
Leonard and Scott both make good points that I understand perfectly. In the area I hunt most of the time, a coyote could be less than 100 yards away, so movement is a very big no-no. Even in the wide open country, a man is taking a very big chance of being busted if he waves a caller around above his head. Now if a man is going to do that, then why in hell would you spend the big bucks for a remote controlled caller? Wouldn't an old fashioned ghetto blaster serve you just as well? Hell yes it would! To each his own I guess. Peace guys, it's my birthday remember?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted January 16, 2009 02:09 PM
Rich,
I didn't say I agree with the methodology, just the idea.
As for not losing what's great about a remote... FoxPro's SnowPro instantly comes to my mind... four speakers, calling 360°, from over there.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 16, 2009 02:40 PM
Krustyklimber,
I wasn't aiming at you Krusty. You are correct about the snow crow pro though. As loud as those speakers are, even T.A. could hear em.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 16, 2009 05:19 PM
[ March 28, 2010, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5061 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 16, 2009 07:57 PM
"I think people give coyotes too much credit about all there sense's."
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ROFLMAO, now that is the voice of experience rat there. Hang on guys, I need to wipe the coffee off from my computer screen. I have been saying for at least twenty years now that if you wait long enough, the real truth will come out. It just did. The stand up comic Ron White loves to say " Ya can't fix stupid". He was right.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 17, 2009 03:34 AM
Rich; Happy B'Day & many more to come!!!!!!
Question for ya: Any idea what ever happened to your lil'buddy "Coyote Buster"?? He was a regular drama queen,.....but entertaining.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 17, 2009 06:04 AM
Kokopelli,
I actually don't even remember coyote Buster. He must not have made a real big impression on me?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 17, 2009 08:26 AM
Happy Birthday you old fart !
What are you now? About a hundred and six?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 17, 2009 08:34 AM
[ March 28, 2010, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5061 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted January 17, 2009 10:05 AM
Mr Cronk, a Happy Birthday to ya!!! Many more!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 17, 2009 10:20 AM
TA17Rem,
I have been a little too hard on you. You have the right to call any way you want to.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 17, 2009 10:31 AM
Randy Roede,
Thanks for the good wishes. I sure can use em.
Tim Behle,
I turned 68 yesterday. Hey, remember me telling you guys about that Gal who tried to burn my rental house down, and hit my Granson in the head with a hammer on her way out? His Mom is my oldest daugher, and her name is Jean. Jean went over to that Gal,s apartment last night and beat the holy crap out of her. Jean brought a hand full of the Gal,s hair over to show me. That was dumb of Jean to beat the snot out of that girl. She has a hot temper and heavy fists. Her knee did a nasty job on the gals nose too. Jean acts just like her Father sometimes. Sad, very sad.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 17, 2009 11:03 AM
Happy belated birthday, Rich. Hope there are many more to come. Sorry to hear that things got to the point where your daughter felt compelled to do that. Unfortunately, one of many lessons I have learned in the past year with my son is that the system has some serious flaws. Somehow, by the grace of God, things are better, but no thanks to the system by any means.
I've come to realize that sometimes, a good ass whoopin' will achieve the desired results better than a lawyer. You do what you need to do.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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