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Author
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Topic: Can coyotes recover from mange?
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted May 23, 2003 09:18 PM
What say you?
Yes or No?
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted May 23, 2003 09:36 PM
I think you would know more about it than I would but I would say no. Good topic though. I would bet Steve A. would know for sure. I have heard from some guys that swear up and down that they can pull through it but I have not heard of any solid evidence (as of yet) to prove it.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 23, 2003 09:43 PM
We don't have much mange out here, (I've never shot one)
but my answer is: I think it's possible, but not likely.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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howler
Knows what it's all about
Member # 197
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posted May 23, 2003 10:46 PM
I have had people tell me that they can recover but I guess i don't know one way or the other, I did see a coyote today near Temple, North Dakota that wascompletly hairless, it looked like it may have had some little tuffs at the end of his tail and at his paws looked funny, i don't know how long it would take to get into his condition but I'm real sure he wasn't that way in Feb. or March, it was pretty cold then????
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Powder River let'r Buck
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Seldom Ever
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Member # 185
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posted May 24, 2003 04:18 AM
Dogs can, but I don't know much about coyotes. I think there are about 4 different types of mange, sarcoptic being the worst and the one humans can get.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted May 24, 2003 07:43 AM
Ok, I'll go out on a limb and say yes, ![[Frown]](frown.gif) maybe 1 in 50 make it, Who knows? Not many thats for sure. Coyotes are really tuff critters as we all know. Good one Wiley LOL, ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Good Hunting.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rob
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Member # 75
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posted May 24, 2003 07:45 AM
Yes
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 24, 2003 07:58 AM
Rob, can you post something specific that details a coyotes recovery? Howler, thallium used to be used as a coyote control agent. 60% infected would die, 40% would survive but would lose their hair and nails. I'll bet Wiley would know if it is still being used in the Dakotas. I've seen only one coyote with mange in Az. Jay has run into down around Maricopa. I haven't.
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
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posted May 24, 2003 08:25 AM
Rich read it on a gray wolf status report.
3/1-3/8/2002 http://westerngraywolf.fws.gov/
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 24, 2003 10:39 AM
I have a study somewhere in one of these piles conducted on two separate pop'ns in (I believe) TX where they found that ~1% of coyotes that developed mange survived. Not good odds if you get it. Anecdotally, I shot an old bitch coyote two seasons ago during the peak in mange for this local area that was about 80% hairless. Upon closer examination, she bore nothing I would consider to be "active" infection - no open wounds, no peeling or cracking of the skin, no bleeding or obvious scratch marks, and none of that God-awful smell it causes. All exposed skin was a dark grey scar tissue like tissue, but it was all intact. She was fat and healthy, except for no hair or teeth. Bare teats showed she'd nursed pups the season prior (probably). So, I think a rare few can survive mange, but would be interested in hearing if anyone knows if the survivors will regrow hair in the affected areas.
[ May 24, 2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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Leonard
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posted May 24, 2003 11:05 AM
Based on the imediately preceeding post, I believe the examples that I have seen were survivors, until they contracted a falal case of lead poisoning. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted May 24, 2003 11:29 AM
This is Charlene, Danny's wife putting her two cents in. Can coyotes survive mange? I'd say it depends on the type, demodectic or sarcoptic. From info I have gathered about sarcoptic mange, I'd have to agree that few if any coyotes survive severe cases. This is mainly due to the animal's inability to regulate heat loss in cold months(from hair loss) and to the skin lesions that become infected during warmer months. A few states have purposely infected wolf and coyote populations with sarcoptic mange in an effort to decrease their numbers, so I would assume that they also believe that sarcoptic mange is lethal. One surprising bit of info I discovered is that gray fox rarely contract sarcoptic mange yet their counterpart, red fox, are extremely vulnerable to it. Very interesting subject Wiley
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 24, 2003 04:38 PM
Not only that, Charlene, but my guess is that it depends on the climate. BTW, welcome, we haven't met, but I've heard a lot about you.....all good, of course.
Anyway, in those real cold climates, where the animals may be using a den, and cuddling up at night, that is a good place for fleas to infect all of them. I don't think that mange (any type)is anywhere near as common in the western states, but that's just a guess?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 24, 2003 08:29 PM
I definitely go along with the inferrence that one species is more susceptible than another. I had friends once (yeah, one or two) that had a dingo. They lived along a tick infested creek and the entire time they had that critter, they never found a tick or flea on him and even the flies left him alone when all the dogs had their ears eaten raw.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted May 24, 2003 08:41 PM
Mrs. Danhehehe: "A few states have purposely infected wolf and coyote populations with sarcoptic mange in an effort to decrease their numbers,..."
Charlene, can you document this? This is the first time I have ever heard of this.
~SH~
[ May 24, 2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rob
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Member # 75
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posted May 25, 2003 03:43 AM
As early as 1909 mange was deliberately introduced into Montana when experimentally infested coyotes and wolves were released in an attempt to control free ranging canids.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
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Wiley E
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Member # 108
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posted May 25, 2003 07:44 AM
SARCOPTIC MANGE ON COYOTES IN NORTHEASTERN KANSAS
The Prairie Naturalist 34(3/4): September/December 2002
The occurance of sarcoptic mange, caused by sarcoptes scabiei, in populations of the coyote (Canis latrans) is well documented (Gier et al. 1978, Pence et al. 1983, Pence and Windberg 1994). However, only one study noted the progression of mange on individual coyotes that were radio-collared (Pence and Windberg 1994), and no studies have determined home range sizes and residency status of coyotes with and without mange.
From October 1995 to March of 1999, we captured and radio collared 19 coyotes, including six with mange, during a study of coyote ecology on the Fort Riley Military Reservation, Kansas. The recovery of carcasses after death (n = 2), recapture (n = 1), and sighting (n = 1) of four of six coyotes with mange allowed us to observe the change in progression of mange on individual coyotes at various lengths of time after their initial capture. Additionally, because coyotes were radio-tracked, we were able to determine home range sizes of coyotes with and without mange, and whether they were residents or transients.
Sarcoptic mange occurred in five of nine adult coyotes, but only one of ten yearling coyotes. Fourteen coyotes, including five with mange, were monitored long enough (greater than 6 months) to determine home range size and residency status (Kamler 1998). Of these, sarcoptic mange occurred in three of five transient coyotes, but only two of nine resident coyotes.
Individual coyotes were classified as I, II, or III based on extent and severity of mange (Pence et al. 1983). Mange in two transient coyotes advanced from Class I to Class III, and from class II to class III in 18 months and 16 months respectively. Both transient coyotes were adults. However, one was greater than 6 years old (based on cementum annuli) and the other was physically impaired by a previous injury to a hindlimb. In contrast, one resident coyote (adult female) with Class II mange was unchanged after 22 months. Another resident coyote (adult female) regressed from Class II to Class I mange in 27 months. Pence and Windberg (1994) also reported coyotes that recovered from mange.
We also radio-collared an adult male coyote without mange that bred and reared a litter with on of the adult females with mange. After this relationship of at least 11 months, the male was not infected with mange (we examined his carcass after death), which indicated that mange is not transferred necessarily between associated coyotes. The might have been the result of better health by the male coyote, or possibly his genetic resistance to mange (Pence and Windberg 1994).
Both transient coyotes with mange had home range sizes (27.8 km2, 54.9 km2) [10.7 mi.2, 21.2 mi.2] that were within the range of sizes of transient coyotes without mange (26.0 km2 to 60.4 km2, n = 3) [10 to 23.4 mi.2]. Similarly, both resident coyotes with mange had home range sizes (3.3 km2, 3.9 km2) [1.3 mi.2, 1.5 mi.2] that were within the range of sizes of other resident coyotes without mange (2.7 to 4.7 km2, n = 7) [2.7 to 1.8 mi.2].
The percentage (32%) of mange infected coyotes in our study was similar to coyote populations near the peak of a mange epizootic (Pence and Windberg 1994). Mange epizootics typically occur in coyote populations with high densities (Pence and Windberg 1994). The coyote population on Fort Riley was unexploited and the estimated density (0.8 to 0.9 coyotes/km2) [2.1 to 2.3 coyotes/mi.2] was relatively high (Kramer and Gipson 2000).
~end~
Proof that at least some coyotes can recover from mange.
Interesting that mange is not prevalent in all high coyote populations as is apparent by the observations in Az.
I always get a kick out of the statement, "the home ranges of transient coyotes".
Kinda like the home ranges of the homeless. LOL!
~SH~
[ May 25, 2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
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Rob
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Member # 75
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posted May 25, 2003 08:18 AM
Thanks Wiley
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 25, 2003 09:10 AM
quote:
Interesting that mange is not prevalent in all high coyote populations as is apparent by the observations in Az.
Interesting, yes. But I can share this much. Of the coyotes that I've seen that had mange, they all came from southern Arizona. Of course, they were called, and killed, but otherwise in good health.
Parts of southern Arizona have the highest coyote populations in the U.S.
I don't know the difference in types of mange, but the individuals I have looked at, they had a dark, glazed, hard skin around the rear end, and the tails were shriveled up sometimes in a mild corkscrew. No open festering sores, that I could see?
edit: and completely hairless in affected areas.
Can anybody hazzard a guess as to what type of mange that might have been?
Good hunting. LB
[ May 25, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Seldom Ever
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Member # 185
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posted May 25, 2003 09:27 AM
Mange is caused by a variety of mites. I'm fairly certain [but don't hold me to it and crucify me later] ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) that in order to determine the type of mange,you'd have to do a skin scraping and identify the type of mite microscopically.
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One Shot,One Kill.
Posts: 293 | From: West Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rich Higgins
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posted May 25, 2003 09:38 AM
I dug out "Parasites and Diseases of Coyotes" by H.T.Gier, S.M.Kruckenberg, and R.J.Marler. "Coyotes are afflicted with at least two kinds of mange. Demodectic mange results fron infection of hair follicles by the mange mite, Demodex canis, resulting in loss of hair, scaly skin, and perhaps secondary bacterial infection. Sarcoptic mange(itch) occurs with Sarcopies scabei canis burrowing into the epidermal layer of the skin, resulting in lymph oozing through the skin and intensive itch which causes much rubbing or biting of the infected area. Bacterial growth in the wet underfur produces a strong mousy to fetid odor; the wet, matted fur has little insulatindg value. Demodectic mange has apparently not been specifically reported for the coyote, but "hairless coyotes" have been indicated throughout coyote country(Knowles,1914; Young and Jackson,1951)without determinationas to which mange was involved. Sarcoptic mange appears to be more common, and at present (since 1972) there is a rather severe scourge of Sarcoptic mange in coyotes (and red foxes) from Minnesota to Texas. Some of the effects of this epizootic are given in Section I,A. We have found no authentic reports of psoroptic mange, chorioptic mange, nor otodectic mange in coyotes. No other mites are known to have more than incidental or accidental association with coyotes.
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Seldom Ever
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posted May 25, 2003 10:02 AM
Sounds like the ones Leonard saw had the drier demodectic variety of mange?
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One Shot,One Kill.
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Rob
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Member # 75
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posted May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
Another good one thanks Rich.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 25, 2003 08:40 PM
I picked up and examined,even took home a few, and casually prodded with my boot, around a hundred coyotes this year. Most were typical southern Arizona coyotes, a couple were exceptionally large, and several others colored and marked nicely. Four of the total had mange, one moderate infestation, the other three were what I would call severe. Almost totally hairless, except a rough around the collar, and a puff ball for a tail.....the rest of the coyote was totally covered with dark, scabby and oozy skin, nasty looking sight. We definitely have incidence of mange here, just no greater or lesser degree than I normally see in a seasons hunting.
~Az-Hunter~
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" Most coyotes come to the call; in spite of our cover scents,decoys,series and all.....not because of them"
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted May 25, 2003 09:28 PM
Hello Wiley,
This is Charlene again. I read the information on the introduction of sarcoptic mange to control wolves and coyotes from the book, "The Company of Wolves" by Peter Steinhart. It stated that from 1905 to 1916 Montana law required state veterinarians to innoculate captured wolves with mange and turn them loose. This was tried because the bounty system at the time, was not working fast enough to reduce the population..I tried to find additional info on this management program but only found repeats of this same statement. I would assume it was abandoned because shortly after 1916, the use of strychnine became popular.I will keep researching until I find some additional info. Once again, interesting topic.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
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