This is topic Arizona Coyotes......... in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on January 16, 2004, 05:23 PM:
......from what I have seen, are way down in numbers. I go out to some of my old haunts, and nada,.........no scat, no tracks, and no coyotes.
You can't call what is not there!
How about the rest of you Arizona callers?
[ January 16, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: bucksnort ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2004, 06:02 PM:
I haven't been out much, but based on what I have seen, I could agree. I have no clue why?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 16, 2004, 06:05 PM:
Same here buddy, this valley is empty. I've taken to sneaking up on rocks, just to find something to shoot at. The Jackrabbits have gone the way of the coyote. Can't even plink at them.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on January 16, 2004, 08:22 PM:
I have found it is very scattered. One area contains some, 5 miles down the road, nothing...
Most of them have concentrated in the areas with the most cattle... nothing new, but more so this year...
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 16, 2004, 09:30 PM:
LOL I don't believe a one of you guys. You'd say anything to keep folks sufficiently discouraged from hunting your Mecca!!!! LOL ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on January 17, 2004, 06:05 AM:
Coyote numbers have been on the decline for 3 years now. The bulk of the problem is caused by the drought. Coyotes need water back and away from people to raise pups in the spring. If they do not have it, they have a tough time raising their pups. The last 3 years pup populations have run at about 6% average. It should be around 60%! It doesnt take very many years of this to begin to see reduced coyote numbers in certain areas. Add to this mange, and parvo( the next biggest problem) and numbers continue to dive. Interestingly enough, I havent seen the desert coyotes affected AS BAD as the coyotes in my areas. Probably due to the reduced water there anyway. We had a little more water last spring up here than the previous 2 springs, so there are areas with coyotes and then down the road ,as Norm has seen, nothing. Water tanks in the Rim areas are pretty full right now, and if this holds, should see a good batch of pups this spring. I would be willing to bet that the litter numbers will run around 6 to 12 per litter as well. This usually happens when numbers are low. During high numbers, litters usually run a 3 to 5 average. I also feel that they will eventually adapt to raising litters in the suburbs too, if they havent already. Rich might know more about this. I dont know. I do know that the only complaint calls I am getting is from lion damage. Not a single coyote complaint all summer. Rancher called the other day and said he had lost a total of 12 calves to a lion over a several month period. He had a hound man come in and all that got done was to chase the big cat out of the area,several times. While it did stop the killing for a while, the problem eventually came back. I get called in and a client gets a nice lion, but I do not think it is the same one. Time will tell. Rancher is happy though.
I guess there is good coming from the lower coyote numbers, and that is a higher bobcat population is starting to show up. The down side for me is that I have already found where lions has killed 3 bobcats. They eat every thing except the hair and the upper and lower jaw bones. Most all the hair is licked off before eating. Anyway, enough rambling.
Steve
Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on January 17, 2004, 06:42 AM:
Loco, I am telling you true - poof, vanished. Come on down and I will take you bird watching. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Take care.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 17, 2004, 07:20 AM:
Loco,
When you get frustrated with Bruce not showing you any coyotes. Come on down here. I've shot most of the birds, but I can show you plenty of rocks to shoot at.
Tim
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on January 17, 2004, 08:15 AM:
Loco, it's the truth... there is easily 2/3's less coyotes in AZ than there was 2 years ago...
I agree with the Steve, the drought has contributed greatly. We also have groups here that feel it is acceptable to shoot coyotes all year long as they hate the coyote versus having some respect for them and giving the ability to raise their young.
Parvo has taken it's toll on many as well.
Makes for a long day when you expect to see many coyotes and see one or two in a weekend... and those are call shy!!!
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 17, 2004, 08:36 AM:
Norm,
Looks like you've been doing a good job praying for rain.
We got .46" here on Tuesday/Wednesday. I was awakened by thunder at 3:15 this morning, then again by hail a little after 5.
It's been coming down pretty good all morning. Can't see any mountains, the world looks like a big lake. If you come by tomorrow, be sure to put it in 4WD before the pavement on Davis road ends. I'm five miles from pavement, the first two ( the public road part ) is the worst. Once you get to the private maintained roads, it's no problem.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on January 17, 2004, 08:59 AM:
I didn't want any rain this week... That will put alot of ground out of reach... guess people will just have to walk a few miles in search of some coyotes to call!
Well, you needed the rain so that is a positive.
See you sometime over the next couple days...
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 17, 2004, 09:43 AM:
AZ Boyz,
LOL
I do enjoy bird watching and stone killing. Both sound like fun to me! I went calling this morning for a couple of hours and all I saw was teal sliding around in the mud, a few mallards, about 15 jillion geese, a squirrel fooling around in a tree, and a bunch of deer. Man, I love coyote hunting! LOL
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 17, 2004, 09:39 PM:
Loco, I don’t think they are pulling your chain. I spent a week in Arizona around the first of December. During that week we saw 7 coyotes, excluding road kill. Of those 7 only two were called up, and only one got a ride in the truck. One place that we hunted, we hunted last year too. Last year we noticed tracks of multiple coyotes going up and down each wash. This year we felt like we were doing pretty good to find single sets in every other wash going one way. And that was the best we found on public or federal land. The hunt did not live up to expectations by any means. On the positive side we did see a few javilena (sp?) something that I had never seen before.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 18, 2004, 06:03 AM:
In my opinion it's not just the drought in Arizona you can blame for low coyote numbers. Nowadays everybody is a predator caller, that may have something to do with it. Never in the history of predator calling have we had so many callers, they come to Arizona and Nevada from all over the country wanting a shot at a coyote. Besides that, you also have G MEN shooting them ( coyotes ) from the air, that puts a big dent in them too. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I won't live long enough to see it, but I believe coyotes may have a season someday. Don't yell at me for saying that lol, I just happen to think it's going to happen.
Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on January 18, 2004, 06:57 AM:
Danny, I am with you on the season. I am surprised we don't have one now, with a special over the counter tag at $20.00 and $50.00 for non-resident. Uhhhmmmmmm. Maybe that non-resident tag would solve our problem.
Take care.
PS: I am ducking!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 18, 2004, 07:28 AM:
[ February 20, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by DJ in AZ (Member # 276) on January 18, 2004, 08:18 AM:
Last week on saturday we (me and my son) called in nine. On sunday we managed to only to call in two. In some areas the numbers are down, in other areas the numbers are same as they have been in recent years.I think the areas with a constant water source are holding a fair amount of dogs.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2004, 10:23 AM:
I don't have a few misgivings; in fact, I have a lot of them, should coyote ststus be changed.
All I have to do is look back at what has happened to the bobcat, in the last twenty-five years. I do not want regulatory agencies to get their foot in the door.
Look a little further, look at the management of the deer herds in California. It's a total mess.
Look at nonresident applications. No longer over the counter, apply in January. I'm sure many of us like to put our name and money in the lottery, and wait, and endure the disapointment. Imagine doing that with predators. Yeah, I know it can't happen.
All I'm saying is that coyotes are doing very well (thank you) without much protection, at all. There are two reasons for registration, and licensing. Think GUNS. They want our money, and they want CONTROL. I say we need not hand them our head on a platter.
Giving game animal status to coyotes is not a good idea. Sure, the reasons it might be suggested are legit, but wait until you see the results.
I have seen the results in the case of lions, kit fox and bobcat. I don't like the "Regulators" or the Biologists deciding these things. You guys won't like the results, either. I'm betting it will not turn out the way you want.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 18, 2004, 02:36 PM:
I can see Leonard’s point. In my case I can legally take a bobcat in Idaho but I have to have a tag to transport it across state lines. I understand that that is a federal law. It basically makes it next to impossible for me to get the critter home legally. I guess if it was a priority for me to take a bobcat I would see if it were possible to get a transportation tag in advance. I don’t think that would happen because they want the bottom jaw when the tag is issued. To take a bobcat here I have to play the lotto game I have never set steel and would likely not fill any tags anyway. So I don’t bother targeting them.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 18, 2004, 02:53 PM:
Bryan, they call it a "drawing", for the bobcat tags, but everyone who puts in for them gets all that they apply for (up to the maximum, which is 6 this year).
Just FYI, in case you decide you want to try for them next year, or like me, just have a tag or three in your pocket "just in case".
- DAA
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 18, 2004, 03:08 PM:
DAA
Thanks for correcting me on that one. I haven’t ever looked into it too far. I guess I assumed that to “draw” implied there was a chance I wouldn’t get any.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on January 18, 2004, 03:10 PM:
I agree with Leonard it scares me when people start talkin about seasons and hunting regulations for coyotes.Heck the coyote always bounces back like Steve Craig said look for bigger litters.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 18, 2004, 07:02 PM:
AZ has a season.
July 1 to June 30.
Does it need to be closed for a little longer? Possibly, but that is up to debate. Personally, as one who opposes Government regulations, I'd rather limit myself on when I hunt, than have any Government entity tell me when I can or can not hunt.
If we were to cut out just one third of the season now, then coyote populations rebounded 5 years down the road, then expanded even more till they were becoming a serious heath and Safety issue. The Government wouldn't open that 4 month period. It would just use our tax dollars to pay certain people to do something that I like to do for free.
I'm not willing to give up anything. Want to negotiate? Give me back trapping on Public lands ( 70% of the State ) as a show of good faith.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 18, 2004, 07:39 PM:
Only a few years ago Colorado had a season put in place for coyotes. It only lasted a 2-3 years (I think). I suspect the state began paying out too much money on damage from coyotes (depredation). Here is another guess, I really think that coyote numbers GREW!!!!
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 18, 2004, 10:56 PM:
Psssssst....
Somebody welcome the new guy! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Welcome DJ.
Krusty 
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 19, 2004, 07:19 AM:
I would like to welcome DJ in Az. also.
This is Danny J., a member of Phoenix Varmint Callers Inc.. He and his son are the team to beat at the club hunts. DJ will be a real asset to the forum.
Welcome Danny.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on January 19, 2004, 08:07 AM:
Cdog911,
After all the good stuff that I have seen out of you, I was shocked to see the coyote season wish. But Arizona would be somewhere where there is enough suburban and urban population to get a season limiting law passed. And maybe the populations are that low that they need some protection. I'm not there so I don't know the situation. I'm fairly sure that mentioning a coyote season thats not 24/7/365 in Wyoming is a hanging offense.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 19, 2004, 10:06 AM:
Danny J welcome, Don't pay to much attention to all these guys talking there stuff, they just talking to be talking lol. To be honest, Bruce and I just know how to stir to old pot and kinda make things happen. J/K, we do that alot too. Again, welcome and I know you'll have fun if your like the rest of those crazy Arizona guys, Good Hunting
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2004, 11:00 AM:
Thanks, Krusty.
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, DJ. Glad to have you on board.
I wrote a welcome, but it's a long story. Sufice to say, I'm using a different computer.
In the case of lions in California, we were subjected to the big lie. Bunny huggers whined about all the death and carnage. Sport hunters killed about 75 lions, the last year it was legal.
The latest figures I have heard, the State of California paid out money to professional hunters on depredation permits, resulting in 200+ dead lions.
Bunny huggers are okay with that, because it was necessary, and it removed the element of sport hunting. They don't want us to enjoy the blood sport, but it's fine, if somebody does a necessary job.
Who's being taken for a ride, here?
Bobcat tags. Used to be able to get them out of the same can that held the license and deer tags. Then later, I had to drive to drive to Long Beach or apply by mail. Now, you had better plan ahead, because you will be waiting on the bureaucracy taking their sweet time in returning those tags. And, you only get five. Or if you like; take the test and apply for a trapping permit costing one hundred dollars.
No, I'm against it.
I'm sure some of you have heard how we wound up with total protection for kit fox? There was some buzz or concern about numbers being down, and in an effort to disprove it, a couple of predator hunters took a couple Fish and Game people out on a hunt. I heard that they showed them over 50 kit fox, and killed a number of them. The result was that they feared extinction because they were so susceptible to calling. That's what I call backfiring; the law of unintended consequences.
Can't happen with coyotes? Don't bet on it.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 216) on January 19, 2004, 11:10 AM:
I havent noticed a difference in the population I have killed fewer than last year at this time but I havent been out nearly as much. Do any of you AZ guys know the results of the 3 club hunt that took place saturday.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 19, 2004, 11:48 AM:
Hawkeye, Tyler and I were surprised at the number of vehicles at the check in. More than fifty. Only thirty nine animals total were turned in. PVCI turned in one bobcat, four fox, and fifteen coyotes, or about one half of the total. Mesa turned in one bobcat two fox and seven coyotes. Tucson did a little less. Points went 225 to Phoenix. 125 to Mesa and 90 to Tucson.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 19, 2004, 07:15 PM:
Regarding the coyote population densities, Steve Craig has the handle on it. Drought is the primary culprit. Coyotes have moved to developed areas and agricultural areas, where the water is. Water means cover , rodents, birds all of which attracts coyotes. Coyotes are becoming more urbanized, or at least suburbanized. They make their nocturnal rounds hitting pet food left out and sometimes the pets. Jim Wegge was the Az G&F enforcement officer for unit 20B until his retirement last year. He told me that two years ago he found six active dens in a one mile stretch along a dirt bank canal that runs along the north side of Peoria and Sun City. I asked him how the coyotes sort out the territory issues when they are concentrated like that. He answered that he believes that during times of climatic stress the coyotes become more tolerant of the presence of others. Coyotes are still living year round on the golf courses and denning in the cement culverts that drain the courses. They are denning in the washes that bisect residential developements. I see more in the city limits than I do out in the desert.
So many callers are competing for the ones in legal shooting areas that we're stumbling over and into each other.
An interesting counterpoint, Leroy Jarulawisc spent nine days around Safford hunting javelina. He said javelina numbers were way down from previous years, Az F&G told him parvo was working them over. He says he did see tons of coyotes though. May have to go see.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 19, 2004, 07:29 PM:
Rich,
Been there, killed them.
There are no coyotes left in the Safford area.
Tim
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