This is topic King of the coyote in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 01, 2004, 08:27 PM:
I thought ya'll would enjoy this article,( King of the Coyote )especially Rich. It makes me wonder about these scientist and researchers. In the article they seem to thick this is a rare and isolated occurance. I have hunted and killed coyotes in East Texas for almost thirty years(I live just 100 miles East of Dallas). Our coyotes here have always outweighed the coyotes in West Texas by a considerable margin. They are, and have always been just as described in this article, or at least as long as I've hunted them. I kill coyotes here that rutinely weigh in the mid forties. I have also killed Quite a few that I would say weighed over 50. My new video comes out in a few day's and if ya'll see it you will see a few of these coyotes. One of the coyotes on the video is well over 50.
Here is a picture of one from the video that weighed 46#'s.
This picture is at the moment the 60 grn V-Max hits him. I shot him a little far back but it did him in quick.
Let me know your opinions
Byron ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ July 01, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2004, 10:33 PM:
I don't really have an opinion, Byron. It's just hard for me to relate to a 46 pound coyote. Mainly because I know I've never seen one. I mean, while hunting, of course. I'm not doubting that people shoot, and weigh coyotes that go 46 pounds, but it doesn't happen around here.
You know, I heard that they really can't tell the difference between a Grizzly Bear and a Brown Bear. It's just a matter of size, and how close the bear is to the coast. So, you have interior grizzlies that weigh 800 pounds, and coastal brown bears that might go 1500. Who knows why?
Anyway, western coyotes don't generally attain that size, but then again, Texas is part of the west, huh? Still, the one's I killed in (west) Texas weren't quite that big.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 02, 2004, 04:42 AM:
That's a good comparison Leonard. we must have "Kodiak Coyotes" here in East Texas. I hunt quite a bit out in West Texas, in fact about 50% of my time during the cooler months is spent in West Texas. I can certainly tell the difference in the coyotes once I get past the Dallas Ft.Worth area. One theory that I've heard about our East Texas coyotes is they are a hybrid of the Red Wolf. I have also heard of people saying they have seen dogs with coyotes. I find this hard to believe. Not impossible, but hard to believe. I have been in the woods most of my life and certainly more than any one else I know of around here. My line of work has had me outside everyday it wasn't raining for as long as I could work. I would have certainly seen a dog and coyote running together at least once if it happens at all. I haven't. These coyotes seem to be more aggresive as well. I see and hear of more livestock damage here, and have witnesed them running deer lots of times. A good friend of mine shot one of a pair that had almost finished killing a full grown doe deer. It could be that their size allows them to be more aggresive. Or their aggresiveness has lead them to evolve into a larger breed. Who know's.
Byron
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 02, 2004, 08:10 AM:
"The Texas King Coyote was captured recently and placed on public display. Strong men faint dead away at the sight of the fearsome beast."
[ July 02, 2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 02, 2004, 11:15 AM:
Byron,
Obviously, your scales are not calibrated correctly, and you have not been seeing and shooting them for years. The atricle clearly states they are new to the area. When has an expert been wrong, they don't get all that edamucation, just to make incorrect statements and findings. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
LOL
How many times do you here that a particular animal was seen in an area, and the state 'experts" say no way possible could that animal be there, then miraculously one is hit by a care, or shot by a hunter. More times than not, their story then leans toward a "pet" that must have gotten away, etc.
We have had many sightings of cougars here in NH, but the state denies it to the last.
Seems as though hunters are always years ahead in really being able to trace or identify some oddity, new species,variant or rehabitation by one thought to no longer be inhabiting the area.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 02, 2004, 11:18 AM:
Actually Texas is such a big state that it is home to at least four sub-species of coyote. The smallest of the nineteen sub-species is canis latrans microdon and is located in south Texas and Mexico. canis latrans mearnsi is found from California to west Texas. canis latrans texensis is found in much of the state. The big boys are probably canis latrans frustror. Around the turn of the century a biologist named Bailey classified this coyote as a species of wolf different from canis rufus, your red wolf. No wonder there is so much confusion about the taxonomy of the coyote species. The taxonomists are even confused. It's known that coyotes and red wolves cross-bred fairly often as the wolf became more rare. It apparently happened frequently in Arkansas in those melting pot areas around the Tyson operations before state and federal laws made them clean their practices up.
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on July 02, 2004, 07:20 PM:
I am not up to speed on all the submutts in Texaslandia, but the ones out here known as canis latrans stupidicous have reached upwards to the 40-41 pound mark but that is extrememly rare. I'd say typical for AZ is 25-28 pounds for full grown, healthy dog.
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 02, 2004, 08:52 PM:
quote:
It's known that coyotes and red wolves crossbred fairly often as the wolf became more rare. It apparently happened frequently in Arkansas
Cross breading in Arkansas eh? Ya don't say. LOL Must be something in the water down that way. Sounds like a great place to hunt. With all the inbreeding and crossbreeding going on down there it should be pretty easy calling. Just plug in the retarded coywolf in heat tape and have at them.
BTW are the taxonomists from Arkansas too?
Good hunting.
Q,
[ July 02, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Q-Wagoner ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 02, 2004, 10:42 PM:
I had a fella from Ontario Canada come out to hunt with me six or eight years ago. During our correspondence he casually mentioned he used a .270 and not a 22 centerfire, because the coyotes in his area were in the 50 pound class. I of course, pointed out that he was as full of shit as a christmas goose, and would make a better fisherman than a hunter:)
When he arrived he had a gorgeous hide he had home tanned that I swear, looked like a wolf! Thick, luxurious fur, and nearly twice as long as any coyote hide I had around the place. He said this particular coyote weighed 47 pounds.
In Arizona, or any other western state Ive hunted, a 40 pounder is good for braggin rights, but this 47 pound coyote is the absolute biggest Ive handled personally, and had the weight confirmed. Ive taken swags at ones we've killed that you would swear tip over 40, but scales don't exaggerate, 38 is the largest specimen Ive personally seen here in the southwest.
Ive seen coyotes from Arizona to Florida, and they all pretty much look the same as whats running around here. Ive not hunted or seen any coyotes from the northeast or Canada, other than the one my partner brought from Ontario....which indeed weighed nearly 50 pounds.
Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on July 03, 2004, 06:21 AM:
Most here in Minnesota will go just over 30 lbs. My largest until this winter was at 44 pounds shot in SW Minnesota. This winter I was lucky enough to kill a 52 pound beast that was smokey grey in color. I had a shoulder mount done on him. He's a great speciman.
I'm not too up on how to post pics but if anyone would like to post it here, I can email it to them.
Randy
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 03, 2004, 07:10 AM:
Randy, send it over to me I'll be happy to post it for you.
Q, lol, through the 50s and 60s Tyson's chicken operations raised millions of chickens and dumped their dead and slaughter refuse in the hollows(pre govt regulation) which over the years attracted large aggregations of coyotes, feral dogs and red wolves. Since normal social structures broke down , cross-breeding occurred. This then attracted research biologists and a number of studies were conducted, most notably Gipson and Quinn who extensively documented the hybridization of red wolves and coyotes.
Q, this information is not actually concealed in books, it is available to anyone willing to crack a cover.lol
I have, still on stretchers, the last coyote I shot in Az. before moving to Mo. and the first coyote I shot in Mo. Size and coloration are identical. They look like they are from the same litter. I have video of a coyote I took in south central Az. A large grey male. I didn't weigh him but he is strung from a palo verde next to a normal red yellow grey coyote and it is easily twice the normal coyotes size. We occasionally see the larger grey coyotes in Az.
DOD's NH coyotes are an entirely different animal. I'm really excited about filming a hunt with him in Dec. Now I need to find someone in Maine who will tape a hunt with me. Those two states comprise a "pocket" that contains a distinctly different animal from the other New England coyotes.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2004, 10:42 AM:
I've handled a lot of coyotes in various parts of the west. It's interesting that the largest and heaviest coyote I ever seen, while I didn't kill it, I dragged it back to the truck, and knew then, that it was heavy. It weighed 38 and change. In 36 years, I have never taken a bigger one, me or a partner. Interesting, Rich speaks of pockets. That particular hunt, we ran into a "pocket" of large animals, killed seven coyotes, the smallest weighed 31 pounds, and that's not a small animal, in my view.
Thinking about what Vic had to say on that Canadian coyote. I was in the fur shed of a buyer once, and he had them all sorted, and bundled, size and color. I had asked why I wasn't getting top money, and he proceeded to show me why. Some of those hides looked like they had been peeled from wolves rather than the coyotes I was so proud of.
Shut me up, he was fair. All well and good, but to this day, I have yet to see those routine 40/50 pounders that grow other places. Surprisingly, I don't have a coyote in my trophy room, but I'd find room, if I ever managed to get one of those mythical monsters!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 03, 2004, 12:36 PM:
Interesting, a lot of you folks sound like the state pros and biologists, nope can't be that because......., nope, they don't get that big........
Shouldn't use that caliber, too damn small, or too damn big. Lots of animals were taken with nothing more than a sharp stick or a stick with a piece of sharp stone on the end, or a sharp stick propelled by another stick with a taught string (many animals still are in fact), this all did happen however before they knew the right caliber to use and that what they were using wouldn't work (cavemen were pretty stuburn must be).
Whitetailed Deer in most parts don't get all that big, BUT, there are places where they get to over 300 lbs. Just because I haven't hunted them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Too bad so many are so closed minded.
DOD
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 03, 2004, 01:01 PM:
Whoa David, you've misenterpreted our posts. No one has doubted the stated weights of your or Byron's coyotes. We have stated the weights of the western coyotes with which we have experience and they do not approach the the huge awe-inspiring coyotes from the east. Some of us are prone to tweak each other with a little humor now and again, but it is mostly done in fun. Relax, you're among friends.
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 03, 2004, 01:36 PM:
I know good and well that some coyotes have been recorded with Wolf DNA in them and I know that many in the north east grow to be exceptionally large specimens. Vic if you ever see Tom Teskey have him show you the coyote that I sent him. He said that it dwarfed anything that he has ever seen. Gary S. formerly of NY trapped a coyote that went 7foot 6inches skinned from nose to tale. I have a picture of him holding up the hide. He is also the one that owned the dog “Sam” that was humping the dead coyote that you post every once in a while. I think that while living in NY he checked in more coyotes than anyone in the state most seasons. From what I understand, northern NY has the highest population of coyotes than anywhere else in the state. G.S. operated out of the Finger Lakes region if I remember right so that should tell you something about his ability. He would be a good guy to get a hold of for your eastern version. If not he would at least be able to tell you about the who’s who in NY and other parts of the east.
You also need to contact Bob Noonan of Caanan Maine. He has been in the game of trapping and calling a long long time and would know anyone who is anybody in the world of calling up in that country. He is a field editor for the Trapper & Predator Caller Magazine. Chances are if he hasn’t heard of them then they aren’t worth hearing about so he would be a good guy to talk to.
Guys like Gary and Bob will help you sort out the PC professionals from the real deal.
Relax DOD you are among friends here. We rib each other all the time.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2004, 01:55 PM:
Yeah, you're taking us wrong, DOD. No question about it. Besides, I don't allow disrespect and they all know that, but we do manage to roast somebody, from time to time; all in good fun. But, that's not the case here, we believe you.
I'm just amazed at the size that coyotes can attain, in other parts of the country. Most of the gentlemen contributing within this thread have probably killed thousands of coyotes, so it is understandable when they are telling us that they haven't had any personal experience with some of those whoppers. It only adds to the remarkable accounts and evidence.
Keep reading, you'll get it. These are some of the most experienced predator hunters in the entire country, certainly not a bunch of snobs, or self appointed "experts".
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 03, 2004, 02:13 PM:
Must be I misinterpreted the post. I can take ribbing along with the next guy, but it seemed (incorrectly I guess) that people were of the mindset that unless they had seen it themselves it doesn't exist, be it a large coyote or a toothed chicken.
Q-Wagoner
Who is the person GS that you refer to? Where in the Finger Lakes area was he from. I am originally from there also. I plan on doing some coyote hunting there this fall and help out some old friends (farmers) with their problem.
The coyotes up here have been tested by the University of New Hampshire and definately have wolf DNA. There are the smaller variety as well. There is a person who post on another board that lives in Massachusetts that I believe has distinctive areas where he finds one variety or the other. The photos are very dramatic in showing the difference.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 03, 2004, 02:14 PM:
As to the success of poking living things with sharp sticks; Im reminded of the statistic regarding archery elk success in Arizona. Something on the order one bull recovered for every 14 or 15 reportedly arrowed?, and thats suspect, how many hunters are to ashamed to answer the survey honestly and claim none?
Ive never disclaimed the fact some coyotes, in some places, don't hit the magical 50 pounds....Ive just never seen one:) The one from Canada is the absolute largest specimen Ive seen that was verified on scales, then was able to admire with my own eyes. No coyote in Arizona or any other western state that Ive examined, equals that big northern one I have. The length of fur, thickness of fur, and length/size is way out of porportion to our western coyotes.
Ive yet to see a big coyote on the 'net displayed hanging from a scale, so I can see the purported weight, rather than just hear a story of what a guy "figgered" it weighed:)
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 03, 2004, 02:46 PM:
DOD
http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/gary.htm
Dennis
Btw: Around here we pick up an ocassional large one, but I've never weighed one. LOL
[ July 03, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 03, 2004, 03:09 PM:
Az-Hunter. I have several we weighed on video and I can get the pics from the video later. I posted a picture of one we shot back in the winter that weighed 50#'s. In the picture he is hanging on the scales. I believe I posted it here, you can do search. They are not certified scales but I'm sure they are pretty close. Rich will have a copy of my new video as soon as they come out ina few days. On the video there is some footage of one of the biggest coyotes I've ever killed. I didn't weigh this particular coyote because I didn't have scales back then, but I estimate his weight to be well over 50#'s, and I've weighed a lot of coyotes in the last year. I will say this again and you can take it for what its worth. I kill coyotes in East Texas that will rutinely weigh in the mid 40's and on occasion weigh as much as 50#'s or more weighed not guessed at.
Here is a post mortum picture of the previous coyote hanging on scales that read 46#'s.
As far as the bow hunting goes. I'm a bowhunter and love the sport. I can proudly say I have killed lots of coyotes, bobcats, deer, and couple elk and have only lost one animal. Most of them went no further than they would have if shot with a rifle.There are slob hunters in every segment of hunting, but most of the bow hunters I know are very dedicated to the sport and are very diciplined. I wonder how many gut shot elk get away during rifle season .
Good Hunting
Byron
Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on July 03, 2004, 03:38 PM:
Rich,
Those pics are on their way.
Thanks
Randy
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 03, 2004, 06:13 PM:
Greenside,
That is extremely strange. He was born and raised in Upstate New York and I was also. The company he works for now, Wildlife Technologies is about 8 miles away from my current home in New Hampshire. Very weird.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 03, 2004, 06:15 PM:
Randt's pics
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 03, 2004, 06:20 PM:
His name is Gary Strader DOD. Greensides link should get you all knowed up about the guy. Never met or talked to him personally but I know he was a student of O’Gorman so he probably has his $hit together. Have you ever heard of Craig O’Gorman?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 04:56 AM:
Q-Wagoner
No I have never heard of him. Gary is a shade older than I am. The Finger Lakes area of New York is a large area. I used to trap a lot as a youngster and I don't remember ever seeing a quantity of pelts at a fur buyers location like any of those shown. Looks like I have some more reading to do.
DOD
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 04, 2004, 10:50 AM:
Here we are back to wolf DNA.... man, we must be gutshot and spinning in circles!?!
My DOG has many of the same chain sequences as a wolf... hell, being a mammal I even have some of the same genes as a wolf... I was born live, and reared on milk....
Doesn't mean I am a wolf, or that I have been inbred with one. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
(yeah, I know, each of you probably just made up yer own "inbred Krusty joke"... it's cool)
I am also not part whale, not part frog, and not part bird... but I bet I have some matching gene sequences with some of these other animals too.
Until the canine genome is mapped out on a level near or higher than the human genome has, we will never know what genes the coyote carries that give it "wolf-like" qualities, and even then we may never know how long the coyote has had them in it's genome.
Did it get it from it's wolf daddy, or it's coyote ancestor from 1000 generations back, and it had layed dorment only to come out as a genetic "mutation", or be confused as hybridization.
It's like music... there are only so many notes, and only so many that "work together", so all songs have some matching chains of notes (scales).
With DNA there are ONLY FOUR NOTES and a "song" could be thousands of notes long (or longer)... you are going to have a lot more "songs that sound similar" than if you had some 60 aubible musical notes and hundreds more outside the range of our hearing.
So far, to me, there is no definitive proof that eastern coyotes have any more wolf in them then western ones do, my dog does, or I do.
Krusty 
P.S. Byron, your link does not take me to any article...
[ July 04, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 04, 2004, 11:09 AM:
Krusty I had no idea that your ancestors came from Arkansas. With a family tree that looks like a telephone pole I can now see why you are such a Bush bashing liberal. Oh well ignorance is not a crime so you are free to go.
Here is a link you can check out on the subject if you would like.
http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/necoyote.htm
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 04, 2004, 12:19 PM:
Interesting reading Q, Thanks. I wonder what it would cost to ship a 50# dead coyote via UPS. If anybody wants one, just pay the shipping and you can be the first on your block to have one.
I'm sure they will ship it. I once sent some fresh elk droppings from Colorado to a buddy. He couldn't/wouldn't take off work to go, so we over nighted him a package to his work to rub it in. Boy did he like that .
Byron
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 04, 2004, 12:50 PM:
Calm down Byron me lad:) None of us has denied their existence, as I mentioned, Ive seen one too...well three pounds short, but close enough to realize, that they indeed are out there.
I just had to be a little suspect of your statement concerning the number, of the rare 50 pounders in your area...you ARE from Texas.....and you initals are BS. Just some good natured ribbin' my friend:)
On a serious note, odd isn't it, how these "pockets" as Leonard has aptly named them, are located? I can shoot an average 25 pound coyote in my back yard, shoot the same one in New Mexico and west Texas. Kill a 50 pounder east of Dallas, then shoot an average 25 pounder in Minnesota. Head further north into Canada, and shoot a 50 plus pound coyote, then head south to Florida and shoot another itty bitty one there.....wierd? Thank gawd im a hunter and not a biologist or it would trouble me to no end attempting to figure it out? Im here, and not there, so my little ole 25 pound coyotes keep me fairly amused and sometimes, confused.
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 12:51 PM:
Here is another link to other study done. Somewhere I have an original of a study done by UNH which proved the DNA from the wolf (for most of us anyways)
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_profiles/profile_eastern_coyote.htm
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2004, 12:58 PM:
I recall reading that the house fly's DNA is over 90% the same as human?
I sort of agree with Krusty to the extent that wolf and coyote crosses could have occured (X) thousand years ago, if someone can breathlessly, (and accurately) point to the discovery of "wolf DNA" in eastern coyotes. I wonder if anyone bothered to test western coyotes and computed the amount of "wolf DNA" that they found. In other words, "wolf DNA" could be a meaningless buzz word.
If the coyote and wolf have had occasional cross breedings throughout their historical contact, it doesn't give much basis for some of the theories. Without question, the two species are closely related, thereby begging the question: "does the eastern wolf genome contain some coyote DNA?"
Good hunting. LB
[ July 04, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 04, 2004, 01:10 PM:
Q,
I am gonna assume that was humor, or an attempt at it. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I hope you got a laugh from it.
Actually my ancestors (on my mother's side) were smart enough to get out of Nebraska...
I guess now I am a little bit less ingorant... I learned that sometime between 90 years ago and 300,000 years ago wolves and coyotes, and/or red wolves... (a Canadian kind not the Tex-Mex kind, which may actually already be an older hybrid of it's own) ...well these wolves might have interbred with coyotes, some guys think, or believe, or something...
But like someone else said, these are the same guys who say we don't have this or that critter in this or that place... til someone drives up with a dead one in the back of the truck, or runs it down with a car.
And MOST of all I have to consider the source, just because it's posted somewhere on the internet, dang, I bet it's all true!!!
*The first paper Einstien submitted on his time space theory was totally wrong... how do we know these guys are right?
And at least the guys Mr. Higgins lists have Dr. in front of their names. neener neener neener
Krusty
P.S. On my father's side, I am a first generation American... and (ESPECIALLY TODAY) I am very thankful that I am able to be an ignorant Bush bashing liberal. And that it doens't end up with my grama being tortured by the KGB, an Israeli helicopter didn't sweep in and kill my family and destroy our home, or I ended up rotting in a Cuban prison.
If the worst thing that happens by being a liberal, is pissing off few guys, who probably didn't like me anyways... oh freakin well!!! LMAO
P.P.S. Notice Leonard can only "sorta agree" with me? LOL
[ July 04, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2004, 01:14 PM:
Put another way, for clarity:
I've caught a number of one pound bass and the occasional four pounder. I've never (personally) seen a twenty pounder, but I have to accept the fact that they exist.....mostly in California, by the way.
Yes, coyotes do grow bigger some places, I think we all AGREE on that issue; even if you/me/we need to reread some comments. It's just hard to visualize, having seen so many, that my personal frame of reference is purely regional. I have the same trouble visualizing a Billion Dollars.
Good hunting. LB
edit: Krusty's a LIBERAL? That explains a lot.
[ July 04, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 01:23 PM:
I could be mistaken, but I believe DNA has been used to determine ancestory lines in people and determine which "Tribe" they originated from many years ago. I am sure that many links in the DNA chain are the same for almost if not all mammals, it is however the few that are different, and their characteristics that are meaningful.
Krusty; Phd only means "Piled Higher and Deeper", there are plenty of Phd's out there who don't know squat, and plenty of plain ole folks that can put many Phds' to shame. A piece of paper hanging on the wall is no more than a picture.
Leonard,
Yes Krusty is a LIBERAL with a GUN........My god
Also, a Billion Dollars isn't so hard to visualize. Look at John Kerry, you get that characteristic "shit eaten grin" and start lieing depending on who you talking to.
[ July 04, 2004, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 04, 2004, 01:27 PM:
No offense was taken AZ-Hunter, and none was ment. I have delt with scepticism from others though to the point, If I can't back it up I just keep my mouth shut. I have heard my share of wild tales and I'm somewhat a sceptic myself . I'm not suggesting you don't believe me, but if anybody does I'd be willing to send them a package.
I'm not one to get to wound up over things, but I don't care for someone disputeting what my own eyes have seen. Kinda like calling me a liar . Again I don't think anybody here even suggested that I'm full of BS or a liar, but others could read this thread and make that assumsion. I like to think I can take a ribbing as much as the next guy, and quite frankly I've enjoyed the responses in this thread. Like I said "if I can't back it up, I would have keep my mouth shut".
As far as pockets of large coyotes go. We have a pretty large pocket of these coyotes. From my personal experiences, it reaches from Dallas to at least the Lousiana line (200 miles),and from Arkansas to at least past Lufkin (250 miles or so) I would assume it goes further East and North but this is where my experience's has been. On another note about these coyotes is that these coyotes color is darker, like the one that Randy posted. In fact we accually see a black coyote from time to time. I have seen several at taxidermy shops, and seen a few live ones. I accually have some footage of one I shot on my next video. I don't believe these are crossed with dogs, as they resemble a coyote in every respect except for color. I have seen footage of wolf packs where they have different color wolves in the same pack. I wonder if this is because of more wolf like traits in our coyotes.
As far as DNA research goes I'm certainly not up on it. I've heard though that you can find wolf DNA in lap dogs. And didn't Nicole Simpson killer have the same DNA as OJ?
Krusty, You being a liberal explains a lot. You liberals never listen to reason
Byron
[ July 04, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 01:35 PM:
Byron,
I have heard of a Black one up here too ( have to do DNA testing to see if they are related ). It seems as though the Black color variant is quite rare. The Black one here is/was wanted by the state for evaluation.
I have also seen Red ones that appear strange in color. Blondes also, but they seem to be more common.
It's interesting how some colors variants are more common than others.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 04, 2004, 01:53 PM:
Q,
Gee thanks for "outing me" on the board... I feel like a PETA member or something. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
LOL
DOD,
Did ya happen to catch the PBS series were they showed how they traced man's origins, and path out of Africa, through tribal DNA markers?
I did, a couple times now.
The guy (a Phd.) said they could not have done it until the human genome had been mapped out, that it was the "drivers guide" and the DNA was the map.. they just didn't know how to drive the car before.
*By the way the Dr. line was a joke at Q, we got this "thing"... (I take it as "Campfire Talk"... I'd pass the bottle his way after he made a joke at me, and make a joke back at him, reminding the drooling fool not to backwash in the bottle... we'd all laugh).
And actually us liberals are the ones who most need guns... to protect ourselves from already armed republicans.
HEY!!! I don't know who signed me up with the liberal party... I coulda swore I was an American... one Nation, under God, INDIVISABLE... and all.
The Constitution allows us certain rights... CLEARLY owning a firearm is covered under these rights.
I support that.
Life. Liberty. And the pursuit of Happiness... I guess wanting that for everyone on Earth make me a bad guy. Hehehe
By the way everyone... Byron has a NEW VIDEO coming out soon!
Krusty
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 04, 2004, 04:03 PM:
Quote from Krusty.
"Life. Liberty. And the pursuit of Happiness... I guess wanting that for everyone on Earth make me a bad guy. Hehehe"
No that doesn't make you a bad guy, BUT WANTING ME TO GIVE WHAT I'VE WORKED MY ARSE OF FOR TO SOME A-HOLE THAT AIN'T GOT OFF HIS COUCH EXCEPT TO GO THE THE MAIL BOX, FOR HIS LIFE LIBERY AND PURSUIT OF HAPINESS DOES .
I have enjoyed this thread, but I'm about finished with it. I love politics and like to debate it but not here.
Good Hunting
Byron
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 04, 2004, 04:21 PM:
Biologists have long used dentition and cranial measurements to identify and distinguish between coyote sub-species, wolves and domestic dogs. They are able to identify canid hybrids with the same process.
Then in 67 or 69 Drs. Lawrence and Bossert (and I quote)
"applied the numerical technique of linear discriminate function analysis to canis taxonomy and developed "target" discriminate function coefficients for domestic dogs, wolves, and coyotes." So there. I hope that satisfactorily explains and settles that for once and for all. LOL
The New Hampshire and Maine coyotes were recognized as being distinctly different from other coyote subspecies. At least six biologists devoted long periods of their lives to the exclusive study of the animal. Drs. Silver and Silver in fact at first thought that they were wolf-dog hybrids and bred and raised over fifty assorted canines between coyotes imported from Wyomong and Wisconsin and various domestic dogs They later used the results of their studies combined with discriminant function analysis to determine that the New Hampshire and Maine coyotes were indeed wolf-coyote hybrids. Later DNA analysis confirmed their results. These coyotes are are presently confined to the Maine-New Hampshire pocket. Pennsylvania and New York have their own "Kodiaks" as Byron tagged his. Dr. Henry Hilton wrote,
"specimens from Pennsylvania and New York were more extremely varied suggesting that in certain areas where access to a variety of Canis stock exists, or where introductions may occur, coyote populations consist of a "mixed bag" of phenotypes."
I have hunts booked , so far, with nine different hunters this fall and winter in eight different eastern states. I hope to get some good video of that "mixed bag".
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 04, 2004, 04:32 PM:
See any difference?
[ July 04, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
Posted by crapshoot (Member # 225) on July 04, 2004, 05:50 PM:
Who is that masked man with the cute little puppy? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2004, 05:57 PM:
There's that "Weekend at Bernie's" picture, again. With his dog, Spot.
quote:
Then in 67 or 69 Drs. Lawrence and Bossert (and I quote)
"applied the numerical technique of linear discriminate function analysis to canis taxonomy and developed "target" discriminate function coefficients for domestic dogs, wolves, and coyotes." So there. I hope that satisfactorily explains and settles that for once and for all. LOL
Not for me, it doesn't?
edit: That's our own Jay Nistetter, the one with the furr on his face.
[ July 04, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 04, 2004, 06:49 PM:
Rich,
You haven't told me how to do that yet. LOL
Post the other one I sent you, looking straight on at him. I think you can really see a definite difference if the facial characteristics in that on.
[ July 04, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posted by crapshoot (Member # 225) on July 04, 2004, 07:14 PM:
I know who Jay is.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 04, 2004, 07:33 PM:
Leonard
quote:
"does the eastern wolf genome contain some coyote DNA?"
I'm starting to think there might be some truth to that one.
Dennis
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 04, 2004, 07:58 PM:
Posted by crapshoot (Member # 225) on July 04, 2004, 09:41 PM:
Man! IS that a pumkin head or what. They dont grow em like that here in southern Nevada.
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 05, 2004, 07:32 AM:
That pack is about 12 inches wide. Both ears have old battle wounds, which are clarly visible, The left ear has a tear in it, about an inch long, the right actaully had a chunk missing. Both were old wounds and had healed over long ago.
DOD
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 05, 2004, 08:10 AM:
Three more biguns.
This on weighed 45#'s. Tanner and I killed this coyote within 1/4 mile of our home.
Two more East Texas coyotes. 42#'s and 50#'s.
.
Vic, I don't need to calm down, my coyotes can whoop your coyotes any day . just kidding around .
Good Hunting
Byron
Posted by adkguide (Member # 143) on July 05, 2004, 09:31 AM:
Q,
Got a good buddy of mine who is one of the best k9 trappers here in upstate NY. I think his biggest coyote from this past season weighs in at 58 lbs. Biggest ever was around 65, if i recollect right. He knows GS, even got a couple coyote dogs from him. Said the same thing as you, that guy piled up the most k9's season after season. Our adult NY yippers average about 40, I'd figure.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 10:18 AM:
Byron,
Just to clarify my position... and you need not reply.
I do not believe anyone in this world deserves a free handout, and I for sure don't think anyone should take anything away from you to do so (anymore than the taxes we all pay, which are too high due to the way the money is squandered).
But I do believe we should help out those who are working to better themselves, ie. school grants, subsidized health and child care for the working poor, social security for those who worked their whole lives and paid into it.
When and where did you come up with the idea I think otherwise.
I did say "the pursuit of happiness", and to me, that means a person has to get off their ass and go and PURSUE it (not have it handed to them).
I do beleive that if you have paid into a "safety net system" like unemployment insurance, state health care plans, or social security... you should be eligible to get these benefits when they are needed... to me it's no different then collecting from your auto insurance if your truck was in a wreck, or getting your own money out of a 401K retirement plan.
It's a service I have already been paying this country for, out of every paycheck I have ever received.
Even so called liberals pay taxes, some of us actually work hard to scrape out a living, don't break any laws, and are actually good Americans.
I highly resent any implication that I am not a good person, because of a "liberal" label you guys put on me.
Personally I think the "multi party" system is doing this country WAY more harm then good... with party infighting mucking up much of the political proccess in this country... repubs vote "no" on an idea, good idea or bad, because a demo thought it up and is presenting to the forum.
How does that help any of us?
All we do is miss out on good things because of a "civil war" going on between the elected govt officials... and that same "civil war" threatens our little peace here (that friends should be polarized over such nonesense)... that's the true "trickle down" we see, and what is eroding the foundations this country was built on.
It would be SOOO much better if we were all just Americans, working to make America a better place, for America... one Nation, under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all... wouldn't it? (I made that deal, with my country, every school day for about 12 yrs... I find it hard to forget... do our elected officials remember they did too?)
Krusty
[ July 05, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 05, 2004, 10:31 AM:
Krusty,
quote:
Even so called liberals pay taxes, some of us actually work hard to scrape out a living, don't break any laws, and are actually good Americans.
I highly resent any implication that I am not a good person, because of a "liberal" label you guys put on me.
Seems as though you labeled yourself a liberal.
I know that I don't care what polictical persuation someone is, and I don't think others do either, as long as that person uses some good ole fashioned common sense, but giving somebody something for nothing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and that is how most liberals and democrats feel this country needs, well not from me they don't, not if I can help it. If you are a liberal and don't feel that way, Great, make others with the same political ideas as you see things that way.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on July 05, 2004, 10:35 AM:
DOD, If you shoot another one like the one pictured, you should have the DNR do a test on it... there does not appear to be much coyote in that wolf.
Byron, great picture with Tanner.
Rich, with all those hunts planned, if you come home skunked due to poor weather or other challenges creating poor filming, we are going to know you are a jinx.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 10:36 AM:
DOD,
I used "so called liberals" first in the sentence... then I used the word "us".
To me that would imply I have labeled myself a "so called liberal", in reaction to Q's labelling me as a liberal.
I have been "so called" that by others here and elsewhere now too.
Plain enough english for you?
Krusty
P.S. Norm... I was wondering how long that familiy looked for the HUSKY dog DOD shot... don't look very coyote to me either.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 05, 2004, 10:58 AM:
Ah Krusty, ya see there ya have it, just like a liberal, say one thing, then try to side step and explain that you really meant something else.
When some uses "us" in a sentence, it implies to me that they are including themselves, THAT is plain enough english for me.
Here is a definition for ya
quote:
The plural nominative case of the pronoun of the first person; the word with which a person in speaking or writing denotes a number or company of which he is one, as the subject of an action expressed by a verb.
Glad you like the coyote by the way.
[ July 05, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: DOD ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2004, 11:07 AM:
Krusty, you've seen the map.
You got the blue and you got the red. American politics have become polarized to the point where many of us can't see a middle ground. I know my values are not represented by the Media, Jessie, Teddy, or Kerry....or Hillary.
The same people that made excuses for Clinton get in a dither over imagined lies by Bush. They would sabotage the Iraq war, and the war on terror for domestic political reasons. This, I find beneath contempt.
So, there you go. One side wants to throw money at every minority while tearing down American institutions like the Second Ammendment; for example. One side wants free abortions on demand and the other side wants to end the slaughter of the innocent.
Rather than finding common ground, there is less and less room for compromise. The whole process has become completely polarized. No other word for it.
I'm starting to see the causes of the Civil War in a new light. A lot of people would be a lot happier if the whole country were divided down the middle with conservatives on one side and liberals on the other, since one of us lives on another planet anyway.
America has not become a better place, in my lifetime. I don't feel good about the prospects for my children and grandchildren in this brave new world.
For those that were attracted to the coyote question, I apologize. Staying on topic has never been a requirement on Huntmasters.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 11:10 AM:
DOD,
Yep, I agree... I am one of the individuals in the group of "SO-CALLED liberals"... called that by persons other than myself.
(There I added a hyphen, to denote that "so called" was used as a single adjective, to describe a person who is thought to be liberal)
Sheesh... So now this is Language Masters?
And yeah I like the "coyote" did the tag on the collar say "King", and IT is the King of coyotes!?!? LMAO
Be sure of your target and your backdrop, eh Vic?
Krusty
P.S DOD, if you want your picture to come out... you have to first "host it someplace" like photobucket.com...
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 05, 2004, 11:11 AM:
Leonard, will you move Krusty's posts and all replys to them to the political forum so we can get back to big coyotes here?
Posted by DOD (Member # 308) on July 05, 2004, 11:15 AM:
I'm done with it guys, have a great time, When I get accused of shooting someones dog, buy someone who does not know me at all, or my hunting ethics, it's unbelievable. Personally I wouldn't/couldn't do that, but thats me.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2004, 11:21 AM:
Krusty, DOD is not seeing your humor so maybe you should explain yourself? Briefly.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 11:36 AM:
DOD,
I am truly sorry you got upset... I was only poking fun at you and your giant canid. (good thing I didn't use my Photoshop joke LOL)
I took quite a lot of heat this past few days, and tried to do so in good humor... you should try to take what comes your way in good humor too.
What do I know anyway, it's not like I am some predator expert???
My opinion at best, should merely evoke a chuckle from you "experienced" guys. It surely can't carry that much weight or validity.
OKAY THEN BACK TO BIG COYOTES:
Can someone explain to me why the NE corner of the US, and one side of Texas would have the biggest coyotes?
I mean that goes against the whole Berman's (Bergman? or whoever) theory on cold climates and mammalian body size, doesn't it?
Why aren't Texas coyotes small with thin fur coats, and Alaskan coyotes as big as bears, and shaggy as a muskox?
Krusty
P.S. Rich, Q is the one who brought up politics, and hung a target on me... it was never my intention to turn this to politics.
But like Leonard said, staying "on topic" is not one of the rules here.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on July 05, 2004, 11:44 AM:
Krusty,
Having Siberians as pets, I don't think the animal the DOD shot looks like any dog.
Having spent 13 years as DOD's neighbor (Freeport, ME), I know that the coyotes there do not compare to the coyotes I call here in AZ;
I did not have the fortune of calling coyotes in ME as my boys needed a taxi driver to take them from one hockey tourney to another, then one lacrosse tourney to another and so on. I did spend my time bowhunting deer and bear when I had available time and was able to observe them working the timber lines from above.
But even the ones I was able to observe, did not have the wolf like facial features like DOD shot.
All I know is that across this country, there are many different representations of this animal we call a coyote. In addition, once the great battle described in the Bible is over, there will still be coyotes and cockroaches looking for food.
Time to start a new thread.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 11:56 AM:
Norm,
Actually and honestly, whatever it is that DOD shot bears a striking resemblance to the Alaskan dog we had, and to one my Grandmother had from the same part of Alaska.
Both of the dogs I knew had wolf in them, one was half wolf (it's father) and the other a couple generations removed.
I did take my joke too far and I made my apologies for that... all we can do now is to "buck up" move on.
For a bunch of guys, who kill things for fun, some of you seem a little too sensitive.
At least I never said anyone here was a bad person. LOL (joke)
Krusty
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 05, 2004, 12:59 PM:
Genetic Eastern Wolf Findings:
In a laboratory located at the University of Trent, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada, Dr. Bradley White and his associates have spent the last four years collecting 2,043 wild canids to analyze their genetic makeup. These specimens have come from throughout Ontario, New York, and northern New England. He used as control groups coyote DNA from Texas and gray wolf DNA from Canada's northwest territories. Below are some of his findings.
Algonquin Park wolves are not small versions of gray wolves, but they are identical to red wolves. They find that there are thousands of Algonquin - red wolves.
Eastern Canadian wolves evolved in North America along with the coyote while gray wolves evolved in Asia then crossed over to North America. The small eastern Canadian coyote wolves are the only ones that mate with coyotes in the wild.
In Ontario's Algonquin Park, the Eastern Canadian wolf is holding its own, but to the south they interbreed with coyotes. At the northern end of the park and beyond, they mate with gray wolves. The results are large coyotes (from the mix) and smaller gray wolves where both wolves' territories overlap.
By using skull size and two DNA markers, researchers can trace the ancestry of the specimens and even tell with a hybrid if it was the result of a male wolf mating with a female coyote or visa versa.
So far in overlapping areas it is still the male wolf breeding with a female coyote, and the off spring if they stay in a wolf pack are subservient because size matters and these hybrids are smaller than pure wolves. If there was a change and dominant female wolves bred with male coyotes, there could be major problems within the wolf pack structure because the size of the offspring would be more uniformed.
To the north of Algonquin Park, the female Eastern Canadian wolf seems to be mating with the male gray wolves, so there hasn't been a drastic drop-off in size, since some of these big gray wolves weigh well over one hundred pounds. They are predators of moose and caribou. The Eastern Canadian wolf weighs on average 50-70 pounds, and they hunt smaller pray like deer and beaver
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2004, 01:10 PM:
That's extremely interesting stuff, Dennis. Thanks for sharing.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by RanUtah (Member # 18) on July 05, 2004, 01:11 PM:
Krusty, I don't think these guys are sensitive, a better word would be passonate. We all wanna hold onto what we have left, ie, hunting privledges, gun rights etc. I just wish the tread would have stayed on track about the size of coyotes, the talk is interesting.
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on July 05, 2004, 01:17 PM:
60 lb coyote with 5'8" stretch from tip of nose to end of tail.
If this subject stays on track, it's really interesting stuff and I'm enjoying it!
Posted by RanUtah (Member # 18) on July 05, 2004, 01:20 PM:
Crow Woman, that's a big one for sure!
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on July 05, 2004, 01:24 PM:
Thanks... The one thing that amazes me still to this day is the size of his chest cavity! He was running with a smaller coyote at the time, exact coloring as him.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2004, 01:51 PM:
Something we should remember is that there is more to it than size.
We have reports of coyotes in various areas that do not vocalize, or respond vocally.
We are hearing about coyotes that are shy, about coyotes that eat road killed deer, run with feral dogs, don't associate with feral dogs. Won't respond to rabbit distress, don't hunt at night, won't go near a vehicle; and ignore vehicles...you name it?
Then we saw a photo of a coyote that appeared, to the majority to be a small animal but which weighed as much as any coyote that I've ever seen before.
What it proves is that the coyote is adaptive and diverse. Hard to put him in a box.
The funny thing is; the coyote I know is just part of the whole, but it's the one I know, and relate to. The others may as well be different animals. I don't know them, at all.
Interesting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 05, 2004, 02:19 PM:
Randy,
Nobody wishes more than I do, that my political postition had never been dragged out into this discussion... but once under "fire" I felt the need to defend myself, and the fire kept coming.
I think that if any of my opinions or jokes hurt any feelings or pissed anyone off I need to make my apologies, and did.
But I also think like I stated before if anyone places that much stake in what a clown like me says... they are too sensitive.
All I ask is that (like Leonard did) that we keep the discussion to real proven facts, not conjecture at a doctoral level.
Like DOD said, a DR. in front of a guys name don't mean he has all the answers.
And like Mr Higgins always points out, we are not dealing with one coyote animal.... but many many subspecies, each with it's own adaptive skills to suit it's place in whatever food chain it is a part of.
Only the yippers know for sure..... and they aint tellin'!!!
Oh yeah.... Leonard, aren't 20 pound Californian bass actually transplanted Florida Black Bass, and not the same largemouth bass (many of which came out of Oklahoma and Texas during the dust bowl migrations) that are found throughout most of the rest of the country, and in Cal?
Krusty
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 05, 2004, 02:54 PM:
Coywolf or coyote? What did it weigh?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on July 05, 2004, 02:58 PM:
Dang Q! He's got that deep chest cavity like mine did. He looks a bit heavier though... so I'll say 62 lbs. It's kind of hard to say how long he is without anyone standing by him. But I'll stick to that guess. BTW... S-W-E-E-T!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 05, 2004, 03:15 PM:
Krusty-
Bergman's Rule refers to the overall body size of an animal, with larger animals being noted in higher latitudes. The reason being a matter of body temp regulation and the ffects of surface area vs volume. Another rule, and I cannot recall the exact name, has to do with shorter legs, larger ears, etc. in desert vs arctic climates and everywhere in between.
Also, why are these critters being seen in the northeast US and eastern TX? Well, it might have to do with the fact that both areas were historically close to wolf range with greys in the NE and reds down south. I think it was pointed out by Rich at some point that for many years, the size and bulk of C. latrans frustror led many to falsely believe that this subsp. was part wolf, especially when compared to the otherwise more modest subspecies with whom they overlapped or shared some range.
Sheri,
As far as thoracic structure on those big coyotes, I submit the common bobcat. I can tell a tom from a queen from a hundred feet away here in KS. Their heads are much larger and blockier, their chests are deeper and wider, and there is much more mass to the shoulder and pelvic girdles, much like your basic run of the mill African lion or the whitetail deer. The biggest coyote I ever killt here tipped at just over 41#. DOD's big coyote has the bulk of a hybrid, but the face is all coyote to me. Coyotes have much more pointier (is that a word) muzzles with a much sharper angle just anterior to the zygomatic breadth than does a wolf. He's big - damned big - but he still looks as much coyote as he does wolf.
Q-
Telephone pole! I don't care who y'are. That right there is funny!!!
[ July 05, 2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on July 05, 2004, 07:38 PM:
Here is a picture of the 50 pounder in the truck. I couldn't find a picture so I lifted this one off the footage of us weighing him. Notice the short hair. This was taken last December. If this coyote was fured up like the one in Q's picture he would be mounted in my living room.
Krusty, I don't think anybody suggested that you were bad . Stupid maybe, but not bad .
Good Hunting
Byron
[ July 05, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2004, 07:53 PM:
For Quinton's coyote, I'm going to say 44 pounds. What do I win?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 05, 2004, 08:08 PM:
44 and one half. What do I win?
Byron you crack me up.
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on July 05, 2004, 11:13 PM:
40 pounds shot in January 1997 what do I win? LOL
Posted by Yellerdog (Member # 356) on July 06, 2004, 05:07 AM:
I just registered on here! What do I win?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on July 06, 2004, 05:55 AM:
Welcome YellerDog,
What you win is getting to hang out with these guys. But thats a pretty good prize. There is more good knowledge and less drivel here than anywhere on the net. Leonard runs a 1st class place.
Posted by Yellerdog (Member # 356) on July 06, 2004, 06:05 AM:
Cal Taylor,
That does sound like a fantastic prize. Everyone was wanting a prize there, so I thought I may as well jump in!
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 06, 2004, 08:00 AM:
You guys are greedy! “What do I win, what do I win?” Sheesh! Hows a bout a brand new Krusty Krier call? Or a $20 donation to John Kerry’s election campaign? LOL I think Bryan nailed it. It was about 40lbs and I think I even shot it in January. Can’t remember if it was in 97 though but it dang sure could have been.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 06, 2004, 09:01 AM:
"a brand new Krusty Krier(s) call"....
For who??? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
lol
Krusty
[ July 06, 2004, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on July 06, 2004, 10:07 AM:
In all honesty, my “guess” should be thrown out I cheated…. http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000196 I knew I knew I had seen that picture before. LOL The “prize” that yellerdog got is just fine by me!
edit to make the link work
[ July 06, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Bryan J ]
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on July 06, 2004, 10:52 AM:
I knew I posted it before but I wasn’t sure where. I was about ready to e-mail you for some lottery numbers. LOL Ya, this is a pretty good place to hang out. If we get board we just pick on Krusty. Krusty is like a proverbial case of the herpes. Just when you think he is gone you get another annoying outbreak. LOL
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 06, 2004, 01:16 PM:
Speaking of pockets... I'm a believer.
For several years, I weighed every coyote I killed, and most of the ones others killed while I was hunting with them. Like Byron said, my scales aren't exactly "certified", just a fish scale, but they give me a reference that is good enough for my purposes. Don't weigh many anymore, as I learned what I was looking to learn. But, anyway... In almost all of the places I hunt, 30 pounds is a pretty big coyote. One "area" I hunt though, they definitely run bigger. Most adults go 30 pounds or more there, with the biggest I have taken being 37 pounds. A 1 - 2 hour hiway run puts me back in the 24 - 28 pound adults. They look identical, to me, except for the size. Best as I can tell, they all eat about the same too (from the year I cut open stomachs...). If I had to guess, I'd guess that the smaller variety I get most everywhere are Mearns, and the big boys are Mountain. But I wouldn't bet anything on me being right about that, as I really don't know. My only point being, these larger coyotes exist in what I'd call a "pocket", and I've always thought it kind of interesting.
I get what I consider to be credible reports of coyotes over 40 pounds from Nevada every once in awhile too. All killed by the same guy, or members of his party. One of them, from about five years ago, went 52 pounds. I'd believe the guy, just on his word, but he also sent me video of that one, and it sure looks all of 50 to me. Bryan also knows the guy I'm talking about.
- DAA
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 06, 2004, 03:48 PM:
Q,
"...like ...the herpes"
Now that was a good burn! 
I 'bout fell out my chair laughing!!!
Nice catch there, yersef, Bryan J... I thought I'd seen that giant canid before, too.
And actually I don't think you have a Krusty Kriers call yet, that I remember... I'd be proud to give ya the prize Q has offered up.
A really sweet english walnut, open reed call just became available today... I had made an open reed and a closed reed not knowing which the guy would choose... he chose the closed reed.
I'll voice it like a jackrabbit, being dragged down a gravel road, and you can try it on yer desert dogs.
Krusty
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on July 07, 2004, 01:10 PM:
Krusty, I will send you an e-mail. Thank you. I’m surprised you didn’t let me know that I said “I knew” twice. LOL
I know who you are talking about Dave, and I would take his word for gold. I have seen a pelt that he still has hanging in the fur-shed that was killed by his son. I can’t remember what he said it weighed but the stretched and dried pelt was huge in comparison to the rest of his fur. He had to build a special stretcher for that one.
Posted by crapshoot (Member # 225) on July 07, 2004, 03:23 PM:
Wished I would have had a scale for this one. To bad the hide was rubbed also. 
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on July 07, 2004, 07:47 PM:
Bryan J,
"I knew that I knew"... I believe, that I believe, that that is what you meant to say! Hehehe
I really am not the Spaling Peleece... it was just the way "defiantly coyotes" came out, that had me in stitches.
And I figured someone might appreciate the joke in it, I certainly did.
Well guys, no more jokes, no teasing, no posting... I am going back into the lurker mode.
Sorry for any ruffled feathers, or hurt feelings.
Krusty
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0