quote:

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If a coyote gets run all over hell every time he howls do you think he'll eventually learn to shut up? You bet they will and they do.

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Amen!

Dennis
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on March 23, 2005, 06:27 PM:
 
Glad to see you around WileyE. It's about time. I was going to come to Belle and see what you had to say, but lacked the time, as usual. Great Post!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 23, 2005, 06:37 PM:
 
Scott,

Good stuff. Thanks.

For the sake of discussion, I'll throw a problem that I, and my fellow coyote compadres, deal with every year - dog wagons. Refer to #'s 7, 9, and 10.

You can tell to the day when the dog wagons become active around here. When you have trucks and ATV's running thru every pocket of available bit of cover as many as three or four days a week, responses become all but zero. Often, I'll move into areas where the wagons can't go, but those are few and far between. As you stated, it takes them about a half-hour to go completely nocturnal and I swear the bitches are teaching this behavior to their pups because this past year, we saw only one pair of coyotes in the light of day that weren't responding to a call, and they bugged out as soon as they saw us. There are plenty of them around as evidenced by tracks and late nite vocalizations, but they sure aren't showing themselves in the light of day. And, we can't call at night. I've tried everything I know to do to make magic happen to no avail, and I've seen some pretty danged good callers around here blank as well.

Any suggestions from you or anyone else for this problem would be well worth my trying this next season. I'm open to suggestions.
 

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Posted by slug0 (Member # 455) on March 23, 2005, 07:03 PM:
 
Good lecture Wiley E I think you nailed it pretty good. I have hunted the coyote in the west a little and in the east a little more.They are the same except for size,and the fact that the eastern dogs have the advantage of terrain and vegetation working in there favor.Also there are fewer coyotes and more people.We have been dealt a sorry hand indeed,I guess we will just have to become better players
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2005, 07:29 PM:
 
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, Slug0. Glad to have you on board. My apologies for missing your first post.

*********************************

Scott, the answer to the question is numbers. I don't believe there are enough coyotes in the east to sustain the number of hunters chasing them?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on March 23, 2005, 08:05 PM:
 
Scott,

You hit the nail on the head!

" There has to be coyotes there to call coyotes".

This is the #1 problem in the East. The coyote numbers are not here like they are in the West. There are pockets of coyotes and areas that hold coyotes, but there not everywere you go. You haft to find them! They also have big home ranges, and may cross many small farms. And you haft to be were the coyotes are at that time to call them in.

Very well put! Great post!

Brent
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on March 23, 2005, 10:12 PM:
 
Brent,

Haven't you heard the line "I know there are coyotes here, my neighbors, cousins, buddy heard them howling one night last fall"

That's what keeps so many call makers in business. If the coyotes don't respond, it must be because the wrong call was being used.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on March 23, 2005, 10:14 PM:
 
I think our coyote population here in New Hampshire is larger than many people believe, but not as large as some would have you believe.

We are blessed with snow. One full day of walking an area after a fresh snowfall will tell you more about the coyotes in your area than a years worth of running and gunning by the seat of your pants. It'll also show you where the prey animals are.

Our topography ranges from what we call "mountains" to fields and wood lots. Vegitation is a mix of deciduous trees with spruce, hemlock, and white pine thrown into the mix, mostly old growth forest.

Plenty of water, not much calling presure, but it is getting more popular, and a lot of human disturbance in the form of mountain bikers in the summer, to snow machine riders and cross country skiiers in the winter.

The eastern cottontail is now protected in a large portion of the state, snow shoe hares are abundant in the north, deer herd is small, turkey population is growing. It's not a suppermarket for the coyotes. They have to work to eat I think.

Big Game hunting is deer hunting here. 3 months of bow, with a little over a month of deer, so there are big game hunters in the woods from mid September to mid December, with the majority between the last week of October and the first week of December. Small game hunting is not as popular, but there are a few out and about during the same time frame.

No dog disturbances to really speak of.

In my experience, the major problem for many of the coyote hunters here in New Hampshire is that they don't scout, and they don't pay attention to how they get to or from an area.

What works for me many times is to actually stalk into an area to call. It may take awhile, but if I am only going to get a limited number of opportunities I want to make the most of them by not alerting everything in the woods that I am out and about. I use the deer hunters trick of keeping a turkey call in my mouth when moving trough the woods. If I make a nosie I will give a few clucks or a cackles and stay still for a bit. I walk the edges of fields, not across them, and I move slowly when in the timber. My goal is to get into the area I am going to call without letting them know I am there before I let them know where I am by calling.

Hunting out of tree stands with an E caller helps me to be able to pick them up better in the early fall also.

I don't think hunting coyotes in the east is as tough as we make it on ourselves. I think woodsmanship is very important. We may not have 9 coyotes per square mile, but if you do your homework, you should be hunting in an area that has at least one family group living in it.

One tip on locating coyotes that has worked for me in New Hampshire is that everytime I am out driving around and see one of those homemade posters about a lost cat or dog, I make a note of it, especially if it is a small dog and the poster is in a subdivision that is bordered by or close to land that is undeveloped. I try and take a walk on that land after a snow fall. It has yeilded me many a place to call that I might not have found otherwise.

Al
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on March 24, 2005, 12:17 AM:
 
Wiley E. Thank you for the post. It is informative on many levels. I personally had never given any consideration to the age of the animals that I call to other than the time of year that I’m calling. I have always just given them a year for each month that they survive after August. LOL

My biggest problem is my own ignorance. Where are the coyotes and when are they there and why? Then, how will they react to the pressure that I put on them once I start getting closer to what is going on? Then the confidence factor comes into play, I have a long way to go before I can look at the area around the north and south ends of the big salty puddle and say there are coyotes here and I can call them. All stuff I have to learn by putting time in the field, failing sometimes, getting lucky others.

Lance those two coyotes have to be the same two coyotes that I saw in Kansas while I was there. I have been thinking a lot about that stretch of the trip. It is hard not to overanalyze it after having our pants around our ankles like that. Although we could, it would be too easy to blame the weather.
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on March 24, 2005, 12:22 AM:
 
Tim,

I have heard that line a 1000 times! Hey all is good I will sell them as many calls as they want but I like to see them kill something with them!..lol

THO...Good to see ya over here! You said it though...You scout! And find the coyotes, most people dont. They think you can go out and set down in the woods, (as long as the winds right) and blow a call and they should run over ya! There just are not enough coyotes here yet to be able to go out and just cold call. If you find them you can kill them. I think finding the coyotes is the main reason some eastern caller fail. Then there set ups would be next.

Brent

[ March 24, 2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: keekee ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 24, 2005, 05:32 AM:
 
Scott, is the Chicago study completed? Do you have the dissertation?
 

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Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on March 24, 2005, 07:34 AM:
 
Good lecture Scott, Thanks.

The one thing I have found that successfull Easterns callers have in comon is that they are not just good callers, but good hunters as well. They pay attention to details and put the pieces of the puzzle together. A guy hunting in areas with lots of coyotes can safely assume that where ever he sits and blows a call that a coyote will be within ear shot. Not so in the East, not by a long shot in some areas. The amount of pressure on the Eastern coyote is also a factor, but I feel it is often overstated. If you have done your home work, set up correctly and give him the opportunity he will respond just like his Western cousin. Just don't expect him to come from a mile away. As THO said you have to sneak in sometimes. Earlier this year I was hunting a small piece of property just outside of Gladewater Texas (Far East Texas). Lots of houses and small properties ranging mostly from 2-maybe 10 acres. Right amoungst this is a 80 acre piece of property. This property is very thick and hilly. The dry oak leaves and briars makes slipping in very difficult. We made two stands on this place with out any takers. Then I moved closer to the one corner I felt my calls hadn't reached and within seconds had a double coming (One was jet black, got video ). My point is these coyotes probably had not even heard my previous calling efforts, and I don't call softly. I say this because of how quickly they responded when they did hear it. When hunting some places in the West I can cast my sound to coyotes a mile away in all directions and have them respond. This ain't happening in most of the East. Even if they could hear it their would be so many obsticles and exposer to danger in the way they would probably not bother to come that mile. So, the way I see the West compared to the East as it pertains to calling coyotes is this. A Western caller is calling further distances on larger tracts of land, at larger populations of less spooky coyotes. The Eastern caller is calling shorter distances on small tracts of land at spookier coyotes that may or may not be there at that paricular time. Western callers can afford to make a few mistakes because of the terrain and number of coyotes they have to deal with. Eastern callers, if they want to be successfull can not afford to make any mistakes if they want to succeed. I enjoy the challenge of hunting souped up, persecuted, spooky coyotes but they are pretty much still just a coyote and coyotes come to calls East and West. Heres something else for you Western callers to think about. Imagine having your large tracks of public property divided up into 20-100 acres tracks and having access to the best calling spots denied. Then go driving out through the country only to see pickups parked on the weekends at the entrance to these properties all through deer season. We all have obsticles East and West, but isn't this challenge why we do it?

I hear it all the time, "YEAH, BUT, our coyotes are different" No they ain't. Still just an OPORTUNISTIC coyote, and given the opportunity, he will weigh the cost, loss ratio and come dicideing on which way it falls. Just make it easy for him and he will come, almost every time. (Diclaimer-IF HE IS THERE . THE FIRST TIME ).

I often wonder how many coyotes are called in the East and West that are never seen. I'll be willing to bet that it happens more in the thicker stuff. This is another reason you can't make many mistakes in the East. They are tough to call the second time.

Thanks again Scott. This is one of my favorite subjects.

Byron

[ March 24, 2005, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 24, 2005, 04:49 PM:
 
Rich,

Hi! Haven't seen anything in print yet on the Chicago Study.

THO: "One full day of walking an area after a fresh snowfall will tell you more about the coyotes in your area than a years worth of running and gunning by the seat of your pants. It'll also show you where the prey animals are."

Excellent advice!

You get a gold star for that one. LOL!

THO: "What works for me many times is to actually stalk into an area to call."

Another gold star.

Try this Easterners. Go to a somewhat undisturbed area that you know has coyotes.

Talk to the landowners ahead of time and ask them to take special note of where they are hearing the coyotes howl as the yard lights are coming on. I'm assuming they are vocal in your area which may not be the case. Where they are howling as the yard lights are coming on is where they are more than likely spending the day.

Where they howl at during the middle of the night doesn't tell you anything other than there is coyotes in the area.

If you can, slip out there yourself some evening as the yard lights are coming on and locate them yourselves.

With the knowledge of where the coyotes are spending their day, plan your calling stand accordingly making sure you can get into your stand without being seen, heard or smelled by stalking into the area like THO recommended.

For this method to be effective, you either need a partner or you need a remote caller.

As an example, let's say that you are on an East West Road and the area you believe the coyotes are staying in is to the E about 1 mile and a about 1/2 mile S of the road.

To the west of those coyotes is a small open meadow with scattered brush piles or bales or some other obstruction to hide the caller.

This meadow is surrounded with timber.

Lets say you have a North West wind.

Walk in the timber on the West side of the meadow to where you can barely see into the meadow and circle to the SW corner of the meadow.

At this point, you need to walk towards an obstruction out in the meadow and place the caller or your calling partner who will be doing the calling.

The shooter needs to be straight downwind of the caller, just inside the timber where you can barely see out into the meadow. This is the point that the coyotes will more than likely circle to. It's as close to a guarantee as you will get with coyotes. You may even consider a portable tree stand for the shooter if the cover is too thick.

It's assumed that the coyotes are straight East of the caller.

When the caller in the meadow starts calling what do think most coyotes will do? Most will not come direct, most will circle downwind just inside the timber to where they are concealed but to where they can see out into the meadow.

By making it easy for them to circle downwind of the caller, most will.

That's where the shooter be.

POP FLOP!

"DID YA GET EM BOB?"

"YUP" came the reply!

This is the type of strategy that is required to deal with the problems of calling Eastern Coyotes. It's no different in the Mountain country.

You have to understand and work with their natural behavior.

It's just like training horses. You make the right thing easy for them.

~SH~

[ March 24, 2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on March 24, 2005, 07:16 PM:
 

quote:

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Where they are howling as the yard lights are coming on is where they are more than likely spending the day.

Where they howl at during the middle of the night doesn't tell you anything other than there is coyotes in the area.

If you can, slip out there yourself some evening as the yard lights are coming on and locate them yourselves.

With the knowledge of where the coyotes are spending their day, plan your calling stand accordingly making sure you can get into your stand without being seen, heard or smelled by stalking into the area like THO recommended

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I agree, if you can get them them to talk, dusk is by far and away the best time to locate coyotes. Wiley E didn't mention this,but I find there's no need to get out early the next morning to get setup. The last thing you need is that the coyotes are not yet home and possibly coming in from your back side.

Dennis
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 25, 2005, 05:02 AM:
 
Greenside: "Wiley E didn't mention this,but I find there's no need to get out early the next morning to get setup. The last thing you need is that the coyotes are not yet home and possibly coming in from your back side."

Another "gold star".

I have killed far more coyotes between 8A and 10A Mountain than I have ever killed at any other time of day.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 06, 2005, 08:50 PM:
 
Wiley your last name got to be coyote....I agree with all you said...I bet all the other fellers do to.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 06, 2005, 10:01 PM:
 
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, Melvyn, Glad to have you on board.

As far as the comment about the success between 8 and 10 AM, I can go along with that, but I'm not sure what's going on, in addition. In other words, it seems to me that something is changing, weather wise, when I notice a mid morning eagarness to come to the call.

However, a guy like Higgins is almost manic about making that first stand at the crack of dawn, and has told me that he feels it is by far the most productive of the day, for him. Or most reliable...something like that?

I go along with that too, as far as a goal. I want to be there, and have superb confidence in that predawn setup. However, I think, in the first three hours, it's all good.

Actually, the time that sticks in my head is 9:30. Everything before 9:30 is great, and anything past 9:30 is not as good.....depending on specific conditions, of course.

For example, a light snow or drizzle, 9:30 is meaningless. As long as the conditions stay the same, the action should continue, as well.

Sometimes, maybe the coyotes like to sleep in, if it's bitterly cold? Might explain seeing a good response between 8&10 A.M. and not before?

Has nothing to do with it, but fish; like trout, can be the same way. Sometimes not? Some lakes in the High Sierras, the bite at first light can be a bit disappointing.

Good hunting. LB

[ April 06, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 08, 2005, 02:06 PM:
 
Thanks Leonard for the welcome...I,m more than happy to be here with a great bunch of fellow coyote and predator callers..Trappers and dog men to.

I have been reading some of the questions and replies on calling the eastern coyote and would like to tell about a couple hunts i was on here in pa.

Before i go into the two hunts..I want you guys know that i use mouth calls only and i am very good at howling coyotes in and calling them in with predator calls.....I should, i make my own calls and i use calls made by other manufactures.
When you make calls you get plenty of practice.

Sorry....I don't sale calls

Just to be good with a call doesn't mean your gone to put fur on the stretcher...Boy did i learn that one fast!!Set up means just as much or more here in the east.

So with that said lets get started with hunt no.1

I made a setup on game lands in the mountains not far from my home...I sat in the woods just off the dirt road.Across the road from me was a long narrow feeder field and from where i sat it was roughly 40 yards across before it broke into heavy timber.I knew there was a small pond just to my left and inside the thick brush and timber.Well i reached into my leather pouch and pulled one of my howlers out and left loose with a couple good young male howls and you probably guessed it..I got an answere not from one coyote but two!I figured the one had to be female cause it shut up.That male dog was mouthy and coming fast and darned if he didn't stop just inside the timber about ten yards from the field.Well i used about all the coyote language i knew and he was throwing a lot back to me...I tried everything i knew in coyote language and some i didn't know that he was using...This coyote was only about 50 yards from just inside the brush at the other side of the field.Now some may not believe this but this coyote stayed there for almost 1/12 hours with me and i never seen him once.He would go back and forth inside the timber but never step out so i could take a shot.

My question is...Have any of you ever had a coyote stay that long with you?

OH yes i tried puppy whimpers and distress...rabbit distress to
In the end i had to leave this coyote
All this began in early morning

Well fellas i better skip story no.2 Might get kicked out of here..Tell it another day
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 08, 2005, 02:11 PM:
 
Hey guys that was 11/2 hours with that coyote
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 08, 2005, 06:16 PM:
 
That's normal territorial defensive behavior. I run out of battery and or tape and have to break it off before the coyote is ready fairly often. It keeps you coming back for more.
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on April 08, 2005, 10:30 PM:
 
Same here I filmed one this year for 60 min, it was just inside the tree line from were I was set up. Was about 100 yards from me from me, walking back and forth just inside the tree line. I worked him and howled back and forth with him for 60 min. Had to change the tape and the battery.

Finally, I went to some puppy howls, and a adult answer....then strait to the puppy wines, cry and destress. They "yes" they, two coyotes broke from the tree line and ran right to me. The other coyote had never made a sound the hole time, and never moved until the first coyote headed in to the call. My shooter missed! Oh well! Sometimes its worth sticking out! And made great footage!

Brent
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 09, 2005, 08:50 PM:
 
I believe you are right about that teratorial behavior Rich.I just never experienced it before

The fellas back here just didn't seem to believe that a coyote would stick around that long.Sorta gets a little frustating after a while not seeing it.I'm glad to hear from you and keekee getting the same experience.Now i got some fodder to show those disbelievers it does happen.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 10, 2005, 06:50 AM:
 
Melvin,

In the vast majority of instances, the reason they don't believe a coyote will stick around that long is because they're in such a big hurry to kill it. Most guys froth at the mouth as soon as they see one coming in and can't just wait for the shot opportunity. I, too, have had them stay around, in the open in my case , so long that the battery went dead and I had to slip away when he wasn't looking. And, yes, it's amazing to see an animal that seems to be so damned smart, be so damned gullible.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 10, 2005, 07:49 AM:
 
I've got them to hang around several times too. But not for a camera, I was just waiting for a good shot. I made a bet a few years ago that I could kill 10 coyotes with 10 shots, using 15 grain Bergers in my 17 Remington. Getting a coyote to hold his head still long enough to shoot isn't always easy.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 10, 2005, 09:05 AM:
 
Their comfort level or perceived threat level also determines how long they will remain and the level of emotion they display.
Last Sat. I took a member of the club calling to the camera. On the first stand a mature male came in fast head down. He saw my profile and veered to his left around the crest of the hill I was set up on and toward my Bronco. I continued on the howler and he began to answer. We crawled to the crest of the hill and got the camera on him as he stood and bark howled in sight of the truck. After a time he continued past the truck across our downwind and onto a ridge 125 yards out where he continued to howl and bark. After another ten minutes I got up and did a solo ugly cow on it and it let me get within 50 or so yards before the wind changed and it disappeared over the ridge. I walked back and turned off the camera and talked to Mark about what he just saw and the coyote appeared in the same spot again and started barking.
We left, set up at another location up in the boulders and had two males come in during the second series.They began bark howling about 30 yards out. After a couple of minutes the older coyote walked over to the shade of a boulder and lifted his leg on a clump and the two continued to barkhowl. A few minutes later the other coyote joined the first, marked on the clump and stood in the shade and barked as the older coyote walked 20 yards to his left and sat down. He would occasionally howl while the other coyote barkhowled constantly. Soon the old one laid down and would occasionally lift his nose and force out a halfass little threat howl. He just wasn't as emotionally involved. When the tape and the battery both ended we stood up and so did the coyotes. They walked together to another clump and marked it, stood and looked at us as we stood in plain sight and talked about what just happened. They slowly walked away to their right stopping and looking us over every few feet. No barking or howling. It took them five minutes to get out of sight. I do this kind of thing alot and still think it is very cool. It was a first for Mark.
 

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Posted by CBGC (Member # 643) on April 25, 2005, 04:39 PM:
 
This is my first post here and I would like to say hello. I would also like to say I have never hunted coyotes west of PA so it is hard for me to compare hunting them.

I know they are genetically a different animal, DNA tests prove this. The coyote bred with the grey wolf in Canada on its push back east and thus you have the canis latrans var. Many people use the Mississippi river as the dividing line for east vs west, this is incorrect. Many furbearing scientist and biologist use the Ohio valley as the dividing line. The eastern coyote moved above the great lakes and down. I am not an expert on this matter but I have done a little reading on it. One book that I highly recommend is the: Eastern Coyote The Story of Its Success By Gerry Parker. Once you pick this book up it is very hard to put down, you can find it at Amazon.com.

Like I said I have never hunted coyotes in the west so I cant say one is hard to hunt or not, but if I stood up on a coyote in PA, NY or VA like stated in the post above it would still be running!
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 25, 2005, 06:14 PM:
 
Its good to see another Pa. sportsman join up...I agree,our coyotes don't seem to stick around like there western brothern...But then most of our encounters with eastern coyotes are usualy much closer and usualy there is thick vegetation for them to duck into...Where upon the western coyote can be seen at longer distances...There is no question that they are harder to call in and see here in pa.and cover plays as one of the biggest factors...canis latrans var as called by scientific name is one smart animal...Maybe the grey wolf plays a part in it to
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 25, 2005, 06:44 PM:
 
Naw, It's just like Scott said when he started this thread.

Them Easter coyotes are a piece of cake, To a real hunter. A coyote is a coyote is a coyote. I think the problem is there just isn't enough real hunters back East.
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 25, 2005, 07:02 PM:
 
You been eating to much mexican food Tim..LOL...Come give it a try...See if you can earn that peice of cake...One of the best western callers i personaly know spent over 2 weeks calling and went home without his cake...All this thick cover we have is a real tormenter...Northern part of the state is the place to go....more open timber
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2005, 07:35 PM:
 
What you trying to do, Tim? Start a war? We may know a coyote is a coyote, but easterners don't think so. Also, to blow your cover, (for those that don't know) Tim is recently from someplace back east, but in relation to the Ohio Valley, I don't know?

Let us just say that there is much differing opinion on eastern and western coyotes, and where they are located, and what sort of interbreeding they have engaged in.

Oh, BTW Welcome to the New Huntmasters, CBGC. Glad to have you on board. Feel free to include your "link" as part of your signature, if you like.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 25, 2005, 07:54 PM:
 
So much misunderstanding here...these coyotes are no harder to call in than the western coyote...The difference is the cover..A coyote can circle and get the wind on you and without you knowing it...And something else...I lived in Sydney Nabraska...Know i blowed my cover
 

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Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 25, 2005, 08:22 PM:
 
call those eastern coyotes from a treestand... carry a climbing treestand... attach it to the tree and go for it... you will be able to see alot farther and reduce the run arounds.... there is a reason that most Eastern deer hunters hunt from a treestand....
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 25, 2005, 08:37 PM:
 
Norm i have never tried calling from a tree stand...I have killed deer from tree stands...I know some guys during the mosquito coyote hunt back here was using them...The guys in my area had no luck from tree stands...I don't use e callers and don't know if a coyote would respond to a rabbit up in a tree...Anyone who has used mouth calls from a tree with success?...I'm willing to give it a try
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2005, 09:30 PM:
 
I promise, they will respond to a rabbit in a tree. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 26, 2005, 04:32 AM:
 
I followed that other long thread and this one and gotta give my .02.

I dont know what you would consider where I live. Its midwest, so I dont know if thats really the eastern big woods, but its sure not Arizona. We have big woods, but also have alot of farm country. Smaller woodlots, fencerows and drainage ditches.

After hunting Arizona, for a limited time, but 95%+ of my time in Arizona was with Norm, a very good hunter, I gotta give this analogy. No doubt there are alot more coyotes in Cochise County than there are here. And when calling, I have no doubt seen coyotes on average stand to called coyote. But I still havent got the killing part down on those desert critters. I think the coyotes here are easier killed, as far as that goes.

For one, I think hunting pressure has something to do with it. There are alot of hardcore callers in that neck of the woods. Oh, theres plenty of space and animals, but they get hunted quite a bit. There are only a handfull of callers around this area, and most of them dont hardly hunt. But the biggest thing is the set ups. No matter how hard you try to set a stand according to the wind direction, terrain, ect.. you can seldom tell exactly how that coyotes gonna come in. Could be any angle, backdoor, anything. And shooting through that mesquite at a running coyote is a nightmare in itself.

So, even though the numbers are considerable less here, Im not too sure they are not easier to kill here. Your not going to call as many on an average day. I have had some exceptional days that would be only above average to alot of you western guys. But setting the animal up for the kill is easier.

Although they will come any direcetion, I have he best luck calling a coyote downhill here. And, he will most definitely use any available cover. They do not like to cross the big open fields.

So, my favorite places to call, is where a ditch or fencerow comes off a hill to another bigger ditch or fencerow. At the top of the hill there will be a patch of woods or brush and alot of times, several drainages coming together. Set your stand where the call is at or near the juction of the two pieces of cover and, depending on the wind, set yourself on one side or the other at 50-75 yards. A piece of rabbit hide doesnt hurt anything dangling near the call. Now, that animal is not going to come across that field and catch you at a weird angle. If you read the terrain at all, since there are roads at least every mile, your not gonna get back doored. Your gonna put the coyote right where you want him. Most times, if they dont do it on their own, a bark or squeak will give you your standing 50- 75 yard broadside shot.

Its not always that simple and it seems to average for me 1 called coyote (not killed coyote) every 5-7 stands. Sometimes better.

The west has alot more coyotes, from what I have seen and you can call more animals in less stands than you can here, but the killing sure is alot tougher, for me anyway. Im not the best shot in the world to begin with. And its sure as hell easier to kill a standing broadside coyote at 50 yards than one running like a striped ass ape zig zaggin through the brush.

East or west easier? I like em both.

Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2005, 09:20 AM:
 
Interesting perspective, and perhaps accurate? Never stepped foot in Missouri, myself, but I do consider it to be kinda, sorta; "eastern" in flavor.

Exactly what hardcore western area are you hunting; did you say? (just kidding)

Not only that, but when a "western" coyote romps in so eagarly, you may get one chance at a clear shot, and then again, maybe not. Never fear, there will be another one come along, in a moment.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 26, 2005, 10:11 AM:
 
The statements a coyote is a coyote is a coyote is true and so is a dog is a dog is a dog!I suppose you could take a poodle and make a good coon dog out of it or a pitbull and make a fine bird pointer also.The eastern coyote is very well adapted to the thickets,cutoffs and forests.Coyotes in the east,as a rule are larger do to the fact"scientists claim"they bred with the canadian wolf and then working there way down through the new england states.Are these coyotes smarter?I Don't think so.but i do think there adaption to the inviroment here makes them a tougher animal to hunt.The difference in coyotes are probably not much different than the easter and western coyote hunters,we seem to be calmer and from the posts i read some western hunters "not all" are more rowdy.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2005, 12:31 PM:
 
By the way, although you didn't ask for clarification: it is true that a coyote can be called from a tree stand.

Reason: Many hunters are starting to use ladders, out west, which gets them above the clutter. Coyotes are attracted, and shot.

Reason #2. I have hunted coyotes for well over three, going on four decades, from the roof of a vehicle, at night. They come in fine, no matter if the sound is coming from the ground, the road, or the roof of the camper.

No matter who you consider rowdy, or if they are just teasing, you should know that Tim is only about 10% western, having lived 90% of his life in Indiana.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on April 26, 2005, 03:44 PM:
 
I have hunted and killed coyotes from tree stands. It doesnt bother them at all!

But let me say this, lugging a climbing tree stand around the woods and hills sucks! They get cought on everything and take a while to set up, plus you cant just climb any tree with them. Is it worth the effort? Not for me!

I went and built me a pod! Very light easy to move and get threw the woods, has a swivele seat and gun rest on top and sets 6' off the ground. I started using this when I was hunting strip mine land all the time, I couldnt see down in the tall grass cover and the coyotes were right in my face before I knew they were there. After I built this pod and hunted off of it for a year, I will never lug a tree stand around the woods!

Its also great in the woods and clear cuts, field edges and allows you to see better in places were the ridge crests or a point drops off fast. They work very well. I wouldnt lug this babby around on an all day hiking hunt but for the most part the way I hant it works great. They are also great for night hunting with the swivel chair or butt seat on top and the gun rest.

Also you may want to check your local regs on hunting fur bearing animals out of a tree stand some state are not legal.

Brent
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 26, 2005, 04:00 PM:
 
Hi C.B.G.C., welcome. I agree with your post with this exception,

"Like I said I have never hunted coyotes in the west so I cant say one is hard to hunt or not, but if I stood up on a coyote in PA, NY or VA like stated in the post above it would still be running!"

You really should do a little experimenting with misting before making such a blanket statement. Gain a little experience tweaking their brain with the mist and then post your results. It will be fun and interesting for all.
I will be videoing more hunts in Pa. this year for the video. If you are interested in participating shoot me an e-mail.
 

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Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 26, 2005, 04:32 PM:
 
Hate Mail to GameCalls.net

Apparently someone doesn't like it that we promote hunting and sell game calls...

-Gary

Date: 23 Apr 2005 11:23:00 -0000

Subject: Your site is disgusting

The following information has been submitted from **************

I hope you go bankrupt....as bankrupt as your soul. It's disgusting and revolting how derelict of any compassion is in you. If there is such a thing as karma, you are in trouble. You'll come back as one of the poor animals you slaughter.

I tried to find a site that had the call of wolves in a natural settng and found you. Shame on you for what you do for a living. Just think, you could have been doing something positive for the world. And instead, you support death.

April 23, 2005
6:23:00 A.M. Central Time

I removed the name and address of this person but if you want to see it go to gamecalls.net chat forum

This is another person and another reason we all!West or east got to stick together even if we have our differences...I apoligize to anyone i have offended
 

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Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on April 26, 2005, 05:16 PM:
 
Andy L., where are you located in Mo.? I live near The towns of Mountain Grove and Cabool. Maybe we could meet sometime for a hunt.

Looking back on my first winter of calling I came to one conclusion awhile back. Each of the places that I killed a coyote this year, I had been to previously and knew where I was going to sit, or had prepared a place to sit. Everything was exactly right for what I wanted to do; wind, sun, time of day etc.. I am going to go and prepare places this summer where the spots were good this year, but things were just not quite right. Just trim limbs, add some background, or cut some small cedars and pile up for a blind. I'm hoping the little things will add up to bigger and better things this fall. That's my thoughts on evening the odds.
 

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Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on April 26, 2005, 05:51 PM:
 
Mr. Higgins,
You have e-mail.
 

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Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on April 26, 2005, 06:48 PM:
 
Brent,
Do you have a pic of that Pod? I'd be interested to see it. I agree with you on the treestands. It adds about a half hour to every set, its just not worth it to me.
 

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Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 26, 2005, 06:49 PM:
 
Leonard, Andy hunts that private piece of land north of I-10 and west of 193; San Carlos something; otherwise Tim and Victor have called em all.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2005, 07:08 PM:
 
Okey Dokey, Norm.

Just keep out of my areas, eh?

I'd like to see a pic of that pod, also.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on April 27, 2005, 03:06 PM:
 
Let me look when I get home tonight and see if I have any pic's with the pod in them I know I got some video clips of us hunting off of it but dont know if I took any pic's...If I dont I will take a few!

Brent

[ April 27, 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: keekee ]
 

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Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 27, 2005, 06:12 PM:
 
your areas?? you mean over those dead cows laying out by the pecan trees??

I would not personally use a tree stand, It is just as an option.. I have a ladder for here in the creosote bushes... but I carried it to one stand and am not in a hurry to do it again... does it work... you bet...

later
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 27, 2005, 08:10 PM:
 
Leonard,
I know its accurate, at least in my experience. I dont know that the coyotes are any different. But the terrain does definitely give some advantage to funneling the animal to where you want him, if you pay attention to your setup. And the ratio or stands to called coyotes is not as high either.

I aint gonna lie to ya.

As for hardcore, I was talkin about callers. Hell, there are a pile of them that I know or know of personally in a realatively small area down there, and Im sure theres a bunch more I dont know. Ive lived here my whole life, so far, and I know theres not that many callers. And even less that have ever actually killed a coyote.

Baldknobber,
I live about 10 miles north of Lake of the Ozarks. Maybe this fall we can see about doing that. If I ever get caught up enough to go huntin that is. Seems to be a bigger problem all the time.

Norm,
I see nothing, hear nothing or say nothing.

Andy

[ April 27, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2005, 10:16 PM:
 
Andy, I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were not being truthful. Maybe my words were more in the vein of absolutes; for every rule, there is an exception. The more I'm around this Internet stuff, the more I realize that certain words are going to be challenged, and I didn't mean by myself, especially. But, there is always somebody out there, that has seen something that you just said never happens; that kind of deal.

I can always think of a situation, (a personal situation) where a rule, relating to animal behavior, or setting up a stand was broken, but that does not mean that the rule is/was invalid. It is human nature to speak in generalities.

Especially here in western conditions. We often cold call a stand, and don't have the time to hike to one side or another, to take advantage of some feature. What I try to do is be aware of all the negatives, and deal with them, imperfectly, but as best I can.

I think it is a mistake to try to set up a stand like a director on a movie set: lights, camera, action! Whatever position I find myself in, I try to use it with minimal invasiveness. I would not (normally) track my scent across a meadow to take advantage of natural funnel type features. As in golf, I need to play it as it lays; make the best of it.

Of course, I have unlimited land available. In most cases, I never call the same place twice; ever. If I had a specific set up that I called on a regular basis, I would (of course) learn the best way to handle it. Practice does tend to make perfect.

Are we on the same page?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 28, 2005, 05:30 AM:
 
Absolultely. I was more jackin with ya anyway on the untruthful thing.

From what I have seen in the west, it is very different. The terrain can make a difference, but just finding a clearing large enough to see a bit through the mesquite can be good enough. Washes and draws seem to work pretty well, but not an absolute by any means. About the time I got to thinking that, Norm would take off across a pancake flat and find a clearing and call a pair. Go figger. As for cold calling, I think thats all we did. Unless Norm was seeing stuff he was holding back on. Heck, we got excited if we saw some tracks, especially cat, on the way to the stand.

Yeah, we are on the same page. I think I saw where someone was talking about calling coyotes across open fields, maybe in Iowa? Im sure he does have success at that. I havent. Actually it sounded very interesting. I really havent tried it too much. I have always tried to give them a travel corridor of cover. I have called coyotes out of cover, maybe 40 yards or so into the open, once they get to the sound, but only a couple of times that I can remember calling one across any distance of open terrain. Maybe something I outta try? I like to have that cover for them to travel, and like I said before, sure makes it easier for me to put em where I want em for the shot. Im sure someone else may see the same country Im in and see a different way to hunt it.

I do think you have to set the stage a little more around here than out west. Mainly because of roads and houses. You cant just make a stand, drive a mile and make another. Private property, no tresspassing, roads at least every mile, houses, barns, ect.... make that impossible. You gotta get to know LOTS of farmers to gain access. Then work with what you got to find possible stand locations and then, the wind will dictate alot of times it seems, which ones you go to on a given day.

Thats just my experience.

Andy

[ April 28, 2005, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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