This is topic How many do you not see? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on August 23, 2005, 07:48 PM:
How many critters do you think you call that you do not see?
My brother and I did not see this one because we had been out most of the night and the early morning sun was calling the Sandman.
That's me on the left practicing the art of sleeping while sitting up. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ August 23, 2005, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on August 23, 2005, 08:07 PM:
Gerald. I had a camera man that would fall asleep in the first two minutes. Don't guess he had a lot of faith in my calling. He started snoring one morning. I fired off a shot and hollered " I just killed a Mt Lion at 30 yards and you slept through it". He just new he was going to get fired. When I said it was a joke. He told the producer he would not hunt with me again. I don't have much use for a man with no since of humor.
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on August 24, 2005, 07:19 AM:
Late January, 4" snow on the ground. Wind Norwester ripping [upper 20's mph].
Wind temp -20's below zero. Two winters ago[or 1, can't recall now]. I spotted 2 coyotes, a little over 1/2 mile away.
They were hunkered down in between picked corn rows. I stalked in, eyes freezing shut. I got to within 200yrds of the closest one. Scanned the area good. Decided to pop, the closer of the two.
They were both [balled-up & buried in the drifts]Bang! Gut shot, he's spinning/pronking & running. Right then 5-more coyotes popped up out of a 100' radious of this pair.
I fixed on the hit one. Bang! down he go's. He brakes out into a slow run, >250yrds now. Bang, bang, bang. Couldn't reconnect, he got away.
Those other 5, seemed to just pop up from spider holes. No doubts, I've never seen some.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 24, 2005, 08:57 AM:
How many don't we see?
The answer would fill several volumes.
In heavy cover, they can be close enough to throw rocks at them, but we have no idea they are present.
In monotonous cover, endless identical scrub, the animal can be out there and you can't pick them up unless they are at a gallop. Standing still, they are invisible.
How many come up behind us, even from the most unlikely cover? I called from a gravel pile overlooking some excellent desert cover. When I turned around to leave, the coyote was standing in the middle of a wide open quarry, not a blade of grass for hundreds of yards in any direction.
Example #2. A coyote crossed the road and I stopped and called for ten minutes, watching the direction he was traveling. But when I got up, he was still standing under the bridge observing, as I made the stand.
Sometimes they are present but they will not expose themselves. I have never (completely) understood the reason why a coyote would come to the call and then sit behind a bush for an hour.
At night, I tend to think I can see every animal approaching from considerable distances. But.
Sometimes they pop up from the fenceline right in front of me. I have seen nights when the coyotes will not look at a light as they come in. Not just one or two, they all do it. Way out, or up close, they refuse to look at the light and you never see the eyes. It seems like every coyote in the county is light shy....never figured out why?
Calling from the ground in heavy cover without snow on the ground, you could call coyotes all day and never see a single animal....but you did.
That's why stand selection is so important and that's a very deep subject.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 24, 2005, 07:06 PM:
I hate to know how many I have called in the past and never saw. Most of the country I call is void of trees and really not many ditches to speak of. BUT yet, every year I have numourous coyotes show up close to me that I never saw approaching. I've back tracked a few of them in snow just to see how they did it. Most of them, I should've seen them way before I did.
It doesn't take long for a coyote that is coming pretty quick to cover a lot of ground, so if a guy is scanning the country slowly, it's pretty easy for the coyote to cover a lot of ground from the point where you couldn't see it to the point where it's about in your lap!!
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 24, 2005, 08:10 PM:
What TR said is so true, especially when you hunt alone as much as I do. I can't begin to count the times I've crossed fresh tracks on the way back to the truck. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Ehh, Gerald. About that picture ....... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ August 24, 2005, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on August 24, 2005, 08:33 PM:
I get that here in the East all the time! Thick cover is every were here. Sometimes they are not there one min and there the next! Then you set back and think, how did he get there, were did he come from, and why didnt I hear him coming! But makes for real fast action!
When I have snow, I always circle my stands after im done calling. Guys here in the East call alot more coyotes than they think they do!
One of the worse things here is for a coyote to come in to the call, then he see's something or just knows something is not right and goes to leave, they always seem to get right in line with a big tree and run or walk dead away! No shot, or they make one move behind some brush and just drop off the face of the earth! Sometimes I think they have under ground travel holes to get from place to place....lol
Brent
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 24, 2005, 09:11 PM:
How many critters do you think you call that you do not see?
My guess is that it is more than we'd ever care to admit... Thinking back over the last couple of years I can think of several positive indications of animals that were there that i never saw:
Calling on crusted snow and heard a strange pop up wind of me (and behind) from a direction where nothing should have came from or have ever heard me. After floundering around and getting my gimpy self up it was pretty obvious that a coyote had came up some very skimpy cover and walked across that crust until he was within 10 or so feet and got a big whiff. His fright response was violent enough to snap the crust and get my attention. I never saw a thing.
Calling in my "back yard" on fresh snow. No success and walking back to the house. Tracks that followed mine to within 10's of yards of where I was setting. Those tracks having not been there when I made mine. Never saw a thing, looking the wrong direction. More than once...
Calling on the fringe of great habitat, great stand selection where I'd never miss a thing, Leaving there I had to walk through a gate that lead in to a barnyard and "house" yard and a bunch of wide open country that would "never" produce a coyote. Easily three sets of tracks in the dust of coyotes that made it through the gate and milled about before bailing out. Never saw a thing.
All of that out the back door where conditions were right to show me what I've missed. Add to that calling in cover that can conceal beyond belief. What I've missed in front of me is anyone's guess.
Leonard mentioned calling at night - the 300 yard house cat that "disappeared" only to rub up against your leg 10 minutes later is quite the treat. It happens.
I'd guess that I certainly miss a bunch.
Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on August 24, 2005, 11:15 PM:
Went out last January after a fresh snow. Set the E caller in the middle of the trail, buddy down wind, me up the hill a bit. Called for about 20 minutes. Nothing. Went to pick up the caller and head to another spot, and there were tracks that came right up to it, and kept on a going.
Neither of us said a word. We just went down the trail knowing we had just be had bad. Real bad.
Probably the only coyote in New Hampshire too. Darn.
[ August 24, 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
Posted by LionHo (Member # 233) on August 28, 2005, 11:39 AM:
Little late to the party on this one, I am, but this here's a subject with which I have a fair amount of intimate experience. Short answer: still too damn many.
Gerald, since you're asking 'critters', I take it you mean not just coyotes? Most of the 'yotes around here are virgins and come hard and fast, unless I've been the one to previously educate them. That said, have seen a few suddenly materialize not but twenty or thirty feet out. Have also been hiking to and from and had one explode from under my feet like a fawn, out of weeds it would seem impossible to have hidden in. But still, when it comes to sneaky, I find the dogs just don't hold a candle to cats.
I'd venture that for every bobcat I call and see, there are probably ten that sneak in and sneak out. I've had them walk within six feet of me before I noticed them on a couple of occasions. Numerous times I've seen plainly a hundred yards out, but using every available scrap of cover it will then stalk within 20 feet or so. Me never to see it again, my only clues being chattering chipmunks or nervous quail pweets.
(Obliged to mention I'm calling to the camera, need to call them within 30 feet or so to get em big enough in the frame, and select my stands accordingly. YMMV.)
As for mountain lions, I've been serious about them since the late 80's, almost as long I've been chasing bobcats, and have more than a few ML right in my backyard. Hey, call me Krusty, but I still have yet to see a called mountain lion. Heard some, the jays have tipped me to several, I've confirmed fresh tracks in and out from half a dozen.
One fine February day during an unusually dry period some years ago, I'm walking up an abandoned jeep trail through thick chapparel on a local ridgetop where there's lots of gray fox to be called, typically nothing much else. Hear a little growl off to the left, maybe 20 feet into the dense stuff. Hmmm... woke a fox from a nap, I sez to myself. Continue 100 yds further on, set up where I had a view back down the trail and made a stand with a handcall, strike out and after 30 minutes or so walk back out. Big mountain lion print in the dust over my boot prints, little mountain lion tracks right alongside. Never got a whiff that they were there.
Ivan J. Eberle AKA LionHo
http://Pupfish.mystarband.net
[ August 28, 2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: LionHo ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 28, 2005, 12:36 PM:
During certain times of the year and in certain areas it is obvious that more coyotes will come in and check us out without exposing themselves than those that do. I've experienced this in several states.
The kicker, however, are the revealing results of modern technology. The animated graphics from the GPS studies show this to be true and Randy Merta from Indiana has some fascinating stories to tell about calling with his Police departments portable FLIR unit. Randy tells me that the unit is sensitive enough to display the recognizable form of a field mouse in excess of fifty yards. It has shown the images of three coyotes at 400 yards, through heavy brush, well enough to determine that two were standing, one was sitting and one was lying down. Randy said that he uses it at night in conjunction with standard light techniques. The FLIR will pick up large numbers of coyotes approaching and then hanging back in the brush far enough out that the lights would not pick up their eyes. Randy said that often times many more coyotes are picked up by FLIR than the number that they actually see. I'm going to video a hunt with Randy and the FLIR this winter.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 29, 2005, 07:33 AM:
Now there's a video I'd love to have. We work with IR sensors in some of the labs here. I've often wondered what a FLIR would tell me about my calling.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 29, 2005, 09:45 AM:
NASA,
The Border Patrol has several FLIR cameras down here. One is mounted on a telescoping pole in the back of a pick up. I talked to the driver one night and he said he can ID a coyote at close to two miles with it.
While it is mostly used to direct Agents into finding groups of migrants hiding under the brush, it is also used to help keep the Agents safe.
He said the area between Yuma and San Diego has a high number of Mountain lions, who have lost most of their fear of humans. He said it is not uncommon at all to use a FLIR camera in that area, and find a Mountain lion is stalking the Agents. So far, they have never been attacked, but the big cats would follow an Agent though the brush while walking in the dark.
Getting the radio call at 2AM that there was a Mountain lion crouching in the brush 50 yards behind me would certainly increase the job's pucker factor.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on August 29, 2005, 10:49 AM:
Tim, I can believe that. I hunted that area a few times years ago, took a few bobcats and grays out of it and seen lion tracks. Not to many people hunt the place because it is so close to the border, scared of dope people or coyotes I guess.
I have a question about FLIR. If it works so good, how are all these migrants making it across the border? They own the southwest nowadays. Mexico took over without ever firing a shot......Viva Pancho Villa.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 29, 2005, 10:54 AM:
I can see a very distinct advantage in that! I'm not yet sure what, if any, restrictions there are to using IR devices when hunting. But that long tail scenario you described really has me thinking.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 29, 2005, 11:05 AM:
Those big high definition cameras on the telescoping poles cost upwards of $50,000 They make a smaller version that I see a lot of around here. It's just a black camera on top of the vehicle. The use those along the highway to look in your vehicle as you drive past and look for high number of occupants or people crouched down below the window levels. I've heard those only cost $18,000 but that's still a little more than I'd want to spend on a coyote hunting tool.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 29, 2005, 11:06 AM:
I think it (flir) is vastly overrated, as far as hunting predators, (any predator) at night.
Good hunting. LB
edit: sure see a lot of those things mounted on sissor lifts, driving certain places.
[ August 29, 2005, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 29, 2005, 11:32 AM:
Onecoyote, they don't need to fire a shot. They're doing it by sheer numbers.
The border with Mexico is 1,945 miles long. Only 60 miles of it are actually guarded! Illegals are now inhabiting 120,000 sq. miles of U.S. soil along the border. That's why we have "checkpoints" 60 miles north of the border. This is the second border that has had to be established.
There is no question this is an invasion. The Mexicans call themselves "Reconquistas", the re-conquerors. That is how they see themselves. Their slogan is "Cuidadania". That means citizenship, and that is their plan. Get in, get established, take over. And our beloved "New World Order" liberalites are helping them every step of the way.
Posted by Todd Woodall (Member # 439) on August 29, 2005, 03:04 PM:
Thats the easiest question I have ever heard. I didnt see 24 last year, almost 25 but I caught him leaving. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
That is a good question, and I am sure it would be depressing to know the answer. We have been picking the landscape apart and look up and there is one standing at 10 yards to our right. Many times we hear them walking and turn around to see that "OH CRAP" look. No joke in the video we had that happen. Jeff smooched at me to tell me he sees one coming. I look and cant see it so I turn and look at him to see the direction he is looking. He had 2 coyotes standing 10 yards behind him! Just looking, not running. He was was drawn down in front of him so I glanced out in front to see 3 others charging in. I just let the two go and filmed the other 3. He was shocked to know he was being watched. It was pretty funny.
Todd
[ August 29, 2005, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Todd Woodall ]
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on August 30, 2005, 06:34 AM:
I heard they used one of those IR thingies on Gerald's deer lease and caught him running around in his alltogether. When they took it to the prosecuter they decided to drop the case for lack of evidence.
Just another case of "How many do you not see" I suppose.
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on August 30, 2005, 08:39 AM:
LOL...LOL...LOL...lol...lol....l.o......
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