The New Huntmastersbbs!: Do you use a coverscent?

This is topic Do you use a coverscent? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000582

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 06:38 AM:

I would like to address the issue of the use of scents. There are what I consider to be “cover” scents, “confidence” scents and “attractant” scents. You may want to argue with me the semantics of those words but the usefulness of a scent in either category is really what I have in mind.

Cover scents are what I consider to be an odor strong enough to actually block the approaching animal’s ability to smell any other odor. Scents that fall into that category would be Skunk, meat feed Red Fox urine or any other scent that has the molecular structure close to them.

Confidence scents are what I consider a smell that adds one more element of believability to all of the sensory signals that an animal is monitoring as it approaches. Urines and possibly blood are the main scents that fall into that category.

Attractant scents are those that make the approaching animal come in because it is such an enticement they possibly ignore or discount the presence of other odors.

Before any of you start getting bent out of shape over the appearance that I am being too absolute with these statements, I have to say that there are smells that probably fall into all of these categories to one degree or another.

Let’s talk about Cover Scents first. Does any scent, to some degree, block an animal’s ability to smell ? I tend to lean towards yes on this question for these reasons.

1. I have been in too many situations where an animal has been in an obvious position to smell me and react accordingly (flee) when using proper amounts of skunk odor and they don’t. My perception of what occurred on many calling stands leads me to logically believe that it has blocked their ability to smell me.
2. Tex Isbell has told me so. That deserves explanation so you don’t think I am a sheeple. Tex was a PhD chemist that turned down an offer to be the Dean of the School of Chemistry at Texas A&M to go into the business of selling and producing synthetic skunk musk (Skunk Screen). In my association with Tex I have been exposed to his research in a way, that is hard to fully explain here, why I have developed the confidence in his character, honesty and ultimately his word.
3. Have you ever eaten anything that changed your ability to fully experience the accurate taste of something else you chased it with? I have and believe logically that the same effect can occur with odors. This is just a food for thought kind of suggestion.

We have used skunk odor as a cover scent since the earliest days of the company. It was available only as the real thing until Tex came out with his product in the late 70’s. I have personally used it on a number of different species in different parts of the country successfully and sometimes not so successfully. It has worked well enough for me that I generally believe that it serves a good purpose most of the time and is worth the effort to use it if I am serious about getting animals close.

Does it completely cover the human odor? You might think it odd that I would pose that question in light of the statements I have already made about it. I have had some rather rousing point counterpoint conversations with Tex and others about that very thing. The argument that many will bring up to me is that blood hounds or tracking dogs can get a good blast of skunk and keep on tracking.

I used to believe that you could cover the human scent completely but have taken pause to wonder if that is the really the case. I think the answer is a conditional one. If enough of a particular scent is available I think it can “cover” but is that the case in most uses of any smell promoted as a “cover” scent on a typical calling stand?

I had an interesting conversation with a guy from Pa a while back that espoused a theory that he believed what was occurring on most stands, where a cover scent was used, was that the human odor was diminished to the point that the approaching animal did not feel "threatened" by the smell. I thought a lot about that and it made a great deal of sense to me.

I have been in a number of situations where animals acknowledged my presence when they smelled me by simply raising their heads and looking my direction only to casually continue what they were doing. Those times happened to be when I was viewing them from great distances. They did not feel threatened by me being 400 yards away. I have also been in situations where a coyote or deer almost “turned inside out” trying to get away because they hit the downwind of me only 30 feet away. They definitely seemed to feel threatened.

Could it be that some scents do a better job than others at making the approaching animal not feel threatened?

Using the phrase in their advertisng, “eliminates” the human odor is one that may not be totally accurate in my mind. I simply have a hard time believing that most soaps and washes can eliminate “totally” the human odor. That position on my part led me to have a clause put in my contract with HS that stated that my name would only be used to endorse or promote items in their line that “we both mutually agreed upon”.

That theory has made me much more comfortable with promoting the array of HS scent“elimination” products in my seminars but I carefully explain my position using the words diminish and reduce rather than the absoluteness of the word eliminate. That is one issue where you could argue semantics all day.

I think I will stop at this point and let some of you guys give your opinions about “Cover scents”. I will add some more thoughts about Confidence and Attractant scents later in the thread.

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on September 11, 2005, 07:30 AM:

I must disagree. Coyotes smell in parts per trillion. Humans in parts per hundred. I dont believe there is a such thing as a total cover up scent that will mask the human odor. I believe they can smell and separate any and every odor they smell with one sniff.
Now they may not know what that odor is, but they can still smell it.
I do believe your friend from PA in that coyotes smell humans all the time, and they can tell how long ago a human was at a particular location by the AMOUNT of scent left by that human.
Being a trapper most of my life, has shown me that the shorter time i can spend making a coyote set, the quicker I will catch the next coyote coming down the road. I have seen the same things when setting snares in trails. If you set your snare and then turn around and walk back the way you came, you will get many refusals by coyotes coming down that trail. They smell that you paused for a period of time at that spot, and are leary and will back out or go around. But if you set the snare and then continue on down the trail, you will get almost no refusals because they smelled that you paused, but continued on.
Scent is a very complicated thing. Also the ability of the canid or canine to smell it. Humidity, driness, wetness, etc have a huge effect on how MUCH they ar smelling. Why is ist a coon hound can smell where a coon crossed the road 5 hours ago, and still tell if the coon was going right to left or left to right?
The same with lion hounds. Why is it that a dog can not smell a lion track in dirt that is only couple hours old, yet if that same lion steps on a rock, the dog can smell it then?
I bring these examples up to show that it is more complicated than we humans believe.
The Good Book says that God put the fear of man in all animals.
That is why we are the stinkingest critters on the earth.
I have found that I can be more successful by taking a bath in baking soda so that the soda slows the rate that bateria growth and thereby keeps my scent very low.
The Native Americans knew this too and was one of the reason they would refrain from eating meat a few days before going on a hunt and also would use their sweat lodges to get the bad odor out of their pores.
The best thing i can say is if skink gives you more confidence on your stands, then use it.
Not for me though as I KNOW he can still smell me along with that skunk.
Just my 3 cents(adjusted for inflation)
Steve

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on September 11, 2005, 07:35 AM:

A repost.

Skunk sent. A pointer will point a Skunk with all the intensity of a 20 bird covey. It is real blast to have two dogs on point. Then walk in kicking the brush full of excitement anticipating that explosion, only to be greeted by a stream of Skunk pee. Many times I have seen dogs with Skunk pee dripping off there faces point a covey of Quail minutes later. I have no faith in Skunk sent fooling a canine's nose. Besides the smell of Skunk spray alerts other animals that there has been a disturbance. The best use I have for Skunk piss. Is to put it in a hypodermic needle, and squirt it through the weather striping into cars that belong to people who have severely pissed me off.

[ September 11, 2005, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: varmit hunter ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on September 11, 2005, 07:49 AM:

I don't use any kind of scent while calling predators. Instead, I go the cheap route, and do my best to keep the wind in my favor. If the approaching predator wants to get where it can smell me, then how I set up will force that predator to expose itself for a shot well before smelling me. This, however, is not fool proof as there are times and places that this can't be done. At these times and places, I do the best I can.
I do try to minimize my odor by doing or avoiding such things as gassing up the rig the day I am heading out to go calling. I do also walk through fresh cow pies when givin the chance. But for me, after seeing what a bird dog can do, I just don't beleive that I can fool the nose of a coyote. I've had times when coyotes have approached from what I felt was down wind, yet they got plenty close before acknowledging that they smelt trouble, if they acknowledged it at all. But yet, I've seen them turn at 150 yards before, when I felt they were down wind. It seems to me that some coyotes play the wind, or pay closer attention to, or just recognize human odor as "danger" quicker than others do.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 11, 2005, 09:17 AM:

I don't belive that the coyote's nose can be fooled. I do, however, belive that the coyote's nose can be confused for a few seconds. Those few seconds can sometimes make a difference.
The best cover scent that I've found is to skin the first coyote of the season, wet the fur with well or creek water and wring it into a bucket. Add bladder urine, and filter into a spray bottle.
Is it worth the trouble?....Your choice. I'm using Marlboro 100's for cover scent & have shot downwind coyotes. Go figure.

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 11, 2005, 09:31 AM:

Put me down as another who doesn't believe in cover scents.

I just don't think it is possible to hide your scent from most any type of canine.

But just because an animal has an ability, I don't think that he always uses it. Kind of like a kid in school, he may be capable of bringing home straight A's but he doesn't use his abilities all of the time.

I think that just because a coyote can smell me, doesn't mean that he will smell me. If I can get his excitement level up high enough, I think that he will forgo other senses in his rush to get there first.

“Confidence” scents ( Such as Leonard's magic Mist ) are something that I would like to play a little more with. I can definitely see them being a benefit when hunting in thick brushy areas, or for photography.

"Attractant scents" I don't feel have any place on my calling stand. Any place that an Attractant scent is going to go, it is going to be followed by my scent. And they may take too long to reach an animals nose for me to sit on a stand. The only two animals that I Hunt, that I would sit on a stand long enough for an Attractant scent to be effective are for Mountain lions, who I don't think use their nose enough for an Attractant scent to be useful, and Black bears, and we aren't allowed to use any type of Attractants for them.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2005, 10:07 AM:

Well, if this is the so called; "cover scent" thread, you can put me down as a doubter, for all the above3 mentioned reasons.

Then, there is my favorite bitch on this subject: "scent lock suits". Has no place in predator hunting that I can see? If you know which way the wind is blowing, how on earth do you expect to "mask" human scent? Fairy tale, as far as I'm concerned.

But, not only a PA friend of Gerald, but Scott Huber once mentioned, on one of the boards, maybe here(?) that proximity and immediacy have a lot to do with a coyote's reaction.

I also remember something that Vic Carlson said a long time back that shine couldn't be the big fear factor that we think it is, for coyotes. They see reflections every day, it's part of the environment. I have no trouble believing that theory, unless it is coupled with movement.

So is human scent part of the environment, as is gasoline and exhaust fumes, etc. I am pretty good on human poop, depending on proximity; but out in the woods, it all smells like horseshit, to me. The closer I am, the more I wrinkle my nose.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 10:20 AM:

Good stuff guys, let me address several things from your input.

Steve, I am not sure what you were disagreeing with. Was it the concept of "cover" scent in general or just skunk specifically. I started my post out more absolute than I feel comfortable with for a specific reason and then opened the door to the possiblity that maybe nothing is a purely 100% "cover" scent. I simply have seen too many situations where it was used successfully in a very benefitial way, to then indicate to someone that they do not need it or will never benefit from it. Those are not your words but mine only to support my position. I respect your and others experience as trappers immensly but feel pretty strongly that a canine's nose can be altered or confused enough that it makes a fatal mistake.

"I have no faith in Skunk sent fooling a canine's nose. Besides the smell of Skunk spray alerts other animals that there has been a disturbance."

Skunks spray for more than just defensive measures Varmit Hunter. I was shocked to find out that they will do that in their mating ritual also. It is a long story but I have fist hand experience with that happening under a trailer I was sleeping in not once but twice in the same night. I have a hard time believing that a deer or coyote runs every time it smells that odor. I don't want to believe that a Buck would decide not to pursue a great piece of Doe just because some skunk got his first. [Wink]

I have shot a number of coyotes that reeked of skunk. When I brought that up to a biologist friend of mine he stated that skunks are part of the coyotes diet. Why would skunk odor alarm a coyote? I do not think it does, and it may even serve as an attractant. Do deer run away from the simple smell of skunk. No and I have hundreds of feet of film to back that perception up. Dad and Bob Ramsey were the two of the pioneers of Whitetail Rattling and they used it religiously with great results.

Trnco, I do many of the same things just as a secondary effort to minimize my odor. Truth be known I do not carry skunk with me when I know the terrain well enough to set up to use elevation and wind to my advantage. I honestly believe that most people don't use it because it was quite a hassle to store and transport in pure form in the early days. Then you have to take the time to put it out, which creates more movement and delays the start of your stand. Tex's product eliminated some of those considerations but still requires additional effort on a stand. I can make that claim about peoples laziness because I am one of those that fall into that category. [Smile]

KoKopelli, I am with you.

Tim, you are jumping the gun on me with the attractant talk. I will say though that you, Ed Sceery and a lot of western guys hunt conditions where you can get by without it much easier than those who have to try and call the coyotes in much closer proxiemity. Who would need to use a cover scent when they are hunting with the wind as Ed does and makes long shots? Those poor souls in the east have to take steps to deal with odor or they are not seeing 2\3rds of the coyotes they may call.

Let me throw out the concept of Bow Hunting and those of you who do that, may be able to bring a different perspective to this. It is my general experience in talking to Bowhunters from all over the country that they, of all hunters, are the most concerned with their odor. Tex's product Skunk Screen was extrememly well used by that group to the point that when it started becoming limited and it's availablity and or possibly not at all. They would buy it by the case. That is one style of hunting that pretty much demands some kind of effort to reduce or "eliminate" the human odor and many of them will profess a belief that Skunk essence does help accomplish that goal.

What say you........

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 10:24 AM:

Hey Leonard I have some comments about shine also but I want to deal with that on another thread. Try and keep this conversation on smell or I will have you banned from this board...wait a minute...this is your board isn't it.....never mind.

Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on September 11, 2005, 11:09 AM:

When coyotes smell people they leave virtually every time. On occasion like everyone else here I have had a coyote come in from what seams directly down wind. Those events really stand out in my memory because of how rare it happens. Maybe the wind currents are lifting my scent or blowing it off just enough? Don’t know! I usually envision the coyote’s family tree looking something like a telephone pole when ever it happens and figure it is Darwin at work again.

I don’t use any kind of scent cover, masking scent or sent eliminator. I think scents can help though providing the scent cone you lay down is wider than the scent cone your body is making. If a coyote smells skunk or fox piss or whet ever BEFORE he smells a human odder he might check up just long enough to get a shot but then again he may just keep on running and bug out regardless of what he smells.

Good hunting.

Q,

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2005, 11:18 AM:

Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to "hijack" your thread!

The point is that if you mix enough "cover scent" with your human odor, then perhaps it (human odor) becomes analyzed by Mr Coyote as "distant" and nonthreatening? These things are possible, but I wouldn't depend on the results being favorable.

My general opinion is that the term, "cover scent" is a concept that means different things to different people. The word, itself is descriptive and defining all at the same time. And, that's the problem. "Cover scent" covers your scent, right? Wish it were that easy, but this is what some people hang their hat on and others hold strongly opposite opinion without considering the delicate shadings of gray.

Magic mist doesn't attempt to cover anything. But, it is an odor that a coyote will not ignore, at least for a few precious seconds, in which you can get off a decent shot. That's all I claim, and all it is good for, one decent shot at a stationary animal downwind....who thinks he is safe, for the moment. Beyond that, if he hangs around for longer, that is a bonus that I would certainly not preach.

All I am saying is that cover scent is a concept that is difficult to define, and the results are just as difficult to document. One final word from me, before I step down from the soap box....IT CAN'T HURT.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 11:42 AM:

"All I am saying is that cover scent is a concept that is difficult to define, and the results are just as difficult to document. One final word from me, before I step down from the soap box....IT CAN'T HURT."

Spot on Leonard in my opinion.

I have been in several situations where I had the opportunity to glass coyotes at a distance I felt they would hit my downwind and have the ability to smell me and when they did, they simply looked up from their nosing around and stood looking in my direction for a few moments and went back to their business. Those moments are what helped me to believe the theory of not feeling threatened enough to leave. Is it plausible to believe that a combination of scents placed at your calling stand create the same effect? Could that be why they occassionally come from downwind without a negative reaction?

OK Leonard .... so I have participated in the "hijacking" of a couple of Tim's threads. If I apologize for that would you allow this decent conversation to go on without the Frat Boys jumping in? [Wink]

I have a few more comments about smells that would benefit you that I will save for later if the talk about Coverscents continues. If it seems to slow to a crawl I will change the subject to attractants or confidence smells.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 11, 2005, 12:02 PM:

Put me under the group of doubters, as well. I've run hounds and my best ol' hound had this nasty affinity for skunks to the extent that he just had to roll one up every damned night we hunted before he'd settle into the business at hand. It took me three years to break him of it, but by God, when he got his fix, it never seemed to negatively affect his ability to strike an old track. he was one of those high falootin' English dogs and all my diehard Walker fanatic buddies just hated him for that cold nose of his - skunked up or not. Just reinforces to me that the canine nose/ brain are inherently capable of separating oders, no matter how slight they might be.

As far as "cover scents" go, I'm with Leonard in that they're used by the majority of folks in a manner consistent with how the name implies, and most guys are just convinced that they completely negate the canine's ability to smell anything else. Have you ever unloaded a semi-truck load of onions to find the pot stashed in the middle because a drug dog allerted on the trailer? I have. Amazing thing to see.

I don't so much believe that skunk musk alerts a coyote to danger so much as it piques their curiosity about where and why that skunk got his butt whooped. Curiosity, just like pissing is.

I've come to using pee a little differently than I guess the old dogs do. I use it to start out a lot of stands and will try to establish a new scent plume downwind of me, as well as spray it around me. Cheap way to set up a stand and blend with my stink. When Rich and Leonard first told me about it several years ago, I skoffed like a lot of people do. But, you only have to see about ten coyotes stand straight downwind snorting with their noses straight up to begin to doubt your doubts. And having one come up from downwind and stand within ten feet of you for several minutes on a hot night, and still not alert to you even though you know for a fact that he can smell you, kinda makes you go, "Holy crap!"

Personally, I think the skunk musk works just as the coyote pee does, except not as well, and the coyote pee is a lot safer to handle and forgiving if you spill a little on the truck seat. I'm an old trapper, too, and the slight smell of coyote pee or skunk mmusk ranks right up there with my dearly departed granbdpa's pipe tobacco as far as conjuring up fond memories and reminiscances. I wouldn't want to take a bath in neither, but I find neither especially offensive, and both get my attention.

As far as bowhunting goes, I've tried to get at least a dozen scent user bowhunters to try a variant of the misting, as opposed to hanging out scent wafers and the like. They, too, are non-believers. When will they learn?

Posted by Todd Woodall (Member # 439) on September 11, 2005, 12:16 PM:

Come on guys trim the fat off of it. It takes you a day to get caught up around here anymore. [Big Grin]

To keep it short, [Wink]

I feel that scents are all but useless in predator hunting. If they get down wind they are going to smell you as well as whatever aweful smell you have around you. I agree they smell ppb possibly ppt and you just cant compete with that. If you want to use them it wont hurt anything, but it wont help either. Nuff said.

This is a subject that will always get a lot of debate. Fact is, nobody can PROVE anyone else wrong.

See that wasnt so hard now was it. [Wink]

Todd

[ September 11, 2005, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Todd Woodall ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2005, 01:14 PM:

Well, you don't have to believe, Todd. I could copy your statement and have it laminated for my wallet, on the off chance that you see the light, some day, and need to eat your words. I noticed that you wrote that you did some spraying for coyotes down wind? That shows me that you aren't using it properly, if I understand you correctly? If not, I apoligize, but here's the explain, in any case.

What you should be doing is misting WAY BEFORE an animal shows up downwind. Expecting him to hang around until you get that spray bottle cranked up is not reasonable.

Rather than pumping the spray bottle, this is the only opportunity you have to shoot him before he disappears, AND he already has enough mist in his nose, so that is definitely a waste of time....at this point. WHEN he is headed downwind, the shooter needs to be on him for the one time he turns and faces you motionlessly, for only a brief few seconds.

This should be all the time you need to kill a coyote that has all but been lost. In fact, I think it can be said, for the most part, that your stand has failed, when the coyote gets downwind. Misting provided you with the opportunity to turn defeat into victory, but you have to know how to use it and not have unrealistic expectations.

Photography is, (especially at night) a very difficult thing, a lot of coordinating with shooter, light man and camera operator. I can see where misting might not provide much of an advantage. It all happens too quickly, if you don't know what to expect, and are not ready for it. If you take the camera out of the equation, the shooter has plenty of time to center the crosshairs and make an easy shot. That's it, that's all it will do for you.

The fact is, misting works, as your last chance at an animal. I don't consider it to be a matter of debate. For those that choose not to believe, or understand how it works or how to use it, you have my blessings. You can lead a horse.....blah blah blah. [Smile]

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 11, 2005, 01:34 PM:

Yeah! What Leonard said!! I wrote that all down, got it published, and suffered being called a misbred, hare-lipped idiot for doing do. Yet, still, they never listen. They never do!

[Cool]

Just funnin' ya.

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 11, 2005, 02:00 PM:

Cover scent..... No

But I am a little fanatical about as little scent as possible. I use Dead Down Wind products, I use either thier unscented laundry soap or another brand. Unscented deodorant. No cologne, ever, I hate the stuff, and I hate my big game hunters wearing it, no smelly products for me ever. I have gotten so used to no perfume scents in my laundry and stuff that I wash even my non hunting clothes in unscented detergent. Does it make a difference? I don't know, but I think it may help a little.

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on September 11, 2005, 02:07 PM:

For the record. Any of my comments about scents do not pertain to Leonard's "Magic Mist". This concoction is like one of DAA's videos, in a class by itself.

For all the trouble it has got me into, Like the time I had spray bottle in a sack on the back of my four wheeler. My Wife climbed on behind me and cracked the bottle. It was slowly dripping on the muffler. Every time we slowed down we were engulfed in faunk. I made the mistake of turning around and looking at her. She interpreted this look as if I thought she was the source of the smell. My ears still ring from that whop upside the head. I still think it is worth the side effects for that short moment of confusion it causes the Coyote. Like Leonard said. The spraying needs to be over before the party starts.

Rich has supplied me with enough raw video footage of Coyotes twisting there nostrils trying to process what there nose is telling there brain to convince me it is worth bodily harm.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2005, 02:18 PM:

It is a little curious. Ever since I have been on the Internet, telling people a few things about how we hunt critters, I have had so many people telling me it doesn't work.

You would think I was suggesting a rotating red and blue light with siren?

The fact is, everybody out here uses mist for night hunting. It's one of those 3rd gen. things, apparently?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 02:36 PM:

I haven't got long for this one but I do have some comments to make in light of some of these posts but I will tease you with my response to Todd on another thread dealing with the same subject. Seems I am chasing him around the board.

I am surprised that you would take such an adament stance on the subject Todd. I figure you are not old enough to have experienced so much in life that you would slam the door to the possibility that you just may not have learned all there is to learn. I am still learning at 51 and try very hard not to use absolutes like "never", "can't", "always", "no way" and others. Ocassionally one slips through and I keep being proven wrong on things I thought I knew all there was to know.

Are you telling me that every coyote that I have shot downwind of myself which was standing with his nose in the wind trying to figure things out was choosing to die rather than bolt and run. I for one have not been going out there using my skunk scent just to feel good about using my skunk scent. I am going out there and killing coyotes and feeling good because I think it works for me.

I hope that adamant stance is not your effort to earn the title of "Pampass knows it all" so you will think you fit in better here. [Wink]

By the way I still want to buy one of your videos even though you drove me to get up on my soap box. [Smile]

By the way, the signature line is one that I chose to rotate in a week or so ago. I did not know it would become relavant so quickly. [Big Grin]

Posted by Todd Woodall (Member # 439) on September 11, 2005, 03:40 PM:

Gerald, I too feel that I learn something new all the time, and I in no way feel that I know it all or ever will. What I do know is that this aint rocket science, and anyone who calls on a regular basis can pick up on things pretty quick. If you know how to pick a setup with the wind, terrain, cover, and probable area of responses all in mind you pretty much have it whiped. We set up so we will have few coyotes get to our wind, and if they get there before you can shoot em it was a bad setup. I personally worry alot more about setting up than what will happen when an animal gets downwind. We all know what that animal will do when they get there. I just feel that scent has far less impanct on the outcome compared to your set up. Experience means alot and I respect you and many others for your hard work and dedication that helped to make predator hunting what it is today. With that said, I dont think it takes 30 years for someone to be knowledgable about coyote hunting. If it does then someone has had there head up there rear most of the time. I just hope my head doesnt stink as bad as others.

I will step off the washing machine now.

Todd

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 11, 2005, 03:53 PM:

I didn't know if i should(but in)this topic or not.Most all of you got more experience with scent than i do.(other than maybe trapping)There is one thing i think we all can agree on,you can dilute any scent and the more we dilute a smell with another,the harder the original smell would be to pick up.For this reason it would be hard to convince me that it does not work to an extent.I don't always use scent at all my stands so i'm no authority on it.This seems to be a very disagreable discussion.

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 11, 2005, 04:10 PM:

Leonard, I have never openly voiced an opinion that they don't work, just answered the question of whether or not I use them.
I know that you are obviously and experienced caller and know what works and what doesn't for you, as we all do. But I look at a lot of stuff that other callers do as almost superstition. If I were to say that I killed hundreds of coyotes because I twirled my lucky rabbits foot three times around my head before every stand, does that mean everyone should go get a lucky rabbits foot and do what I do? Or does it mean that I'm just a pretty good caller who is a little superstitious? I think misting may work in the thicks of Arizona, where for example Higgy is, it may offer more shot opportunities at night, I really don't know because I hunt niether the night or Arizona-So Cal etc...
I don't think it would really benifit me personally becasue of where I call. I am in open enough country to try to block my downwind if possible, and if there is a coyote heading for downwind and he is within several hundred yards there is a high probability that I can see him and get him shot before he reaches the point of smelling me. If I had to call different terrain, I would probably have to alter my style drastically. I would be packing ladders, misting, and hunting at night.

Oh, and there are two words I don't use when talking about coyotes...

They are NEVER and ALWAYS

[ September 11, 2005, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 11, 2005, 04:48 PM:

No cover scents for me either. Maybe their use would help me pick-up an occasional extra coyote, but I would prefer to be on down the road trying to find another dumb one.
As I understand it from this thread, most of the reason for using them is to get the coyote to stop for a shot. Can't you guys hit one on the run? LOL

As far as deer...I don't believe they have the nose a coyote does.

As far as deer hunters... What would they know anyway. Sit in a stand for four hours on opening day, then proceed to tour the country in their mobile tree stands for the rest of the season. At least that is the way it is here.

Almost every coyote that gets down wind from me leaves in a hurry. My job is see him and kill him before he gets there.

BTW Excellent post Todd.

Randy

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on September 11, 2005, 05:43 PM:

Question, for those of you that do "mist", how often do you "mist" and how long do you suppose it takes for a spirt of "mist" to dissapate? And, in stead of misting, wouldn't having an open bottle of your potion sitting beside you be just as effective, after all, it wouldn't dissapate?

Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on September 11, 2005, 06:28 PM:

Hmmm.
To answer Cal...
They Always stop. They Always do.

Todd touched on something without knowing it. The head is where most of the human stink comes from so mesh hats don't really help.

Gerald took me by surprise because of all the coyotes I have shot, I can't remember a single one that smelled of skunk. The buck scenario of chasing a doe after skunk sex is interesting. If a skunk squirts I don't care what caused the excitement, I'm outta there.

Another reason I don't like skunk scent is because I'm married and I'd much rather sleep inside than out.

Do I actually use scents? Occasionally. It's because I have some laying around and decide to use it for kicks. I bought a bunch of juice awhile back because Leonard and Higgy convinced me that it works "Magic". For some reason I cannot bring myself to throw it away so I ocassionally drag som alog and carefully sprinkle it around unlike some people who attack the spray trigger. Lord help you if you happen to be down wind. Cough, gasp! Spit and light up a Marlboro.

So who do you consider the all time hijacker?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2005, 07:03 PM:

Yeah, how hard can it be?

When I started, you couldn't buy a spotlight, or camo clothing, OR an electronic caller. I made my own spotlight and caller from an automotive 8 track tape player, something a lot of you guys never heard of.

Nobody ever showed me or told me anything about hunting predators and because I'm stupid, it took me almost three years before I killed my first coyote. Of course, I didn't realize that you could not sit around in the middle of the day for five minutes, and not know where to set up or what to look for. I might as well have been hunting Bigfoot, for all the things I did wrong, coupled with the fact that I was actually hunting something else I knew something about, and only tried a hand call when there was a slim chance of success. Also, I didn't know how to call, nobody did. But, that was part of the learning curve. A learning curve that you guys can't even see from where you are today; but a few hunters in eastern states might have some concept of what I mean.

All that is my way of saying that you fellas have it made. It's real easy to do; the whole enchillada is laid out for you and it doesn't take thirty years to get pretty good at it. People have not always been free with information, like it is now. The basics are well understood but they have not always been well understood.

You know something funny? We didn't have cell phones, back then! And my color TV had Vacuum tubes! What a joke!

Good hunting. LB

edit: TRnCO. No, it wouldn't work nearly as well, and don't you think it might have occured to us several decades ago, if it did?

[ September 11, 2005, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Noel Brandon (Member # 697) on September 11, 2005, 07:37 PM:

Do you think that dead coyotes in the bed of the truck provide any cover or attractant scent? Do any of you using scents have any data or recollection of your scents working better later into the night and the coyotes stack up?

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 11, 2005, 07:43 PM:

TR,

Ask Quinton and Danny Gevara that last question. LOL

On several occasions, the aforementioned one in particular, I have demonstarted the benefit of aeresolizing diluted urine by first positioning myself forty to fifty paces upwind of my student(s), holding up the bottle with the top removed ("Can you smell this?" "Hell no." snicker and look at each other like I'M the idiot) then replace the top on the bottle, pump 4-5 rounds of mist into the air and wait for the show. About five seconds later, snicker-snicker turns to cough-wheeze-cough-gag-"Holy shit, what is that crap! Man, where's some water?" -spit- swear-repeat.

The only thing I like better than seeing a downwind coyote's response to the mist is seeing the reaction of a true skeptic when the mist hits his nose.

Wal Mart spray bottle - 0.98

3 ounces of filtered coyote pee mixed with enough water to fill bottle - 0.50

The look on Mr I've-seen-it-all's face when he sucks in a snootful of mist and all the air is torn from his lungs - Priceless

[ September 11, 2005, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on September 11, 2005, 07:51 PM:

OK, so what keeps the smell from disappating before Mr./Mrs. coyote shows up. How often do you have to "mist"? I don't doubt for a mintue that mist will indeed put out more "stink" for a few moments, than an open bottle, but doesn't it dissapate quickly? If not, why not?

Posted by Todd Woodall (Member # 439) on September 11, 2005, 07:52 PM:

I agree Leonard, you guys sure had your work cut out for ya. The internet sure helps to get the word out. There isnt much you cant find anymore. Sure wish I had it when I first started. Would have saved me alot of time and effort. Me and my dad hunted alot growing up. We had a low success rate, partly because all we used were bows. Sure glad we switched to rifles. That will up your success rate in a hurry. [Big Grin]

Todd

Posted by InjunJoe (Member # 658) on September 11, 2005, 08:01 PM:

I bought some Tinks Fox P thinking it would make a coyote come in faster to run off the fox. So far I hav'nt been attacked.

Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on September 11, 2005, 08:12 PM:

Interesting subject, wish I knew more about it.

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on September 11, 2005, 08:19 PM:

Leonard. I feel what you are saying. When we started out it did not matter if you were filthy rich are dirt poor, because there was nothing to be bought. You either thought it up and made it or did with out. We could not pay our dues, because there was no one to pay them to. At least you lived in California which I considered Mecca in the sixties. I waited every month for Jim Doughtry(sp) article to come out in Guns magazine so I could find out what you guys out there were doing. Living down hear in the swamp country it was 20 years before I herd someone besides myself blow a call in front of me. The Fox hound guys cut my tires, and then one night two truck loads of grown Men pulled up and beat the hell out of a 18 year old kid for calling "There Foxes". They left me on the side of that dirt rode. Finally at daylight a guy stopped by and helped me into my car. That Monday morning all of them had a gallon gas can tied to there kennel gate with a note saying "I will be back to night with a match".

Maybe we feel cheated by the fact that today you can purchase a e-caller, a video and a AR-15 on Thursday and be a Coyote killing machine by Saturday. Don't know about you, but I would not take anything for what I went through to learn what I know. Yes we all have opinions. I guess we are so adamant about what we believe because we paid dearly to form those opinions. When we share them maybe some folks don't understand what we paid for what we are giving away. I started 46 years ago with no answers, and here I am today with no answers, only a opinion.

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 11, 2005, 08:21 PM:

Reading about it on the internet only helps, if you can find someone who ACTUALLY IS good at it, where you are.

There's as much mis-information, as there is information, sorting it out isn't easy.

A 1000 piece puzzle is really hard to put together, with 652 pieces and no box top. [Wink]

Krusty

Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on September 11, 2005, 08:39 PM:

Ronnie, it seems to me like there are no answers, only percentages.

What Q said is exactly how I see things concerning scent.

I've had a coyote 10 feet behind me, down wind, trying to figure out what I was...and with no cover scent. I was lucky enough to have accomplices there to observe the whole thing. That big male didn't spook and leave either.

That one occurrence suggested anything can happen with coyotes.

If a coyote hits a cover scent cone before hitting the human scent, he may stop, he may advance, he might even piss his pants and leave Dodge. This would be a case of having the cover scent separated by distance from the caller on a sponge or something, and not being worn. The idea would be for a coyote to go down wind, catch the cover scent cone and stop without detecting human scent.

Would a coyote continue down wind to cover his bases? Probably not, but I bet some would.

I don't use cover scents but I know there are rare occurrences that a coyote will continue to advance because of it. They're so few between I don't see it as worth my trouble.

Brad

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 11, 2005, 08:50 PM:

Wow I go out to a movie and come back to a great discussion in progress. I want to take more time to think about what some are saying and respond as best I can, probably tomorrow morning.

Let me throw out one bone for you though. Does the coyote who smells the "mist" coyote respond because he is responding to a curiosity or territorial instinct? Does his desire to run off another coyote in his territory override his fear of the human smell that is present, if the statements that he can not be fooled are accurate?

I am aware that many a coyote has died trying to threaten Hog Dogs with humans in plain sight. Is this the phenomenom that would make a coyote come in to a misting so much more successfully.

For the record I have never believed that simple urine of any kind on it's own will eliminate the human odor. It is obvious that Leonards mist does something benefitial (mask or diminish?)so what is it?

[ September 12, 2005, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 12, 2005, 12:00 AM:

It seems to confuse the coyote. He circles downwind for some reason? Maybe suspicion, maybe he is timid, who knows the reason?

But, if you are sending enough mist down wind, as I have said many times, you can actually see this stuff floating downstream and bumping into trees and brush and grass; in short coating everything with real liquid molecules, not just an odor from a bottle.

This is strong powerful scent, not a casual smell wafting in the breeze. It is a sensation that grabs a coyote by the throat, (figuratively speaking) and he has to check up, even for the briefest moment and blink and stare in the direction of the source. They do this, no argument. It's not going to happen if you don't spray until you determine that he is going downwind and break out the bottle for a couple of squirts. Done correctly, you should squirt a couple shots with every other 360º turn of the light, the whole stand, whether you think you are going to need it or not. Spot light in one hand and the spray in the other, because night hunting is the very best situation for misting, it is much more effective at night than daylight hunting.

I have read here that it's too much bother for just a couple extra animals. That's up to you. But it should be good for perhaps a couple extra animals per night; the difference between 5 and 7, or 8 and 10. Maybe the difference between 1 and three? Who needs that, right? Yeah, I do!

As I have said many times, this seems to be a difficult concept to grasp for some people, and others maybe do not give it a fair chance?

Danny is such a whimp. He wrote previously in this thread that he doesn't know anything about it and that's absurd. I will bet that he has used mist for at least twenty-five years, minimum! Everyone he knows, uses mist. Everyone in every club I have belonged to, uses mist. The practice apparently has not caught on too far east of us? Probably because they have not witnessed the results which are truly a matter of, seeing is believing.

But, it costs me nothing, if nobody believes it, or tries it, or discounts it. There are, as I said, thousands of night hunters here on the west coast that will shake their heads and smile.

You guys want to conceed 10%, 15% of your animals, that's fine by me. Just let me clarify one thing. Misting is, by far, a lot more effective while night hunting because so many more coyotes circle on you, *at night than on day stands.

Good hunting. LB

edit *ask me why?

[ September 12, 2005, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 12, 2005, 12:18 AM:

TR,i don't think any of us would set on a stand long enough for a good mist to dissapate.Skunk,fox,coyote and other animal urins will last for many hours and some for days and even weeks.Its at its strongest when you first put it down but it can last for days after you left.

Gerald,my answere to TR,brings a question to mind.Lets say we find a good stand location.We are sure coyotes are using the area,so we put down mist and no coyotes show up that day.We know this stand has to be good so we return a few days later.In the time period that we were gone the coyotes has found our misting spot.We go back and re mist and set down.Since the coyotes already know that smell is there,wouldn't they pick you right out of it?What i'm getting at,the scent would no longer work because they know that smell is there.

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 12, 2005, 04:25 AM:

In an effort to not beat a dead horse too long I am not going to add anymore about coverscents per say but I am interested in a couple of other concepts including the misting concept.

I wonder if misting a Skunk odor would be useful? If I could devise a bottle that mixed the two components of Tex's Skunk Coverscent as I sprayed, it might lay down a pretty good cover for me along with some coyote urine as well. Combine that with all of the soaps, clothes washes and powders from Hunter Specialties and I might be invisible to the coyote....and then probably still miss him with my shooting ability or lack there of. [Wink]

I have a friend that swears by this use of odors. I have not tried it but he swears that it is a killer for coyote hunting. It involves a practice mentioned earlier as it pertains to a scent cone.

He takes a 5 gallon bucket of the afterbirth material from a newborn calf and places a sizable portion of it to the right or left of his calling position on the downwind side. Maybe about 50 feet either way and then calls from the middle. It is his contention that when the coyote hits the first waft of this highly protien rich material they will turn to approach that smell totally stopping any attempt to get directly downwind of where the sound is coming from.

This what I had in mind when I catagorized a smell as an attractant. Any of you ever tried for that effect with this or any other smell? Maybe a dead rabbit would work?

[ September 12, 2005, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 12, 2005, 08:37 AM:

Gerald,
If you want to see some territorial responses, with reaction to dogs, you need my new video. Or ask one of these guys that has their copy.

On another note, as far as attraction. I have trapped alot and venture to guess that many others on here have also. Some of the long distance calls that I use (like O'Gormans LDC) is quite possibly the rankest smelling stuff ever, and on snow I have never seen it pull a coyote in more than about 50 yards from the downwind. It seems like if they are much farther than that, they just blow on by. I'm sure there are cases of it pulling them farther, but I haven't seen it. I would venture though, that if you were to mix a little LDC in with your thinned urine, it may help the misting process.

Jay,
I stand by my previous post and always will. There is no ALWAYS and NEVER with coyotes. I would have to say "they usually stop, they usually do." LOL!

[ September 12, 2005, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 12, 2005, 11:26 AM:

As far as mixing the type of "mist" that I use, because I go to the trouble of filtering it, to keep the sprayer from clogging, I would be reluctant to mix with lure, and also from a storage standpoint. The way I make this stuff up, it is about 75% rabbit and 25% coyote; and then I filter it and cut it in half with water. It's good for next season, if you have any left over.

Now, I have seen some people use skunk PEE, rather than essence, that and (I kid you not) bottled clam juice seems to work very well for my purpose. I can't really put a label on it, cover or attractant or curosity scent; maybe a little of all three?

Just so long as I get a shot, that's all I ask.

BTW, somebody asked about running shots. That's a last desperate measure, at close range. People that bang away at moving animals, in the dark are wasting their time. (excepting shotgun opportunities)

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 12, 2005, 12:33 PM:

Interesting discussion.

When I first started callin, 2-yrs ago. I took along a bottle of [Red Fox urin] spray. Did I believe it would "cover my scent"...Nope.

I thought if a young coyote shown up, that never smelled [human] the urin might "drop his guard" & draw him in.

As for "covering" your scent. IMO, you'd have to be [encased] in a Class-A Hazmat suit, ie;[fully encapsulating]. To fully conceal your scent.

We have a 10yr old German Shephard. Three yrs ago, he keep scenting a [small-focal] area on my wife's chest. A couple of months later, a lump appeared [Breast Cancer]. He did this again, 1 1/2yrs ago,[Breast Cancer]again.

IMO, canines whom have "scented a human" can at a minimum, pick [PPM]part-per-million, of human scent out of air.

The human body is constantly emitting/shedding
"vapors" & "chuncks" ie; sweat, skin-cells, hair, ect.

So does "misting help" I say yah, sometimes. Depends on the coyote. But I quit taking my urin along [Wink]

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 12, 2005, 01:21 PM:

Hey Cal I would love to see your video. I love watching that kind of action. Email me how I can buy one and I'll get a check in the mail.

2dogs, your comment about how good a dogs nose is, is interesting. My friend Tex, I mentioned earlier was a Phd in Chemistry and his specialty was that very aspect of study. He could isolate and identify down to 3 parts per million. If my memory serves me good I think Texas A&M had studied deer piss down to three parts per million and could not isolate the pheromone present in a does's estrus urine. That fact leads me to disbelieve any companies claim of 100 % pheromone for Doe in Heat products. I do not anybody even knows what the pheromone is yet.

If a dogs is at 1 part per million, then maybe the deer is at two or right there with the dog. Interesting.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on September 12, 2005, 02:15 PM:

There might be some merit if a guy was to use alot.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:E4fkZhPfWBUJ:www.vetmed.auburn.edu/ibds/pdf/extraneous_odors.pdf+dog+ability+to+smell+in+ppm&hl=en

Dennis

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 12, 2005, 02:22 PM:

There are a lot of things that might not be too well understood about scent. All well and good, one or two parts per million, but look at sharks and especially salmon, returning to the stream where they were hatched three years later, by smell. Now, that is amazing.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 12, 2005, 02:50 PM:

Another stick, in the cogs of understanding.

Dad had a Walker hound [Pokey], heckuva trail hound. He could pick up a coyote's scent on a very old[hrs] track in the snow, quite often.

Except when the humidity was high & it was windy out. Then ya coulda hit'em with a [wet-coyote]. Et, He wouldn't of known, what it was.

I wonder [which] a canine "picks-up" or "decifers" more readily....vapor's or partical's [Confused]

.

I'm thinking, it depends on [ppm] of either. With humidity & wind speed, thrown into the mix.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 12, 2005, 04:16 PM:

Amazing how fast this place can go from 'frat boy nonsense' to serious. Part of the charm around here, I think.

Got out this a.m. for a few hours of calling. Archery deer, bear & cougar are open. Set up facing into a very slight breeze. The problem was, every few minutes the very slight breeze would go dead calm and then the air would ooze back 180 degrees for a short while until the very slight breeze would return.
About 20 minutes into the stand, while the breeze was in my favor, I had a deer at aprox. 200 yards start snorting.
This is a case where I think that cover scent and/or misting could have been useful. The deer wasn't getting enough of my scent to spook but it was getting enough that it wouldn't come in.
So.....who sales "Fawn in Distress Urine"??

[ September 12, 2005, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 12, 2005, 10:15 PM:

A 10 - 15% increase of zero, is still zero. [Razz]

Magic mist cannot create coyotes where there are none.

Krusty

[ September 12, 2005, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 13, 2005, 10:42 AM:

Krusty,
Can you ride your bike over to other side of the mountain? I hear the coyotes are thick as fleas over there.

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 13, 2005, 12:18 PM:

Rich,

I have even gotten in a truck and gone over the mountains, lots of times.

Everyone else heard that too.

Krusty

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 15, 2005, 07:07 AM:

quote:
edit *ask me why?

Leonard, no one else has, so I will.

Why?

Posted by pup (Member # 90) on September 15, 2005, 09:11 AM:

I was also sold on Leonard's Magic Mist from Higgins. I THINK that it has helped "confuse" a few coyotes that I have had in. My first encounter with a coyote using the mist the coyote came in and sat downwind of me. I have had several since then "stay" around longer than what a coyote would had I not. I have had a couple turn and bolt just a soon as they hit the cone. I'm guessing that Always and Never thing. Despite my partners bitchin I always carry and use it, If it will keep just that one in front of the camera a little longer.

just my penny

later pup

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 15, 2005, 09:48 AM:

Misting is, by far, a lot more effective while night hunting because so many more coyotes circle on you, *at night than on day stands.

Good hunting. LB

edit *ask me why?

[*]a coyote uses three senses as he approaches your stand, in the day time. Sight, hearing and eventually, smell.

At night, he cannot see, but he can hear, so he has a stronger incentive to get into a position where he can SMELL you.

Therefore, a copyote will be much more likely to satisfy at least one more of his senses, when he has no visual clues. It is also probable that he starts to circle further out, (if) he has decided against a direct approach.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 16, 2005, 10:48 PM:

Yesterday my cousin got back from Montana.He got back here in Pa.around noon time and came over to my place.He asked me to ride up to wall mart with him to buy a few things.I told him yes i will ride up with you'i got nothing to do'.We go into Wall Mart and i ask him what he was looking for.He looks at me and said,a water bottle,Phone card,and a bottle of vaseline...Vaseline!..Whats he want with vaseline?..I thought i better not ask because i might not want to know...We get back,he drops me off and he goes home..I couldn't help but try to figure out what the vaseline was for...Shine his bald head?Naw can't be that..He don't own a goat so thats out..Whats the vaseline for? i wonder..Well he showed up this morning and it was a relief to find out why he bought the vaseline.(all those bad thoughts,"shame on me") He asked me for a small bottle and i asked him,"what for?"..He said he mixed vaseline and pure skunk essence for cover up smell..He said you put some on a stick and smear it on trees,bushes,or what ever you can around you..He said he learned about it while in Montana calling coyotes and it works great...I guess there is always something different to use vaseline for [Smile]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 17, 2005, 05:08 AM:

Melvin,

I went callin, with a guy last fall. He, [previously]went squirrel hunting with another guy once. They both came upon a [sheep] with it's head stuck in a wire fence [Big Grin]

.

Anyway were at the 1st farm. As were walking through the farm yard[BTW, he had previously, told me the story of the caught sheep].

Were walking...walking. Then we hear a BAaaWah. We pause....Hmmm, sounds like a goat in distress. We clear a little hill. Low-en-behold. A goat with it's head/horns caught through a pig-wire fence [Eek!]

.

What are the odds.

goat-helper dogs

[ September 17, 2005, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]

Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 17, 2005, 06:40 AM:

What have a story about vaseline and one about goats with their heads stuck in a fence got to do with one another?

I thought you were going to tell us an aggie joke or something. [Big Grin]

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on September 17, 2005, 06:59 AM:

2Dogs

goat-helper dogs

I got a chuckle out of that one! One hell of a screen name.

Dennis

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 17, 2005, 05:08 PM:

Changing back, from our little hoofed friends to coyotes.

Human scent, as detected by a canine. IMO, would be like a scented candle [burning] being detected by a human. Probably, even stronger to coyotes.

BTW, anyone know how many [ppm], a human can detect?

Heck, sometimes I can [scent myself]. Not on purpose mind you...LOL! [Big Grin]

glandular-dogs [Wink]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0