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Author
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Topic: a ? for you "pampass know-it-alls"
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Kiyiyotie
PAKMAN
Member # 574
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posted October 20, 2005 11:26 AM
At the risk of sounding like a rookie, I’ve got a question…well really a situational type of thing…for you more experienced guys. (And just for the record, I’m actually not a rookie. I’ve been calling for several years, but don’t have near the experience as many of you).
Probably the best way to “ask” this is just give a real life scenario – My buddy and I went calling the other night. The moon was bright and we usually don’t do too good on nights like that, but we went anyway wanting to beat the odds. We set up in the shadows overlooking field where we had killed coyotes before. This area usually has its share.
We ran two lights at low power while I blew a hand call, rabbit in distress. After 35 minutes of nothing, we decided to pack it up… But my buddy hears an approaching train on the tracks that are about 2 miles away and we decided to stay put to listen for howls triggered by the train, something we often do.
Sure enough, in the woods less than 1/2 mile to our north a group starts howling, and then in the woods we were facing, no more than 1/4 mile to our east, another group starts in, and then we also hear a loner in the mix, he’s within 1/4 mile too.
Disgusted that we couldn’t get them to show earlier, we stayed another 30 minutes trying to get something called in - nothing.
Nothing frustrates me more than KNOWING there are coyotes fairly close and not being able to get them called in. This seems to be happening more frequently in my neck of the woods (east of the Big Muddy), where we will hear coyotes and no matter what, they will not come out of cover or close the gap.
What is your take on the situation above? What’s your take when you just flat know that they haven’t seen you or winded you and they howl but won’t come in? What’s your take in general on hunting on nights of bright moonlight?
Posts: 4 | From: east | Registered: Feb 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted October 20, 2005 12:22 PM
In that situation I would put the distress call away and get out the howler. Under no circumstances would I continue to blow a particular distress call for an hour... I'd change sounds (Even if all distress) frequently.
Not a big night hunter myself, but that's my 02 on calling eastern coyotes under the moon or sun.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted October 20, 2005 12:54 PM
Coyotes to the north, and coyotes to the east. Is the field you are hunting a teritorial boarder that neither group is willing to cross?
How hard have they been hunted before? Maybe they have "been there and done that" and not liked it all that much? In other words, they have heard the dying rabbit blues before.
With two groups howing, and a loner lets off a howl, I might have gone to a pup distess then, to make them think that loner got one of the kids.
Might not have worked, but that's what I would have done.
I am curious if they kept howling after the train went by, and if you were able to figure out what kind of howls they were? And the loner, did he howl after that too?
AL
THO Game Calls
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Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Kiyiyotie
PAKMAN
Member # 574
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posted October 20, 2005 01:38 PM
In answer to your questions about the specific situation that I told about:
I did start howling along with them while the train was going by. Then waited. When nothing happened in several minutes. I let go another lone, invitation type howl and then waited. Nothing. I then tried pup in distress - waited - nothing. At the end (out of frustration) I went back to rabbit in distress - nothing - then I left.
To my knowledge, they are not hunted hard in this area. I don't know of anybody else coyote hunting here. I've had exclusive permission for a few years.
The howls were what I'd call the typical group response howls to a stimulus such as a siren, train whistle, etc. After the train passed out of earshot, all was silent.
the loner may have actually been part of the second group, but slightly separated. he was fairly close to the "east group" but I could tell he wasn't right there with them.
While I sincerely do appreciate the replies, I really just told that scenario as an example of what happens more and more often, which is this - calling for a while with no coyotes showing up and then only to have them start howling fairly close by, usually from cover.
Many times the howling isn't incited by me, but by another source - coonhounds in the distance, siren, train, or a very distant group of coyotes getting the closer ones going. And it's not the "you're busted" type of howls - Just group howls.
I kill coyotes fairly regularly, but this kind of situation has always perplexed and frustrated me and, like I said earlier, seems to happen more and more.
I just wanted to know what you guys do when they start group howling close by, but won't come in.
I've wondered that if I would just sit there and wait, maybe up to an hour or more after their howling, if they would eventually show up. ??
OR - I've thought about working my toward them. ??
OR - leaving the area and coming back at them from the opposite direction. ??
Or - maybe they just are not going to respond to calling, period. ??
i just don't know.
When in these situations, nothing I've tried (with the exception of maybe once or twice) has worked.
[ October 20, 2005, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Kiyiyotie ]
Posts: 4 | From: east | Registered: Feb 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted October 20, 2005 01:54 PM
I'd try a Racoon squaller, as coyote hate'em. Make it sound frantic, like a fight is going on.
BTW, watch out for charging coon ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
Secondly, They feed heavily on pheasants & tree squirrel, in the central states. Might try either of those calls. I'd make them sound "distressed" as well.
In Marshall County,Iowa. The coyotes are hard on both the pheasants & coon. As their pop's are diminishing.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted October 20, 2005 03:43 PM
Kiyiyotie,
I would like to ask you a couple of questions if you don't mind. What state are you calling in? How often do you call that particular area? It sounds like maybe you are dealing with educated coyotes. I call my coyotes in daytime, but have experienced the group yip howling followed by agonizing silence on an occassion or three myself. As you know, calling coyotes is kinda like fishing. Sometimes they bite and sometimes they don't. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted October 20, 2005 04:20 PM
I really liked the last sentence in the post that Rich put forth - that's why they call it hunting and not "killing", or fishing and not "catching".
I know that sounds pretty simplistic and there are plenty of people who know more than I about this sport. I've hunted too many years for too many different kinds of animals to not realize that there are just days when they will not come in to a call. Ducks, geese, coyotes, whatever. It happens.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted October 20, 2005 05:12 PM
Those two lights probably made them nervous.
I'd only use one light when night calling. If using electronics let the light man work the call, the shooter works the hand calls.
The light needs to be held steady. If the shooter is bouncing his light around or turning it off to get into position to shoot, he's going to spook the coyotes.
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Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 20, 2005 09:38 PM
There is nothing odd or out of the ordinary at all with that situation. Coyotes don’t come to call some times and that is just the way it is period. With different weather or a different season or a different time of the night may have produced something but you have to realize that there will only be a percentage of coyotes that will respond to your call no matter what the situation is. Some days are better than others but that is where persistence comes in. Keep on them and you will eventually pick up a coyote or two out of the groups. Maybe more?
Most people just have blank stands and don’t hear the coyotes that they are calling to. It is very discouraging to here coyotes all around you and not get a response but you would be very surprised how many coyotes do not respond to calls that have the opportunity. Don’t play the blame game, just be persistent and try it on a better night. Something will give and you will have success. You will never know for sure why the coyotes did not respond on that night so don’t convince yourself that you did this or that wrong because it may have been all right under different circumstances. I am sure you have had success in the past doing exactly what you did that night. Just do something different with these coyotes the next time.
The important thing is that you know that there are coyotes there. The fun part now is figuring out how to trick them.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted October 20, 2005 10:57 PM
Q is right on here. Sometime they just dont respond, diffrent reasons I gess, weather, location, diffrent things.
Every once in awhile I will get on a group that does that to me. Sometimes I can work around them and get a responce and sometimes they just are not willing to work.
One thing to try. I would of re located on them. If I had a good idea were they were and the wind would of let me move close to them then I would of closed the gap between me and them. After I moved I would of gave them a couple puppy howls and an adult howl and went right strait to the puppy destress and wines and crys. If that didnt work I would of backed out and saved them for another day.
If you dont know the area were they were very well it might be worth a look to see what kind of area you have in there were they were at. Find out were thay are holing up and change up your set up a little bit on them. Change up your calling sounds as well and give them a fresh sound or two. The change of set up maybe the key.Or there maybe a good daytime set up in there as well. But you never know you may go back to the same spot and they run over you. You just dont know what they are thinking.
I only run one light as well. And dont hunt full moon or bright nights much. But sometimes you just got to hunt when you get the time, and take what ever you get full moon or not.
Brent
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Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted October 21, 2005 03:05 AM
I am not an expert but a few good tips have been raised.First,use that rabbit in distress sparingly.I would probably have tried to get them to answer with a lone howl.Since you were able to locate them intially,if they wouldn`t answer a lone howl I would have moved closer to them and setup a good stand if the wind would allow it and tried a lone howl once more followed by a rabbit squall 3 or 4 minutes later.Thats where I would have waited a little while to see if anything was gonna move in.If no takers tried a few agressive barks followed shortly by an a challenge bark.If nothing then giving it 10 or 15 minutes I would`ve packed it up and went to find another stand.Sometimes they just do not want to play and won`t come in.If you got a response on a challenge bark , thats when I`d kick in the talking.If he responds I would respond and taunt him.If he responds pissed off,you respond pissed off.Keep on him and listen for the sound of him closing distance on you..It is still touch and go and you can`t guarantee they`ll show but that would`ve been my strategy.. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted October 21, 2005 04:19 AM
With the evolution of this story I'd change my advice... after all that unsuccesful howling and distress calling I'd pack it up and go to the house.
I know where I'd be sitting at daylight though.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted October 21, 2005 06:23 AM
I don't know what I would've done in that situation, but I agree with Q on the topic. I do all my calling the day time, in very open country, and if you think it sucks to hear coyotes around you that won't come in, I can assure you it sucks worse to be able to see them and not get them to come in!!
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Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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